base talk Sugababes or Girls Aloud ?

[NoAngelus]

11 minutes ago, ChooseyLover said:

Have you heard Siobhan's podcast with Sophie Ellis Bextor? She says what she considers Keisha's work ethic and leadership in the group now is what she probably considered bullying at 16. 

Ofc she's not gonna trash her now when they are all grown up and past their issues. They already talked about solving their issues in 2013 interview. And look for 2003 interview on UK Cd or Popworld to see Siobhan's reaction to Keisha and her time in Sugababes back in the day.

 

Quote

 I don't understand what's the point you're trying to make when you say MKS are ruining their legacy when they've nothing but celebrated everything about their career and even paid past members their dues many times.

They didn't. They are still pretty nasty about it. 

And let me remind you, Amelle and Heidi had no power to kick someone out. They both left the band. Crown management kicked Keisha and the other two were forced back. They owned Sugababes name and already had 3 members to replace. The fact that Amelle and Heidi went back in and had to deal with backlash and all they did was stop label from changing whole line up...

 

Mutya knew the deal they signed and that they were all replaceable. She knew Heidi and Amelle were told that. The fact that she went on and trash talked Heidi knowing she was forced back in and they let them receive the hate they had in 2009/2010. I will never forgive them.

 

Mutya saw a chance to earn money back if they reunite and that's why they reunited. It was out of pettiness. 

 

 

Everything they did as Sugababes last 5 years has been cheap. Just compare GA comeback and theirs... And Sugababes were bigger back in the day. That really says it all. 

 

 

 

[ChooseyLover]

12 minutes ago, NoAngelus said:

Ofc she's not gonna trash her now when they are all grown up and past their issues. They already talked about solving their issues in 2013 interview. And look for 2003 interview on UK Cd or Popworld to see Siobhan's reaction to Keisha and her time in Sugababes back in the day.

 

They didn't. They are still pretty nasty about it. 

And let me remind you, Amelle and Heidi had no power to kick someone out. They both left the band. Crown management kicked Keisha and the other two were forced back. They owned Sugababes name and already had 3 members to replace. The fact that Amelle and Heidi went back in and had to deal with backlash and all they did was stop label from changing whole line up...

 

Mutya knew the deal they signed and that they were all replaceable. She knew Heidi and Amelle were told that. The fact that she went on and trash talked Heidi knowing she was forced back in and they let them receive the hate they had in 2009/2010. I will never forgive them.

 

Mutya saw a chance to earn money back if they reunite and that's why they reunited. It was out of pettiness. 

 

 

Everything they did as Sugababes last 5 years has been cheap. Just compare GA comeback and theirs... And Sugababes were bigger back in the day. That really says it all.

Did they really leave the band? Because not even Keisha or Mutya have ever said that they did and it's the first time I hear about it. If Amelle or Heidi have explained their version of what happened somewhere and it's that then I guess I would believe them.

I don't think anything they've done is cheap. They're independent, they put out an unreleased album that they fought very hard for and it's really good, When The Rain Comes is amazing and I'm sure the upcoming album will be too. Nobody is checking up on them for chart success, we're here for quality music (the opposite of Sweet 7), or at least I am.

Edited July 8 by ChooseyLover

[Migs]

Girls Aloud for sure. My favorite band ever. Saw them live back in May and wow, what a concert! 

But I also love Sugababes as well, even Sweet 7 lol

[NoAngelus]

7 minutes ago, ChooseyLover said:

Did they really leave the band?

Yes, A&H talked about it. Jade didn't know who was she replacing. And label already hired 3 girls and shooting of AAG video started in California when they still didn't know who was in the band. 

 

And that's why I am pressed at Mutya and Kesiha ever since, despite LOVING The Lost Tapes.

 

Mutya left the band because she wanted solo career, she didn't have a reason to be bitter about Sugababes until her solo career ended. 

 

 

 

 

[ChooseyLover]

16 minutes ago, NoAngelus said:

Yes, A&H talked about it. Jade didn't know who was she replacing. And label already hired 3 girls and shooting of AAG video started in California when they still didn't know who was in the band. 

 

And that's why I am pressed at Mutya and Kesiha ever since, despite LOVING The Lost Tapes.

