dumbsparce Posted July 13 Posted July 13 Ppl don't vote for parties anymore, they vote for candidates 1 1
Virgos Groove Posted July 13 Posted July 13 (edited) Slightly off-topic, but if you really wanna get to the bottom of it, blame America's electoral system. There's no realistic way for a 3rd party to win, meaning the Dems are a big tent party with no real idelogy and, most importantly of all, no real competition from the left, who are forced to tag along with a party that doesn't like them. And this is despite many centre-left ideas being popular with the American public. I really don't think the (electoral) left stands a chance to win in the US without a major change to the electoral system. (How that would happen, idk.) Here in Europe, our systems are far from perfect (see: the endless Thatcher vs. Mussolini elections we've been having recently ), but leftists don't have the burden of sharing a party with corporate liberals and the public can defer to left-wing parties if they want to. Our ruling centrist parties live in some fear of losing voters, while the American Dems will always have their base. "What are they gonna do? Vote for the Green Party?" But to answer your question: corporate centrist party -> doing everything in their power to avoid a Bernie nomination -> Biden is chosen as the nominee -> zero excitement from the public -> the mess you're in today. Edited July 13 by Virgos Groove 8 1
woohoo Posted July 13 Posted July 13 (edited) Us, we're the problem because nobody shows up to vote in primaries. It's astounding to see an entire country bitching about their candidates when each side had at least four other choices. I'm not wasting my time phone banking anymore. This was my last year. The years I worked polling places, middle age and old people out numbered the young people 8:2. In 2020 we did see an uptick but not nearly enough. I'm tired of screaming from the rooftops about primaries and local elections. We get what we deserve at this point for being complacent and not caring. we ***** too much on tiktok and social media but the real message should have been sent via ballot box. Unless we one day have ranked choice we're ****** for the rest of our lives. I mean with this Supreme Court we're ***** regardless Edited July 13 by woohoo 1 1
Hurem Posted July 13 Posted July 13 The problem lies with USA being rooted in capitalism. Just because of that, American politicians will always serve rich people, not ordinary people. Now, as an outsider, I'm not sure when the Democrats took the wrong turn, but for awhile now they seem like a party that's fighting for status quo in fear of not offending anybody. Because of that, they're losing the support from their audiences, while conservatives are getting more extreme and I guess the average Joe would rather side with a party with bad moral stances than no stances at all? 1
getBusy Posted July 13 Posted July 13 They just assumed that Obama turned all Americans into very progressive and open minded folks and that they would be able to ride the wave with any candidate moving forward.
DAP Posted July 13 Posted July 13 Their commitment with Republicans to restoring the capitalist order that existed before the New Deal is why we are here and the blowback will only get worse. The only way ordinary people in the US can challenge the status quo, beside engaging in community/local elections, is to organize a militant labor movement.
GraceRandolph Posted July 13 Author Posted July 13 24 minutes ago, woohoo said: Us, we're the problem because nobody shows up to vote in primaries. It's astounding to see an entire country bitching about their candidates when each side had at least four other choices. I'm not wasting my time phone banking anymore. This was my last year. The years I worked polling places, middle age and old people out numbered the young people 8:2. In 2020 we did see an uptick but not nearly enough. I'm tired of screaming from the rooftops about primaries and local elections. We get what we deserve at this point for being complacent and not caring. we ***** too much on tiktok and social media but the real message should have been sent via ballot box. Unless we one day have ranked choice we're ****** for the rest of our lives. I mean with this Supreme Court we're ***** regardless The primaries that the Democratic Party cancelled? They discouraged any Governors or big names from challenging Biden. 2
Happylittlepunk Posted July 13 Posted July 13 The democratic party simply stopped caring about the average American. There are so many policies that are very popular with the gp but they refuse to cater to progressives or general mainstream democratic proposals. Everything that democrats do these days doesn't seem very different from what republics do.
Communion Posted July 13 Posted July 13 It's wild how some communists on Tumblr blackpilled young people for the next two decades. The establishment then leaning into it and the blatant rigging against Bernie twice really was too much for the system to handle. Throw in the contradictions of capitalism, worldwide pandemic, etc. and a party claiming to care about inequality while fueling the very system that spurs on said equality is never going to hold on. 38 minutes ago, Breathe On Moi said: Obama was cool af let's just be honest about it For context, Biden also for all of Obama's term received the celebrity treatment from young people. Photos like these filled Buzzfeed.
