single Katy Perry - "Lifetimes"

[Ramcoro]

4 minutes ago, Communion said:

It is arbitrary language because the nature of the cases filed were not criminal cases but civil suits. 

 

Any defense of Dr. Luke that starts with "well he has never been convicted of a crime" is dishonest because his victim was blocked from filing a criminal case due to the statue of limitations running out on the crime in question, in part due to documented threats of retaliation against Kesha for telling anyone the story about what happened that night.

 

Debating the nuance of legal language is one thing. @'ing someone like another user did and angrily yelling at them for downvoting a post that essentially calls Kesha a liar is something totally different and has no merit being engaged with.  No one is - or should - downvote people just expressing liking the song. But it's not a defense of "I just want to enjoy Katy's music!!" to suggest no one's allowed to downvote posts that include things as egregious like false claims such as "Dr. Luke was proven innocent in court".

No it's not honey. Go ask any lawyer. Go take a class or something.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence#:~:text=The presumption of innocence is,a judge or a jury).

 

Edit: I agree with you, it was a civil case. Like I said before, "guilty" is not something that occurs in civil cases. Even in civil cases, the plaintiff has the burden of proof. 

Edited July 21 by Ramcoro

[Mark Rih]

when is this generic excellence coming

[Communion]

27 minutes ago, Itz_Dani! said:

literally see you downvoting every post

Hmmm I wonder why I downvoted these posts. Let's re-read them.

 

Spoiler

 

5 hours ago, NothingIsReal said:

pretty sure there's a thread to speak about that matter appropriately 

instead of presenting it in a "gotcha" moment fashion that is spammed on every thread 

It's very transparent in the replies, turning a very serious matter into a "drag".

You're turning people off to a woman's valid story by the way you're all presenting it,

and doing Kesha a disservice. 

5 hours ago, TOKYO. said:

Doesnt matter bcuz its about the fact that its produced and written by her abuser. She only likes to mk it when it does gain her something..

6 hours ago, TOKYO. said:

Its the hypocrisy, when kesha is recently promoting Blow. A luke track.. kesha still wants to gain profit from her luke songs.. doesnt that say something. Also the fights between fanbases regarding woman need to STOP

13 hours ago, AcidPrince said:

So, if people bullied you cause you are gay. And you are bullying someone else, its ok then? I dont get it.

Katy, a WOMAN, gets bullied online by gays who are bullied all the time in real life (something thats NOT OK). 
in life, we need to try to be a good person. I didnt see this type of bullying against Nicki Minaj or Doja Cat. This is gross.

11 hours ago, halcyonday said:

And then the Gaga Kesha convo got public in 2018 and she knew that Kesha was spreading lies behind her back.  

11 hours ago, halcyonday said:

That's no "desperate" defending. Just pointing out facts that Kesha and Gaga were saying about Katy something that wasn't true, and also were calling her mean. God knows who else heard from them these lies. The difference is that Gaga came through and showed her love for Katy, unlike Kesha. Katy called Kesha her friend 7 years ago. It's clear she doesn't feel this way anymore. 

11 hours ago, Jarr1507 said:

I'm sorry but Dr. Luke was never found guilty. So I don't understand why you keep calling him a r*pist. And Katy doesn't owe Kesha anything. Also let's be clear that Kesha is using all this to her advantage, because if it weren't for Katy, Joyshit didn't even have 300k daily streams.

10 hours ago, Jarr1507 said:

"A woman's rape story" But at the same time she INVENTED that another woman had been raped by the same guy just to be able to win a case is not very morally accepted either. As Kesha herself said it, only God knows what happened that night. Katy has nothing to do with any of this and she is free to work with whoever she wants or should.

6 hours ago, Nashe said:

Also there no legal grounds to call Luke an abuser when they settled the case

and you can whine about it how much you want. Katy is working with an innocent man 

 

This Ish't the avenue to express if you think someone is unfairly downvoting posts, let alone @'ing another user over it. 

Edited July 21 by Communion

[frankgutz]

24 minutes ago, Ramcoro said:

Depending on who you mean by "they." I might agree with you. Lol 

 

I think we, ATLR community in general, are confusing criminal cases with civil cases. 

 

They settled a civil case. There was never a criminal case, because of statute of limitations, IIRC. Terms like "innocent" or "guilty" are for criminal cases. Civil cases do not determine guilt or innocence. They determine whether someone is responsible for damages. Regardless, it's not up to the respondent (Dr. Luke) to prove his no responsible. The burden of proof in a civil case is on the plaintiff (Kesha), similar to how the prosecution in a criminal case has to prove. The defendant/plaintiff does not have to prove their innocence. This is a GOOD thing because that could be impossible to prove your innocence when you are falsely accused or there is a misunderstanding (I am NOT saying that's what happened here, but we all know there are plenty of examples of that happening in the US criminal justice system). 