 

Mutya left the band because she wanted solo career, she didn't have a reason to be bitter about Sugababes until her solo career ended. 

 

I'll look into what Heidi & Amelle said. I confess I was never interested in what they had to say.

I thought Mutya left the band because she needed a break after having Tahlia but the label wasn't pleased with that and they replaced her.

And also I thought Heidi and Amelle held on to the brand and that's why Sugababes had to come back as MKS. I just read an interview where Heidi says they hadn't split up yet and it's from 2014. Kinda nasty to hold on to the name when they had no plans to come back at all.

Edited July 8 by ChooseyLover

[NoAngelus]

4 minutes ago, ChooseyLover said:

I'll look into what Heidi & Amelle said. I confess I was never interested in what they had to say.

I thought Mutya left the band because she needed a break after having Tahlia but the label wasn't pleased with that and they replaced her.

Well, that's the problem. No one cared about Amelle and Heidi and how they felt. The reason 3.0 fell apparat is lack of break - they were overworked and never given a break.

In 2006 Keisha pushed for GH instead of a year long break because she wanted new member to adjust as soon as possible, then in 2008 they were supposed to have a break but Klass contacted them about working and Keisha pushed them into recording C&S album, so when it bombed label forced them into making generic album and once again denied them a break. Amelle had mental breakdwon. When Keisha was called bully no one meant it as physical abuse, but she was very...argumentative. 

 

Mutya was checked out at least year before she left. They were given a break in 2004/2005 when they were supposed to release album in US. K&H pretty much worked alone on TIMW and they credited Mutya as a writer even when she wasn't present. When she left the band everyone thought it was because she wanted time to be a mother, but she had already signed her solo deal and went into recording solo album pretty soon after. K&H felt betrayed because M wasn't honest with them. Keisha moved on quickly because they were already distant, but Heidi was hurt. Which pretty much confirms their relationship as Mutya said in interview that she was closer to Heidi. 

[ChooseyLover]

1 minute ago, NoAngelus said:

Well, that's the problem. No one cared about Amelle and Heidi and how they felt. The reason 3.0 fell apparat is lack of break - they were overworked and never given a break.

In 2006 Keisha pushed for GH instead of a year long break because she wanted new member to adjust as soon as possible, then in 2008 they were supposed to have a break but Klass contacted them about working and Keisha pushed them into recording C&S album, so when it bombed label forced them into making generic album and once again denied them a break. Amelle had mental breakdwon. When Keisha was called bully no one meant it as physical abuse, but she was very...argumentative. 

 

Mutya was checked out at least year before she left. They were given a break in 2004/2005 when they were supposed to release album in US. K&H pretty much worked alone on TIMW and they credited Mutya as a writer even when she wasn't present. When she left the band everyone thought it was because she wanted time to be a mother, but she had already signed her solo deal and went into recording solo album pretty soon after. K&H felt betrayed because M wasn't honest with them. Keisha moved on quickly because they were already distant, but Heidi was hurt. Which pretty much confirms their relationship as Mutya said in interview that she was closer to Heidi. 

I tried to find the interview where Mutya said that but I couldn't find it. I only found an excerpt where Heidi says she was upset about Mutya not replying her messages and calls because she was like a best friend to her.

I'd like to know more about the battle about the Sugababes brand and the MKS drama. I thought they were up against Heidi and Amelle and they were holding on to the brand despite not planning to put out new music.

[NoAngelus]

3 minutes ago, ChooseyLover said:

I tried to find the interview where Mutya said that but I couldn't find it. I only found an excerpt where Heidi says she was upset about Mutya not replying her messages and calls because she was like a best friend to her.

I'd like to know more about the battle about the Sugababes brand and the MKS drama. I thought they were up against Heidi and Amelle and they were holding on to the brand despite not planning to put out new music.

I can't seem to find it now, if I stumble upon I'll post it. I'm pretty sure it was DigitalSpy. 

 

We'll never know anything about it, first because it doesn't fit the narrative Keisha wants us to believe, and second she fought Crown management - not Heidi or Amelle, not even Island label. Because they re-signed the deal before S7 and they pretty much signed away their name and the deal was that Sugababes are brand, not a band. 

