Into The Void Posted July 21 Posted July 21 2 hours ago, Thesedays said: Things that the US liberal accepts: celebs being silent on genocide. Politicians aiding genocide and literally sending billions to level a region full of civilians to the ground. Things the US liberal finds unacceptable: celebs not endorsing a Dem politician. The funniest thing is that, at the end of the day, Taylor Switt will obviously endorse Kamala. And then everyone will laud a billionaire woman who has said **** about genocide or any important social cause as the big progressive voice and democracy saver. Oh to be rich in the USA... you can be a multi-millionaire, you can be ostentatiously selfish, you can be silent and indifferent to the biggest human crimes in history... all you need to do is endorse a center-right candidate that will still defend your class interest and half of the braindead population will act as if you just did a great service to democracy and humankind and you're a wonderful person (while the other, even more stupid side will literally think you're a communist). Would u rather they endorse Trump? 1
Thesedays Posted July 21 Posted July 21 1 minute ago, Into The Void said: Would u rather they endorse Trump? Lol. Is that the only conclusion you could come up with after reading my post?
aesthetic bih Posted July 21 Posted July 21 Ariana riding the right side of history We forgive you! 2
Thesedays Posted July 21 Posted July 21 12 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said: Both uber haters and uber fans are annoying. OT: I honestly don't know how to feel in terms of endorsing her. On one hand I understand that she should be endorsed with an asterisk, but at the end of the day, 99% of celebrities don't really care about Palestine. If they do or say something it's likely gonna be because they feel it'll go down well with their fanbase, and to be honest, I'm so over celeb culture that as long as they don't support genocide I have stopped caring what they believe. Are they incredibly self-centered and don't really care because it doesn't affect them? Good enough. That's better than supporting Israel. That person is alright. It's not if these people supported Palestine something would change anyway. So it's just optics and I'm over it. I'm so over celeb culture in general. So I say, endorse Kamala, because the alternative is fascism and I don't think we can afford to argue about the minutia right now. I understand what you're saying, but I disagree on a few counts. Firstly, speaking out on Palestine is costly. I doubt people who don't care are doing it only for their fans to be happy. It's obviously not worth it financially to make that decision based solely on a small part of your fanbase. Secondly, public pressure is vital. Unfortunately, celebrities are one of the best bets for getting public support. That's not ideal, but the Hadids by themselves have done more to promote the humanization of palestineans than public organs and leftist politicians. You're right; celebrity culture is stupid and vacuous, and we should disengage from that, but while this is all true, it is also true that celebrity culture remains extremely strong. As for Ariana herself, I don't see anything to celebrate over the fact she supported Kamala. Also, I doubt this will move the needle in any way. But I do appreciate the fact she has been vocal, albeit in a really timid way, about Palestine, abortion rights, etc. 2
More Than A Melody Posted July 21 Posted July 21 16 minutes ago, Thesedays said: I understand what you're saying, but I disagree on a few counts. Firstly, speaking out on Palestine is costly. I doubt people who don't care are doing it only for their fans to be happy. It's obviously not worth it financially to make that decision based solely on a small part of your fanbase. Secondly, public pressure is vital. Unfortunately, celebrities are one of the best bets for getting public support. That's not ideal, but the Hadids by themselves have done more to promote the humanization of palestineans than public organs and leftist politicians. You're right; celebrity culture is stupid and vacuous, and we should disengage from that, but while this is all true, it is also true that celebrity culture remains extremely strong. As for Ariana herself, I don't see anything to celebrate over the fact she supported Kamala. Also, I doubt this will move the needle in any way. But I do appreciate the fact she has been vocal, albeit in a really timid way, about Palestine, abortion rights, etc. Nah, public pressure on celebrities is meaningless. Celebrities matter because of their influence on the GP. And the GP is majorly in favor of Palestine. Anyone Taylor Swift or Ariana Grande could influence has already been influenced twenty times over. It doesn't make a difference because the Palestine issue is about strategic geographic and geopolitical power and those in power do NOT CARE what the public wants. There were marches with half a million people in the streets in London and yet the party that has historically supported Palestine couldn't even call for a ceasefire. At some point y'all have got to face the music. There's nothing we can do, there's nothing anyone can do, there's nothing anyone can say to change this issue. The shift doesn't depend on us or on anything we can do. Does that mean do nothing? I mean, of f*cking course not. We must still try. But celebrities are one of the deadest of ends. Boycott actual corporations, who can actually sway the governmental position. Protest, march, organize, educate. And stop focusing on a bunch of artists who don't really give a damn and can't actually move the needle. It's wasted energy. Kamala vs Trump has to be spoken about in isolation to Palestine, because truth of the matter is that it's Bad vs Worse, so what's even the point? But Kamala vs Trump is the difference between a mild, lib government and a fascist one that will revoke every single right minorities have, and end every semblance of democracy. Only an idiot would be fence sitting this. I'm sorry. 1 1