 

Let's forget Dr. Luke counter-sued for defamation, so in that case, Dr. Luke was the plaintiff who had the burden of proof and Kesha was the respondent. It's a good thing Kesha did not have to prove her innocence of defamation. Dr. Luke had to prove that and I believe a judge decided in Dr. Lukes's favor, IIRC. I am not sure of the details of the settlement, out-of-court settlements are not part of public record. Honestly, I'm guessing both signed a NDA or some agreement to not talk about considering Kesha has not spoken about it publicly, but I might be wrong.  

 

Anyways, back to the presumption of innocence, Dr. Luke is innocent until proven guilty. It may be a technicality due to the statute of limitations, and whether you like it or not or whether he did it or not, he is innocent until proven guilty. I hate sounding like his lawyer. I don't like the guy, I just like the music of one person who works with the guy. I say this as someone who graduated with poli sci and was pre-law, presumption of innocence is a good thing and is the cornerstone of a fair justice system.                

I get the stand of cuz "the law bla bla bla" and whatever, that doesnt remove the fact he spend a decade bleeding Kesha money & harrass her through court after the allegations + lots of artists has been spoken of how horrid human being he is like Pink, Bebe Rexha, Bonnie lmao

 

We dont care how much yall try to white washing him cuz they settled

[Life Savers]

The preview seems catchy.

[Mirrorcle]

Kats, why are you even feeding those roaches? they are gonna hate her no matter what and spewing hate rather than using those energy that's actually useful for the community.

You are just giving those insects what they want. Just scroll through and swish swish bish.

 

Im claiming this energy to lead a positive life.

[Ramcoro]

16 minutes ago, frankgutz said:

I get the stand of cuz "the law bla bla bla" and whatever, that doesnt remove the fact he spend a decade bleeding Kesha money & harrass her through court after the allegations + lots of artists has been spoken of how horrid human being he is like Pink, Bebe Rexha, Bonnie lmao

 

We dont care how much yall try to white washing him cuz they settled

FWIW, based on other artists like you mentioned, I don't think he is a good person. I also believe Katy can have a professional, working relationship with someone who is a bad person. I know have to work with shitty people and down right immoral people. I'm sure we all do and many our favs work with bad people in Hollywood.

Edited July 21 by Ramcoro

[Ramcoro]

2 minutes ago, Mirrorcle said:

Kats, why are you even feeding those roaches? they are gonna hate her no matter what and spewing hate rather than using those energy that's actually useful for the community.

You are just giving those insects what they want. Just scroll through and swish swish bish.

 

Im claiming this energy to lead a positive life.

I know it's my worst knee jerks. Ugh. 

[Mirrorcle]

10 minutes ago, Ramcoro said:

I know it's my worst knee jerks. Ugh. 

Its ok sis, we will get through this together and we should celebrate our mother giving us another amazing record. After this we have to wait for another 3-4 years to start a new era again. Dont let the roaches ruin our moment.

 

Edited July 21 by Mirrorcle

[Witnessed ET]

1 hour ago, Tistotal said:

This thread has 27 pages and nobody is discussing the song but the same 4 weeks old news.

 

basic and generic, but sounds better than woman's world, we kind of won

Yeah it's so weird. @ATRL Moderation Team we need you to do something about these off topic users who have set up residency in this thread. Thanks!

[Breathe On Moi]

32 minutes ago, Mark Rih said:

when is this generic excellence coming

like we're ready to bop wtf 

[Element]

Looks like I have some reading to do

[Jason's Song]

I already commented, but I want to bring some positive energy back to the front of the line.

 

SOOooooo anyway, I was listening to the layering of her vocals and I thought to myself, hold on a minute, and didn't they use Jade's vocal layering like this on the song Black Magic? 

 

(I mean not just her vocals, but the vocal layering style)

I really think this is a strong start and i'm excited for more. 

[Generation Braindead]

Should have been the lead or Nirvana. WW was just a mess of a choice. I'm disappointed because I was hoping for another California Gurls moment.

Edited July 21 by Generation Braindead

[Stunnah]

1 hour ago, Communion said:

Why wouldn't someone downvote a claim that Dr. Luke was exonerated in court? You now want no one to criticize Katy's decisions to work with Luke let alone don't want anyone to disagree with you or others trying to praise the man accused of rape? This isn't a Katy Perry forum. It's... a music forum with a thread about her music.

 

The below was meant as a reply to @Ramcoro but you can be told it if you're confused why people are going to downvote anyone defending or lying in defense of Luke.

 

Kesha could not accuse Dr. Luke of a crime in a court of law because the statute of limitations ran out. Thus a criminal trial could never take place despite Kesha being on record since 2005 consistently telling others the same story - that Dr. Luke gave her some kind of "sober pill" and she woke up naked in his bed in his hotel room in pain after Nicky Hilton's birthday. 

 

There were never any criminal cases filed and thus rhetoric like  "innocent until proven guilty" is arbitrary language. Both filed civil suits alleging to be victims of harm.