Communion Posted July 13 Posted July 13 41 minutes ago, woohoo said: Us, we're the problem because nobody shows up to vote in primaries. 1
Bitter Aging Twink Posted July 13 Posted July 13 Here is my delusional hot take. Young people, at the end of the day, have an innate desire to be rebellious. They don't want to follow any person or ideology that's too boring or safe. In the past, the democratic party was seen as the more "rebellious" party compared to the "boring" Republicans, who were typically crusty, old, white men who only cared about maintaining the status quo. The democrats, on the other hand, were much more exciting, as they fought for abortion rights, women's rights, LGBT rights, and the rights of other marginalized groups, which seemed much more captivating in comparison. Once the United States was able to attain most of these aforementioned rights and privileges, they didn't seem so "cool" to young people anymore, and they began to take them for granted. Any woman can get an abortion on demand? Cool. Any adult can marry another consenting adult? Cool. Transgender people can have rights too and integrate themselves into society? Cool. But once this new wave of human rights began to establish itself, people began to forget what life had been like before. That's why it was so shocking in 2022, when Roe v. Wade was overturned, because it was one of the first times in US history when a group of people (women) suddenly had fewer rights than they did in the past. There was a turning point that happened sometime in the mid-2010s when suddenly being a democrat became "uncool" and being a Republican became "edgy" and "rogue." A lot of this was due to clever social media marketing. The conservative party somehow managed to create thousands of social media accounts through sites like YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram which only served to spew conservative talking points in a way that appealed to young people, particularly young men. I'm not even conservative, and yet my YouTube algorithm constantly recommends me videos with titles like "Feminist gets owned" or "Why the Trans debate shouldn't exist." Basically, there was a lot of money behind this conservative push, and these people were so savvy in their efforts that they managed to convince hoards of young people that things like feminism, LGBT rights, and minority rights are "lame" and, at best, not worth supporting or, at worst, something to be actively fought against. Couple this with the fact that Trump came about just at the right time, in the mid-2010s, when all this was going on in the background, and you basically find yourself where we are now. Democrats are seen as deeply uncool and unlikable. The things they stand for are seen as a complete joke, and young people are turning to conservatism in droves because they will always want to get behind whoever or whatever seems rebellious and cool at the time, and the way conservatives have marketed themselves these past 10 years has managed to convince the American youth that conservatism is the way forward.
Communion Posted July 13 Posted July 13 11 minutes ago, Bitter Aging Twink said: young people are turning to conservatism in droves Ah yes, young people don't like Biden and by extension the Dems because they're becoming right wing! Yes! 1
bad guy Posted July 13 Posted July 13 Citizen's United. The moment the Supreme Court said that money = speech was the end of any real progress that the country could make and instead has created a government entirely funded by corporate interests. Democrat or Republican, it doesn't matter. Majority of them are all beholden to whatever stuffs their pockets the most. But the forced anointment of Clinton and then of Biden, all while admittedly rigging/bulldozing Bernie's chances at becoming the nominee was the final nail in the coffin.
Bitter Aging Twink Posted July 13 Posted July 13 32 minutes ago, Communion said: Ah yes, young people don't like Biden and by extension the Dems because they're becoming right wing! Yes! No need to be rude. And the source you cited from the 2020 election is outdated and nearly half a decade old. The 4-year period following COVID saw some of the most change-filled years in US history when it comes to people's political stances. According to recent sources, Gen-Z is one of the most conservative generations in recent history, even more conservative than millennials were just 2 decades ago. You need to look beyond your liberal, east coast bubble and realize what a chokehold conservatism has on a large portion of young people (particularly Gen-Z men). Denying the problem won't help us find the solution.