If U Seek Amy Posted July 21 Posted July 21 56 minutes ago, Thesedays said: Darling, please engage your brain and understand the genocide right now is directly related to the US president. Being ignorant about the genocide going on is already bad but being stupid on top of that? I do believe it is related. But this is a thread to discuss Ariana's endorsement of Kamala. Not to go on a personal tirade about Israel/Palestine. Go to the thread for that 1
Thesedays Posted July 22 Posted July 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, More Than A Melody said: Nah, public pressure on celebrities is meaningless. Celebrities matter because of their influence on the GP. And the GP is majorly in favor of Palestine. Stopped reading right there. No, the majority is not in favor of Palestine. For some reason, you seem to be conflating the majority not being pro-Israel with being in favor of Palestine. Nah, the majority still dehumanizes Palestineans, thinks they're terrorists, that "both sides are wrong," etc. Quote Kamala vs Trump has to be spoken about in isolation to Palestine, because truth of the matter is that it's Bad vs Worse, so what's even the point? Lol seems like you're just bullshitting to justify the celebrities you stan for being terrible people. Which is literally the opposite of your first post, where you claimed you were trying to disengage from celebrity culture. Your points don't even make sense. I mean, the point is that, DESPITE THE PRESIDENCY, people should be using their voice and influence to oppose genocide, right? But the point you're defending above is that it is OK for celebs to be silent on a genocide, but they must speak out on the presidency because... apparently, their public instance suddenly and magically matters? How does that make any sense when you claim to care about Palestine? Quote And stop focusing on a bunch of artists who don't really give a damn and can't actually move the needle. It's wasted energy. Genocide: it's OK to fence sit. Quote But Kamala vs Trump is the difference between a mild, lib government and a fascist one that will revoke every single right minorities have, and end every semblance of democracy. Only an idiot would be fence sitting this. I'm sorry. No fence sitting allowed!!! Only idiots will fence sit! Sorry, seems like mental gymnastics from someone who cares more about not speaking badly about celebrities lol. Edited July 22 by Thesedays 1
Thesedays Posted July 22 Posted July 22 46 minutes ago, If U Seek Amy said: I do believe it is related. But this is a thread to discuss Ariana's endorsement of Kamala. Not to go on a personal tirade about Israel/Palestine. Go to the thread for that No
Thesedays Posted July 22 Posted July 22 5 hours ago, Thesedays said: I mean, good that Biden dropped out and all but why is endorsing Kamala something positive? Kamala is a pro-genocide politican whose positions are equal to Biden. Celebs endorsing her aren't virtuous in any way. Can any of the multiple people downvoting articulate with their whole chests why they think genocide support (with their tax money no less lol) is such a minor inconvenience that should not be mentioned? Would love to hear them openly coming out with what surely are not wildly racist and imperialistic takes!
More Than A Melody Posted July 22 Posted July 22 1 hour ago, Thesedays said: Stopped reading right there. No you didn't. You literally replied to my whole text. Do you know what words mean? Quote No, the majority is not in favor of Palestine. For some reason, you seem to be conflating the majority not being pro-Israel with being in favor of Palestine. Nah, the majority still dehumanizes Palestineans, thinks they're terrorists, that "both sides are wrong," etc. The majority of people who would be influenced by Ariana Grande (18-29 and leftist/liberal/democrat) already support Palestine. 47 vs 7% is overwhelmingly pro Palestine. Not sure what you're trying to argue here. Source. Quote Lol seems like you're just bullshitting to justify the celebrities you stan for being terrible people. Which is literally the opposite of your first post, where you claimed you were trying to disengage from celebrity culture. Your points don't even make sense. Lol seems like you're projecting your worshipping of celeb culture onto me. I don't look at their political ideology. I used to, until October 7 happened and I slowly started to realize that what celebs say in terms of politics is self-serving only. They don't care. They're rich, privileged, and out of touch. When you have someone like Hozier or Dua Lipa, who had been vocal supporters of Palestine in the past, both-sideing, you realize, oh, okay, so they're prioritizing not pissing off the wrong people. I'm not "trying" to disengage from celebrity culture. I already did. As long as they don't support genocide, which is a hard line for me, I'll support their art if I like it. I'm not playing this game of "my celeb is better than yours" anymore. I'm an adult with responsibilities. I care about MY position and MY ideology and MY politics. The celebs I support, I only support them in terms of their art. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand for you. My own personal relationship with celeb politics has no correlation with the actual impact of celeb politics. Celebs do have an impact in some issues, but they simply don't have an impact in others. Ariana is most likely pro choice (I haven't researched if she said anything, she probs did). If she posts about it, then that's... cool. But is she gonna change the fact that a lot of red states have an abortion ban right now? Is her fanbase being influenced to be pro choice because of it? No, they likely already were. And to be clear, most of the US already is pro choice. And liberal women are overwhelmingly pro choice. Does celebrities tweeting or showing support to the pro choice movement change the fact that the Supreme Court voted like they voted? No. The Supreme Court clearly does not give a single f*ck what people want. So I think it's cool that they voice their opinion. I'm certainly not