 

All that ended up being ruled in a court of law was:

• Kesha could not sue Dr. Luke / Kemosabe to be let out of her contract in California, despite being where Kemosabe operated business and where the assault took place, because of a stipulation in her contract that she would agree to address all legal issues within the jurisdiction of New York State;
• That being a victim of rape and workplace harassment does not justify the dissolving of a music recording contract, with the judge in Kesha's case against Dr. Luke / Kemosabe / Sony Music Entertainment in New York finding she could still deliver recorded music to Sony without needing to physically work with Luke and that Kesha's recording contract was negotiated by normal industry standards;
• That Luke could not sue Pebe Sebert for defamation in Tennessee or California due to lacking jurisdiction and that his defamation case against her in New York lacked merit;
• That Luke's defamation case against Kesha largely went nowhere for 3 years until the discovery of texts between Gaga and Kesha about what John Janick claimed about Katy, and that the court ruled these claims were not true; but the appeals court of New York State also found that Dr. Luke is a semi-public figure and thus Luke had to prove that Kesha made such statements with malicious intent. And thus Luke made a settlement offer instead of risking a jury trial where he'd have to prove Kesha's statement to Gaga was done with malicious intent AND still have to prove that Kesha's own claims of rape were untrue. 

If you're trying to litigate Kesha's case, then all the same people seemingly trying to defend Katy by making the insane claim that "Kesha was spreading gossip about Katy" should have to answer to that Luke admitted he would not be able to prove these claims were made by Kesha with malicious intent, and thus conceded that Kesha herself must have vehemently believed them to be true when repeating them to Gaga and earnestly believed Katy to be another victim of the same man. 

 

Dr. Luke's attorney literally petitioned the appeals court that he would have never filed a defamation case against Kesha if knowing he'd have to meet the burden of proof that Kesha acted in malicious intent over the claims she made and that this ruling was unfair - just days before settling out of court.

 

Maybe there should be a banner linking to a summary of what Kesha vs. Kemosabe and Dr. Luke vs. Kesha actually resulted in because it's insane to make posts that incorrectly claim that Dr. Luke "was proven an innocent man" or that he "was exonerated in a court of law" - all untrue - and then get mad such a post gets downvoted. You're literally perpetuating the same cycle you claim to be mad at via defending a rapist. 

Hi, Communion! You're so quirky. You must be confused! This thread is for the Katy Perry song 'Lifetimes', from the album '143', out September 20th! 

 

You can pre-order your copy of the album here. 

 

You can also listen to a preview of 'Lifetimes' below, courtesy of Capitol Records. 

 

Enjoy! 

 

 

Edited July 21 by Stunnah

[Element]

PLEASE READ:

I finally caught up on today's discussion. This is now the second day in a row with this thread generating a ton of reports due to off-topic posts. A few users have been thread-banned as a result.

 

I want to note that I've given warnings to both pro-Katy and anti-Katy users. While I understand that you want to defend your fave, at this point, I HIGHLY recommend just reporting the posts and not responding. Feeding the off-topic discussion will just cause it to continuously escalate into the essays and nasty fights that we see in the last few pages.

 

As stated in the new reminder message at the top of the page, please keep discussion in this thread focused on this specific song. Discussions about Katy Perry's larger scale career/choices, and other artists should NOT be done here. There are plenty of other places to do so on ATRL. Literally multiple threads a day!

 

Thank you!

[Breathe On Moi]

oop! 

[shimind]

11 hours ago, Nefertiti0 said:

it has to be false since he produced more than half of Conan Gray's last album so why wouldn't Taylor be able to afford him?

he probably gives huge discount to young gay artists in favour of something in return. 

[AvadaKedavra]

I want a really cute uplifting vid for this song  a great party 

Edited July 21 by AvadaKedavra

[ImpressMeMuch]

9 hours ago, TOKYO. said:

Its the hypocrisy, when kesha is recently promoting Blow. A luke track.. kesha still wants to gain profit from her luke songs.. doesnt that say something.

Oh this is so dumb.

[ImpressMeMuch]

To keep it on topic

 

i don't get why she had to go to luke for any of this genericness when anyone could have provided it 

[Ramcoro]

It would be cool if she does a bracket of survey. Like have Gimme vs He's Mine, I'm His 

And Nirvana vs Lifetimes and the winner of each faces of each other.

[Witnessed ET]

5 minutes ago, Ramcoro said:

It would be cool if she does a bracket of survey. Like have Gimme vs He's Mine, I'm His 

And Nirvana vs Lifetimes and the winner of each faces of each other.

Yeah it's a good idea tbh.

 

or just release all of the official snippets on social media and YouTube, and see which one people resonate with the most. Maybe release them as official sounds on tiktok and see what's the usage of each. 

[BlueBlue]

We literally waited month for WW and now we are waiting AGAIN for another song. Ugh I hate her sometimes

[OmegaRidley]

14 hours ago, VeniceBeach said:

It was the comeback hype created by her label, bots on Twitter, playlisting + people were interested to hear what she created with her favorite rapist producer. Kesha had neither of these things. Want to tell us why this colossal bomb left the Spotify charts after day 1?

So the bots on twitter listened to the song on Spotify?