 

Heidi is done with music. Amelle had hopes over the years that they would reunite and I assume she is the only one wanting to be Sugababe these days. 

 

Heidi has every right to be pressed about MKS with how they keep discrediting her work and impact on band. 

 

 

[Freaky Prince]

The best to ever do it, Girls Acclaimed 

[Jay07]

Not sure what's happening here but Girls Aloud for sure. Every single they put out was gold while I only like a couple of Sugababes songs.

[ithinkheknowsoutsold]

Two of my most played artists ever, it's incredibly hard for me to pit them against each other. They're both amazing and some of the best discographies of any pop act. At the moment I'm leaning towards GA because I saw them live in May and they were so awesome, but I just rediscovered Sunday Rain so the Sugababes might be taking over by next week.

[ithinkheknowsoutsold]

2 hours ago, ChooseyLover said:

Did they really leave the band?

Yes, they both left the band but the management followed them and Keisha was ultimately left alone, which led to her being made to exit the group.

[ithinkheknowsoutsold]

2 hours ago, NoAngelus said:

Heidi has every right to be pressed about MKS with how they keep discrediting her work and impact on band.

I think the worst offenders are the fans, who keep pretending 1.0 is what the Sugababes needed to be all along when no one would have checked them out had they made albums like One Touch over and over. Keisha herself said Heidi had a poppy ear and was very Disney which, while not the sole factor, was a major influence on the more commercial sounds of Angels With Dirty Faces and onwards. The constant discrediting of Heidi is shameful when she stuck with the band for all its good and bad times whilst Siobhan (whom I don't mind at all otherwise) only showed up now to collect the benefits of the group's existing legacy, contributed to majorly by Heidi.

[ithinkheknowsoutsold]

2 hours ago, ChooseyLover said:

I tried to find the interview where Mutya said that but I couldn't find it. I only found an excerpt where Heidi says she was upset about Mutya not replying her messages and calls because she was like a best friend to her.

I'd like to know more about the battle about the Sugababes brand and the MKS drama. I thought they were up against Heidi and Amelle and they were holding on to the brand despite not planning to put out new music.

I came across the clip from the 4.0 days when the girls were promoting Freedom, Heidi is getting dragged in the comments despite clarifying it's the management who controls their names/licenses and they just continue to use it as part of their contract:

 

 

[ChooseyLover]

7 minutes ago, ithinkheknowsoutsold said:

I came across the clip from the 4.0 days when the girls were promoting Freedom, Heidi is getting dragged in the comments despite clarifying it's the management who controls their names/licenses and they just continue to use it as part of their contract:

 

I understand why they get dragged in the comment section regardless of how much control they truly had under the brand, because they had all these privileges that came with being the Sugababes when it comes to exposure. Unfortunely it backfired and they released an album as critically panned as Kevin Federline's debut. Sugababes going on without any founding member was an atrocity to the highest degree. They should have continued using another name, it would have been the best for everyone.

[ItsJustMe.]

I'm loving the sugababes tea sisters

 

ugh their story would make such an interesting movie or series.. and with good music too!

[ithinkheknowsoutsold]

9 hours ago, ChooseyLover said:

I understand why they get dragged in the comment section regardless of how much control they truly had under the brand, because they had all these privileges that came with being the Sugababes when it comes to exposure. Unfortunely it backfired and they released an album as critically panned as Kevin Federline's debut. Sugababes going on without any founding member was an atrocity to the highest degree. They should have continued using another name, it would have been the best for everyone.

People blame the 4.0 girls for how Sweet 7 turned out (an album I personally find fun and enjoyable), but they tend to forget that album was already done whilst Keisha was already part of the band. Get Sexy had already been released by that point with Keisha's voice on it and the girls were performing About a Girl in anticipation of its single release. A full album sampler had also come out with Keisha's vocal on every track, and you can find the whole album with the 3.0 girls on YouTube. Blaming Heidi and Amelle for how the album turned out just feels wrong when Keisha would've been equally responsible (which in reality was not very responsible at all, as it was Roc Nation which caused Sweet 7 to turn out the way it turned out).