against it, but I think it's not going to change anything. Donations are obviously welcome and obviously helpful, but at the end of the day it's a band-aid in a bullet wound. Ironically, the same thing applies to gun control. Apply this to Israel-Palestine. Ariana supporting Palestine is certainly welcome. Does it materially change anything? No. Her audience is already overwhelmingly pro Palestine, as most polls show. And even if they weren't, their opinion is irrelevant because there are other interests at play (just like with abortion, just like with gun control) that overrule what the popular opinion is (and to be clear, popular opinion is not pro Palestine in general, popular opinion in Ariana's fanbase is). Quote I mean, the point is that, DESPITE THE PRESIDENCY, people should be using their voice and influence to oppose genocide, right? But the point you're defending above is that it is OK for celebs to be silent on a genocide, but they must speak out on the presidency because... apparently, their public instance suddenly and magically matters? I don't think it's okay or not okay for them to speak or not speak. Who made me the arbitrar of good and bad? As I said, I personally don't care. I don't look for celeb opinions before having my own. I'm not analyzing how good or bad it is. I'm analyzing what impact it has and how important it is. Two completely different things. You're talking morality, which is abstract and impossible to measure. I'm being pragmatic. I want Kamala to win because I spend a hell of a lot of time in the US and I'm a child if immigrants. On a non-personal basis, I also don't really fancy the idea of America becoming a fascist country (at least not unapologetically so). If Ariana Grande speaking helps, then I want her to speak. I don't think it's bad if she doesn't, but I appreciate that she did. I also appreciate her subtle nods towards Palestine, but I think it has way less impact in the outcome than her endorsing Kamala. Am I speaking a language other than English? I think I'm being very clear, but I can dumb it down even further. A celebrity endorsing a candidate and urging people to vote is a direct call to action with direct consequences. Statistics have shown that it does have an impact. People actually do register or go vote because a celebrity said so. Do I understand that? No, but it does have an impact. It's not up for debate. A celebrity endorsing an ideology, with no material call to action, such as "I'm pro choice" has little to no effect. Either because their audience already shares that ideology or because... there's nothing they can actually do about it. Do you get it now? I can try and draw you a map if you don't. Quote How does that make any sense when you claim to care about Palestine? I don't "claim" to care, dude. I realize you're new and you weren't here last year, but I spent a good couple of months dedicating hours of my day arguing back and forth with genocide supporters. You can look up my username and Palestine. I had to stop because some users here were REALLY getting on my nerves, but that didn't stop my actual, real-life activism. Perhaps turn off your device and realize that life is outside. Quote Genocide: it's OK to fence sit. No fence sitting allowed!!! Only idiots will fence sit! Your reading comprehension is atrocious. I'm literally saying that it's ridiculous for YOU to fence sit this election. This is outside the realm of celebritydom. I'm talking to YOU directly, acting politically engaged and then being like "well, they're both bad so." Specifically considering the fact that Kamala has actually been way "better" (read: less worse) for Palestine than Biden, let alone f*cking Trump. She even leaked to Politico that she didn't fully agree with Biden's politics regarding the war. She's still a zionist lmfao, but there isn't a single US politician with the slightest chance of winning the presidency that isn't (not even Bernie!!), so I'll take the softer stance over the wannabe dictator anyday. I'm sorry you can't wrap your head around this, but I'm arguing with a peer, you, not a celebrity! If I think what Ariana does is good or bad it has no impact on her because she's not reading my opinion on ATRL dot com. YOU ARE. Quote Sorry, seems like mental gymnastics from someone who cares more about not speaking badly about celebrities lol. I care about not CENTERING CELEBRITIES on this, because it serves no purpose and achieves nothing. The fact that you think you have moral highground shows your lack of understanding. Acting like you care about Palestine and then saying "both sides are equally bad" isn't mental gymnastics. It's mental olympics and you just won gold medal. 1
Bethenny Frankel Posted July 22 Posted July 22 taylor you better get on that private plane back to AMERICA and endorse kamala too
Marianah Adkins Posted July 22 Posted July 22 Nice one for Ari though not surprising given her family's democratic party background and her previous endorsements of Bernie Sanders. I'm laughing at the hypocrisy of certain users/fanbases here though whom for the last few months are spewing stuff about popstars needing to be non-political yet are now here eagerly waiting to brag about their fave's supposed impact. Says a lot about how ppl are just using Palestine/politics as some brownie points for stan wars. 1
Marianah Adkins Posted July 22 Posted July 22 (edited) I must say though, this sudden surge of calls for endorsements reminded me of an ill fated election campaign of a female presidential candidate in my country. Majority of my country's biggest celebrities endorsed her only to lose in an embarrassing landslide loss. This also applies to Hilary's situation in 2016. I hope ppl here are aware that celebrity endorsements are the least of Kamala's problems. If anything these endorsements are already a given. Her real issues are her messaging and marketability to Middle America and as long as this is left unresolved, it will be Hilary 2.0 all over again Edited July 22 by Marianah Adkins 1
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