Communion Posted July 13 Posted July 13 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Bitter Aging Twink said: Gen-Z is one of the most conservative generations in recent history This is literally not true and comes from for-profit market surveying where things like credit card companies or accounting firms interview young people about their spending habits, find the Gen Z kids they interviewed don't make big purchases easily or are risk-adverse in investments and post the findings as blog posts on websites. These posts they get picked up by conservative pundits who turn things like "Gen Z is very conservative (lower case-c) in their spending habits" to "GEN Z IS THE MOST CONSERVATIVE GENERATION IN RECENT HISTORY!!". You're literally showing a graphic that only *6%* more of Gen-Z would consider themselves more conservative than millennials yet then say something as insane as the bold. Let alone anyone with minor political knowledge knows such surveying is flawed because it leaves it open to one's interpretation of the terms in question. Poll people on policy and you literally see Gen Z uniformly supporting leftist, progressive policy. It's literally why they chose the socialist for president twice! Edited July 13 by Communion
Bitter Aging Twink Posted July 13 Posted July 13 18 minutes ago, Communion said: This is literally not true and comes from for-profit market surveying where things like credit card companies or accounting firms interview young people about their spending habits, find the Gen Z kids they interviewed don't make big purchases easily or are risk-adverse in investments and post the findings as blog posts on websites. These posts they get picked up by conservative pundits who turn things like "Gen Z is very conservative (lower case-c) in their spending habits" to "GEN Z IS THE MOST CONSERVATIVE GENERATION IN RECENT HISTORY!!". You're literally showing a graphic that only *6%* more of Gen-Z would consider themselves more conservative than millennials yet then say something as insane as the bold. Let alone anyone with minor political knowledge knows such surveying is flawed because it leaves it open to one's interpretation of the terms in question. Poll people on policy and you literally see Gen Z uniformly supporting leftist, progressive policy. It's literally why they chose the socialist for president twice! You can deny it all you want. But when November rolls around and Trump inevitably gets re-elected with close to 50% support amongst Gen-Z males, don't come here asking "why?" when the answer's already been presented to you.
Communion Posted July 13 Posted July 13 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Bitter Aging Twink said: with close to 50% support amongst Gen-Z males "Gen Z is conservative!" -> "Gen Z men are conservative!!!" -> "Gen Z men who VOTE are conservative!!" sis what kind of Remy Ma qualifying. Edited July 13 by Communion
Mike91 Posted July 13 Posted July 13 Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden don't/didn't speak to the issues that Millenial and Gen Z voters care about. As a matter of fact, the democratic party as a whole has gone out of its way to be hostile towards them. That's why when they do try to appeal to younger voters, it falls on deaf ears. Obama at least pretended to listen. It's not surprising that as Millenials and Gen Z voters become the majority, democrats are struggling, even though it should be the opposite. They're still propping up relics from the past as party leaders.
woohoo Posted July 14 Posted July 14 On 7/12/2024 at 8:58 PM, GraceRandolph said: The primaries that the Democratic Party cancelled? They discouraged any Governors or big names from challenging Biden. Yeah it's called personal accountability. If you are political at all you need to inform yourself of primary dates and not blame the party because you're a lazy ***** and won't go stand in line. We had primaries on the Dem side with 4 choices. And again at my polling place, old people overwhelmed. I may have seen 50 people under 30 out of a few thousand.
banterfly Posted July 14 Posted July 14 It's just part of a cycle, when you veer too far to one side there's bound to be a correction.
Anthinos Posted July 14 Posted July 14 5 hours ago, banterfly said: It's just part of a cycle, when you veer too far to one side there's bound to be a correction. Well, the correction in the USA will be very severe. There is a chance that the US will lose achievements such as same-sex marriage. Abortion also seems to be a thorn in the side of conservatives in the USA. Nobody needs to say they didn't know. The USA, but also many parts of Europe, will be governed by these people for years, perhaps even decades. For us gays, the fight starts all over again. I'm glad I don't live in the USA. We have our problems too, but it's not as bad as in the USA, which is certainly also due to the fact that we have more parties.
The7thStranger Posted July 14 Posted July 14 The US is too large a country for a two-party system. We need to adopt a parlimentary system. Complete disconnect between the representatives and the people (recent examples: the response to Roe v. Wade being overturned and the current administration's response to the Israel-Palestine conflict). They need to stop shouting down the very people they hope to get votes from.
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