[NoAngelus]

21 hours ago, ithinkheknowsoutsold said:

I think the worst offenders are the fans, who keep pretending 1.0 is what the Sugababes needed to be all along when no one would have checked them out had they made albums like One Touch over and over. Keisha herself said Heidi had a poppy ear and was very Disney which, while not the sole factor, was a major influence on the more commercial sounds of Angels With Dirty Faces and onwards. The constant discrediting of Heidi is shameful when she stuck with the band for all its good and bad times whilst Siobhan (whom I don't mind at all otherwise) only showed up now to collect the benefits of the group's existing legacy, contributed to majorly by Heidi.

Perfectly said 

 

You also summed it up why it's so hard for me to fully enjoy this reunion. 

[AxelFox]

Sugababes no contest. 
 

Well the 2nd lineup that is. 

[AxelFox]

22 hours ago, ithinkheknowsoutsold said:

I think the worst offenders are the fans, who keep pretending 1.0 is what the Sugababes needed to be all along when no one would have checked them out had they made albums like One Touch over and over. Keisha herself said Heidi had a poppy ear and was very Disney which, while not the sole factor, was a major influence on the more commercial sounds of Angels With Dirty Faces and onwards. The constant discrediting of Heidi is shameful when she stuck with the band for all its good and bad times whilst Siobhan (whom I don't mind at all otherwise) only showed up now to collect the benefits of the group's existing legacy, contributed to majorly by Heidi.

Thank you! 
 

[Ewan Chaos]

Two bad *******, but it'll always be Girls Aloud

 

EDIT: I mean bad betches like 2 great groups just to be clear cuz the censor makes it seem like I'm saying it in a bad way

Edited July 9 by Ewan Chaos

[ChooseyLover]

13 hours ago, ithinkheknowsoutsold said:

People blame the 4.0 girls for how Sweet 7 turned out (an album I personally find fun and enjoyable), but they tend to forget that album was already done whilst Keisha was already part of the band. Get Sexy had already been released by that point with Keisha's voice on it and the girls were performing About a Girl in anticipation of its single release. A full album sampler had also come out with Keisha's vocal on every track, and you can find the whole album with the 3.0 girls on YouTube. Blaming Heidi and Amelle for how the album turned out just feels wrong when Keisha would've been equally responsible (which in reality was not very responsible at all, as it was Roc Nation which caused Sweet 7 to turn out the way it turned out).

I didn't know Keisha recorded all the songs. Interesting. I wonder if the reception would've been more positive with her. Imo it never sounded like a Sugababes album, the quality of the music went downhill since Mutya left. And I believe Keisha when she says they weren't allowed to work on it. They gave them the songs and asked them to record them and the albums were released shortly after that.

 

I try not to see Heidi and Amelle in a bad light but I still can't help it. Why did they leave the band and leave Keisha alone? They still dumped her and the outcome was going to be bad for her. I can't feel bad for Heidi or Amelle. They weren't the ones caught crying by the paparazzi when **** hit the fan and they weren't the ones expelled from the group. The nerve of everyone involved to make Keisha go through that.

 

i understand veteran fans have a soft spot for Heidi and those eras with all the #1s but the founders are where they were always meant to be.

[M!X]

Babes have fantastic singles, some good albums and their GH is one of my favourites ever

 

but lets be real: Girls Aloud have the best pop discography  of all time, 1 good and 4 literal pop masterpiece albums, like no competition from anyone really. Like random b side from a third single (Memory of you) is better than 99% of modern pop songs, that's their standard

 

and their new tour proved they are uk legends

 

 

Edited July 9 by M!X

[Soda Pop Queen]

Both groups have some bangers but I prefer the core sound and vocals of Sugababes (the versions with Keisha and Mutya)

[ithinkheknowsoutsold]

23 hours ago, ChooseyLover said:

I didn't know Keisha recorded all the songs. Interesting. I wonder if the reception would've been more positive with her. Imo it never sounded like a Sugababes album, the quality of the music went downhill since Mutya left. And I believe Keisha when she says they weren't allowed to work on it. They gave them the songs and asked them to record them and the albums were released shortly after that.

 

I try not to see Heidi and Amelle in a bad light but I still can't help it. Why did they leave the band and leave Keisha alone? They still dumped her and the outcome was going to be bad for her. I can't feel bad for Heidi or Amelle. They weren't the ones caught crying by the paparazzi when **** hit the fan and they weren't the ones expelled from the group. The nerve of everyone involved to make Keisha go through that.

