Luckitty Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 5 hours ago, Kukai said: Neither would many other countries today which were formed on the basis of past colonial conquests. But to blame the west solely for the Israeli government's action is taking responsibility away from the actions of both Israel and Hamas. By your logic, every country that has a colonial past should be considered a terrorist organisation which is frankly ridiculous. You might have some echo chamber online spaces that agree with that but to the average citizen you sound insane. And to reiterate my past point, two things can be true at the same time! You can argue Hamas is a resistant group but it's also a terrorist group. Who said you can't be critical of terrorist sympathisers and anti-semites and also have empathy for what's happening in Palestine? Tired of this tribal mentality social media has forced on you lot. The fact that you're trying to justify colonialism, genocide, occupation, ethnic cleansing you're clearly a * zionist so i won't waste more time replying to you, and if i said what i really wanted about you i would get banned so lemme ignore you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckitty Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 4 hours ago, Bosque said: According to people who think that - indiscriminately raping male and female Jewish civilians - shooting civilians at point blank range and executing them with no mercy as they try to flee and beg for their lives - abducting literal babies and toddlers across international state lines - calling on everyone around the globe to murder Jews (not Israelis) are considered terrorist activities. If you don't think so, that's a reflection of your own character. Dont forget all the war crimes they have committed in Gaza against the same Palestinians you guys pretend to care about: - Executing dozens of members of a different political party on the street, in front of mosques and children, and parading their bodies through the streets - shooting rockets from hospitals, schools, apartment buildings and graveyards (such as the rocket they fired at Al Ahli hospital killing 500 of their own people in one fell swoop) - In general, shooting 90% of their rockets at their own territory and people, according to statements by Mahmoud Abbas (just yesterday, they bombed their own school Al Qarara killing several Palestinians) - torturing, abducting and raping Palestinians who so much as make a social media post lightly criticizing Hamas - Beheading openly gay Palestinians (sometimes after abducting them for a foreign country) and throwing them off the roof - openly begging people to martyr themselves and become human shields, promising them that martyring themselves in the name of killing Jews is the highest possible honor they could achieve in life (they tell this to elementary schoolchildren too) anyone who pretends to be pro Palestinian but carries water for Hamas and wants them to continue their brutal terroristic rule over Palestinians cannot be taken seriously. go away zionist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Online people trying to whitewash Kamala's image with brat & coconut memes and laughing videos, as if things like this don't prove she would continue funding the Israeli genocide of the Palestinian people if she were to be elected, just like the Biden administration has been doing (and the Trump one too if he comes back). I wonder if it'll ever come to a wide-spread acceptance that there's no "good" or "evil" in these presidential elections and that no candidate or president should be idolized, revered or spoken up for. Both sites are rotten, vile and warmongering and the choice only comes down to which one is less terrible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverbank Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Yeah Kamala should issue a statement about how great it is to burn American flags so she can please terminally online activists and win all 50 states at the same time 3 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kukai Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 6 hours ago, Luckitty said: The fact that you're trying to justify colonialism, genocide, occupation, ethnic cleansing you're clearly a * zionist so i won't waste more time replying to you, and if i said what i really wanted about you i would get banned so lemme ignore you You are really EVERYTHING wrong with online activism today. I tried to be polite with you but you are beyond reasoning with. So much of the soil we stand on today is a result of colonialism. Acknowledging the reality of that and the nuances of our own political history does not justify sympathising with terrorists who use their own civilians as meat shields. Good luck winning support with your terrorist sympathising ideas. Believe you me, if you've ever gone out canvassing and spoke to members of the public, you will be shocked to realise most people do not support Hamas. The fact that you are unable to explore nuance in your thinking that YES you can be critical of Israel's regime AND Hamas, is actually very disturbing and says more about you than me. 10 hours ago, Headlock said: Wait until you find out who created the state of Israel Wait till you find out Israel will do what it wants independent of its western's allies. There's a reason why both Netanyahu and Putin want Trump to win again. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Communion Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 27 minutes ago, Kukai said: Wait till you find out Israel will do what it wants independent of its western's allies. How does this justify the reality of giving Israel weapons? What separates this logic from Nazi Germany? Should the world have joined in the slaughtering of Jews and given Germany the weapons to quicken the process because the Germans were super committed to it? Why are my tax dollars blowing up toddlers' arms and legs? 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headlock Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 hour ago, Kukai said: Wait till you find out Israel will do what it wants independent of its western's allies. There's a reason why both Netanyahu and Putin want Trump to win again. Wait till you find out who funds Israel to "do what ever it wants" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgos Groove Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 hour ago, Kukai said: Wait till you find out Israel will do what it wants independent of its western's allies. Not the US puppet state getting brave. Sweetie, if that "country" could do it all on their own, their PM wouldn't go on a yearly begging trip across the West. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kukai Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 hour ago, Communion said: How does this justify the reality of giving Israel weapons? What separates this logic from Nazi Germany? Should the world have joined in the slaughtering of Jews and given Germany the weapons to quicken the process because the Germans were super committed to it? Why are my tax dollars blowing up toddlers' arms and legs? In my previous post I said the US should cease funding for Israel. You're being purposefully obtuse here with an emotionally charged post instead of being logical. I am all for divestment and funding pauses. But for whatever reason Israel seems to not care about the backlash from the left in the west because people on the right, specifically republicans, support Israel unconditionally. A lot of you are blaming Kamala for criticising terrorist sympathising protestors while she's running in this election and is up against Trump. 30 minutes ago, Headlock said: Wait till you find out who funds Israel to "do what ever it wants" 11 minutes ago, Virgos Groove said: Not the US puppet state getting brave. Sweetie, if that "country" could do it all on their own, their PM wouldn't go on a yearly begging trip across the West. Western allies have been funding Israel for decades. You're not seriously comparing Hamas' military capacity with Israel's right? Hamas was never going to win in this conflict. Their leaders are sitting in a nice hotel right now saying everything is going the way they wanted while innocent Palestinians are getting slaughtered while their own children are protected. Some of you sympathising with terrorists in your online bubbles don't realise what is at stake here in this election. Kamala's response was appropriate. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Communion Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 8 minutes ago, Kukai said: Some of you sympathising with terrorists Trying to frame Palestinian resistance as "rich men in hotels" when all Palestinian political movements are aligned with Hamas, whether it be Fatah or the Marxist militia groups, is why you're getting pushback because this idea that you can somehow remove yourself as above realities of the genocide because you find Hamas uncouth is Western privilege. There's a minimum Kamala must meet in concrete actions. She is not entitled to votes if she endorses genocide. This is not complex. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kukai Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) 3 hours ago, Communion said: Trying to frame Palestinian resistance as "rich men in hotels" when all Palestinian political movements are aligned with Hamas, whether it be Fatah or the Marxist militia groups, is why you're getting pushback because this idea that you can somehow remove yourself as above realities of the genocide because you find Hamas uncouth is Western privilege. There's a minimum Kamala must meet in concrete actions. She is not entitled to votes if she endorses genocide. This is not complex. There are many Palestinians and supporters of the cause who disagree fundamentally with Hamas and these types of protest. People on the left trying to align with this group will never get political support across the left-wing gamut in western countries. Your inability to understand why these types of protest could cause alienation is an indictment of online activism in general. And that is privilege: making anti-semitic comments, aligning with a terrorist group, burning the country's flag, while enjoying the western privilege of being able to do those things and not facing consequences, that is true western privilege. I've already said this but go out canvassing and you will find out my sentiments are shared with a lot of people on the electorate. Most left-wing and centrist voters want a ceasefire, to stop funding wars abroad, but you will never win their support by aligning with groups like Hamas. I'm thinking about the political future and that is what Kamala represents. You can be