 

i understand veteran fans have a soft spot for Heidi and those eras with all the #1s but the founders are where they were always meant to be.

The criticism of the quality of Change and Catfights & Spotlights never made sense to me since the former is on the same level as albums like Three or Taller In More Ways whilst they were going in a different direction with the latter and even its shortcomings were not an outcome of a lack of trying. If you believe Keisha when she says she had no control over the album, shouldn't that absolve both Heidi and Amelle of the blame too? Keisha was the effective leader of the group, and if she couldn't do anything for the album, neither could the other two.

 

Funny how people complain about how the quality dipped Mutya left because Mutya had already stopped creatively contributing to the group by the time TIMW came out. As mentioned in this thread, Mutya was generously given writing credits for the album despite not writing much at all due to her pregnancy. A lot of Change is actually comprised of repurposed tracks from TIMW, such as Never Gonna Dance Again and My Love Is Pink, and other tracks like the title track, Denial, and Backdown could all fit on the former comfortably. Therefore it seems to me the criticisms only come from Mutya's absence and not because of the quality of the album.

 

As for feeling sympathy for Keisha and not Heidi or Amelle, it doesn't really make sense to me. Sure Keisha was the one to get kicked out, but in all the months leading up to that happening everyone assumed Amelle would be the one getting the boot or leaving herself. Mutya fans hated her since day one and Mutya was horrible to her, infamously dissing her in Song 4 Mutya (Out of Control) with Groove Armada, and badmouthing her in the press whilst Amelle remained very courteous. Worse still, Mutya recorded a song for her debut album called Strung Out that was actually co-written by Amelle whilst she was working under a writing camp and Mutya threw a hissy fit about it and forcibly had Amelle's credits removed despite keeping the song intact; Amelle again didn't do much about it. Amelle's personal life was constantly ripped to shreds by the press and belonging to an Arab family her sisters were especially made fun of for their incidents (which Amelle didn't have control over). Things got so bad that one point Amelle was arrested for attacking a car in her hometown despite her not even being in the city at the time!

 

Keisha herself admitted to being strict with Amelle (despite Amelle having impressed Keisha with her audition) and we had video proof of her being controlling in interviews around the release of Get Sexy to the point Heidi and especially Amelle were barely allowed to speak a word. Things got so bad with Amelle at one point she had to check in to a health clinic, having suffered an emotional breakdown. Jade Ewen (Keisha's eventual replacement) actually resembles Amelle the most looks-wise, and she was already being touted as a replacement Babe as early as the summer of 2009, so it's hard not to think it was Amelle who she was initially meant to replace. If all signs were pointed towards her getting kicked out, why shouldn't she have jumped ship earlier? In fact, before Keisha got kicked out, people were turning on her because they thought she was bullying Amelle, only for people to start considering her a saint when she ended up getting the boot (exhibit: https://forum.popjustice.com/threads/sugababes-sweet-7.12948/post-629014).

 

I am not certain what went down with Heidi, but if you heard rumours that Siobhan left due to Keisha (which Siobhan was asserting well into the late 2000s and Keisha was herself tweeting about right until Amelle left; more on Keisha's Twitter later), Mutya left because of the pressure forced on her by her and Keisha, and Amelle wanted to leave because of Keisha, wouldn't you want to leave Keisha too? I have a feeling differences began arising between the two with the Catfights album as Heidi is largely absent from the songwriting credits of the album despite having contributed majorly on all of the girls' albums before. Perhaps creative differences also caused Heidi to stray from Keisha.

 

One last thing about Keisha: there is a big difference between the current, more filtered Keisha and the Keisha of 2009. She had a very active Twitter and was constantly giving negative takes there plus having spats with fans (exhibit: https://forum.popjustice.com/threads/sugababes-sweet-7.12948/post-568158), and whilst what happened to her was unfortunate and unjustifiable, she is not the victim the new fans think she is. 

 

In the end, it's hard to absolve any of them for the blame, except maybe Jade. Keisha and Mutya were not eternal victims, and Heidi and Amelle were not eternal bullies. As the Babes themselves once said, they're all angels with dirty faces.