critical of her and put pressure on her but she is vastly different from Trump. Edited July 26 by Kukai 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Communion Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 4 minutes ago, Kukai said: There are many Palestinians Again, all political parties within Palestine align with Hamas. Hamas and October 7th receive support from a majority of Palestinians. Instead of acknowledging this fact and recognizing that Israel's genocide is so brutal in eclipsing anything Hamas could or has ever done is why Hamas is being supported by the majority of Palestinians, you're trying to work backwards from a place of validating Israel's genocide and think "Hamas are bad" is somehow gonna get you there. Odd how you feel entitled to support Kamala as the lesser evil to Trump yet refuse to acknowledge that the majority of Palestinians view Hamas as the lesser evil to Israel. Harm reduction for we but not thee? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kukai Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Just now, Communion said: Again, all political parties within Palestine align with Hamas. Hamas and October 7th receive support from a majority of Palestinians. Instead of acknowledging this fact and recognizing that Israel's genocide is so brutal in eclipsing anything Hamas could or has ever done is why Hamas is being supported by the majority of Palestinians, you're trying to work backwards from a place of validating Israel's genocide and think "Hamas are bad" is somehow gonna get you there. Odd how you feel entitled to support Kamala as the lesser evil to Trump yet refuse to acknowledge that the majority of Palestinians view Hamas as the lesser evil to Israel. Harm reduction for we but not thee? I'm not sure those people who've had their children killed during the conflict are 100% pro Hamas. There are nuances to this that go beyond a poll and your refusal to acknowledge that is why this conversation is just going round in circles. You've spent most of your posts here trying to paint the narrative that anyone opposing Hamas is a supporter of Israel which is regressive and childish. Like I said this is truly a representative example of why online activism is so toxic. In politics, you make changes in policy by gathering unified support not by causing a corrosive dividing line all the while pontificating on moral issues. The biggest difference here is America has the impact to make changes on a wide scale. If you can't see why making anti-semiotic comments would cause division, it probably explains why you're on a pop music forum trying to get a gotcha moment. That's more on you than it's on me. Trump is the biggest threat here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Communion Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 minute ago, Kukai said: I'm not sure those people who've had their children killed during the conflict are 100% pro Hamas. Palestinian children are not dying due to a conflict. They're dying due to an apartheid Jewish supremacist settler-colonial state called Israel inflicting genocide and bombing them to death. Why are you working so hard to defend both Israel and American politicians? "This is why online activism is toxic". You're literally being linked to Palestinians across the spectrum not supporting Kamala or viewing her answers as good enough. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kukai Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) 2 hours ago, Communion said: Palestinian children are not dying due to a conflict. They're dying due to an apartheid Jewish supremacist settler-colonial state called Israel inflicting genocide and bombing them to death. Why are you working so hard to defend both Israel and American politicians? "This is why online activism is toxic". You're literally being linked to Palestinians across the spectrum not supporting Kamala or viewing her answers as good enough. You're playing with semantics here in bad faith to push through your own narrative of painting opposers to these kinds of protestors as supporters of the Israeli government. You've proven my point once again on why your type of online activism is more about feeling good about yourself than actually pushing for pragmatic solutions. You make strawmans to avoid my points and to create fictitious narratives about what my stance is when I very clearly laid out how I feel about funding Israel. So you and others can pontificate about these issues but most of the people on the electorate will not sympathise with supporting Hamas or anti-semites. This was initially the point of my posts. You don't make change by not winning elections. Edited July 26 by Kukai 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesar Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 On 7/25/2024 at 5:08 PM, SeeingStars1515 said: I have self described myself as a left leaning Zionist, yes. I have stated multiple times that I disagree 100% with Netanyahu admin and there disproportionate response to Palestine and the annexing of any additional territory in the West Bank. I am a Zionist insomuch that I am an American. I didnt ask to be born in a country with a genocidal history . You can't be left-leaning Zionist. Centered for sure. But left is a overstatement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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