Tovitov Posted July 2 Posted July 2 It's Biden or a dictatorship. I don't find the choice difficult, but you guys do you. 4 7
wastedpotential Posted July 2 Posted July 2 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Tovitov said: It's Biden or a dictatorship. I don't find the choice difficult, but you guys do you. Well you have to remember that the entire thesis of accelerationism, which I have seen supported by a few users on this website, is that a Trump dictatorship is ultimately a good thing because it will spur the working classes into staging a communist counter-revolution and we'll all live in the glorious Union of American Socialist States or whatever they've named it in their fantasies, since everyone in the US above the poverty line deserves to suffer under a Trump regime because they chose one of two political candidates in one election at some point. Of course, I think these users (and other accelerationists) fail to realize that about 90% of all privately owned arms in the US are in the hands of the right wing (as are the compositions of the military officer class and police forces), and also that a Trump regime will actually be quite good for the American middle and upper classes, as Trump and his allies are American nationalists who intend to improve the lives of all white Americans at the expense of the rest of the world. Of course, since that falls on deaf ears outside their worldview, I find it's not worth having the argument. Yeah, this is essentially one half of the Gesetz zur Behebung der Not von Volk und Reich (and the destruction of Chevron alongside the full implementation of Project 2025 will complete the other half). I hope y'all are preparing yourselves for what might come next. Edited July 2 by wastedpotential 10 1
ClashAndBurn Posted July 2 Posted July 2 47 minutes ago, wastedpotential said: Well you have to remember that the entire thesis of accelerationism, which I have seen supported by a few users on this website, is that a Trump dictatorship is ultimately a good thing because it will spur the working classes into staging a communist counter-revolution and we'll all live in the glorious Union of American Socialist States or whatever they've named it in their fantasies, since everyone in the US above the poverty line deserves to suffer under a Trump regime because they chose one of two political candidates in one election at some point. Of course, I think these users (and other accelerationists) fail to realize that about 90% of all privately owned arms in the US are in the hands of the right wing (as are the compositions of the military officer class and police forces), and also that a Trump regime will actually be quite good for the American middle and upper classes, as Trump and his allies are American nationalists who intend to improve the lives of all white Americans at the expense of the rest of the world. Of course, since that falls on deaf ears outside their worldview, I find it's not worth having the argument. Yeah, this is essentially one half of the Gesetz zur Behebung der Not von Volk und Reich (and the destruction of Chevron alongside the full implementation of Project 2025 will complete the other half). I hope y'all are preparing yourselves for what might come next. Biden is losing with or without the "accerationists" you're bashing here. Supposedly they're politically irrelevant and wholly incapable of influence election outcomes anyway, so why wasted your breath on people who've always hated Joe Biden instead of the bedwetting moderates fretting over his debate performance? 2
wastedpotential Posted July 2 Posted July 2 2 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said: Biden is losing with or without the "accerationists" you're bashing here. Supposedly they're politically irrelevant and wholly incapable of influence election outcomes anyway, so why wasted your breath on people who've always hated Joe Biden instead of the bedwetting moderates fretting over his debate performance? nnn I'm just offering an explanation as to why some users feel the way that they do. Not everyone has interacted with someone who hates their country and themselves so deeply that they want to watch it burn. Abstractly, I can respect accelerationism as a movement with a clearly defined goal and clearly defined steps to get there (though I explained above why I think participants are naive to their slim chance of success), which is more than basically everyone else acting in US politics right now. It's clear that the ship is going down (which has been clear to me for a while, though I have had fun playing the blame game with y'all), and I'm too busy figuring out my own next steps to join you in bashing moderates who've lived their entire lives with their heads in the sand. I'd recommend that you find a way to move beyond screaming at the moderates and make a concrete plan on how to survive a second Trump administration, because I don't think any of us will make it out intact without one. I know I'm not the only one making the Weimar parallels, but they're literally becoming more and more astute by the day. 1
ClashAndBurn Posted July 2 Posted July 2 Just now, wastedpotential said: nnn I'm just offering an explanation as to why some users feel the way that they do. Not everyone has interacted with someone who hates their country and themselves so deeply that they want to watch it burn. Abstractly, I can respect accelerationism as a movement with a clearly defined goal and clearly defined steps to get there (though I explained above why I think participants are naive to their slim chance of success), which is more than basically everyone else acting in US politics right now. It's clear that the ship is going down (which has been clear to me for a while, though I have had fun playing the blame game with y'all), and I'm too busy figuring out my own next steps to join you in bashing moderates who've lived their entire lives with their heads in the sand. I'd recommend that you find a way to move beyond screaming at the moderates and make a concrete plan on how to survive a second Trump administration, because I don't think any of us will make it out intact without one. I know I'm not the only one making the Weimar parallels, but they're literally becoming more and more astute by the day. My family doesn't really have any plan for Project 2025 because they're pretty much still in the denial stage of grief. At this point I haven't viewed accelerationism as a viable strategy because the moderates have always found ways to convince people that asking for better is fantasy, and the only way to counter a Republican is with a Republican-lite like Joe Biden, Joe Manchin, or (as of now, after cosplaying as progressive) John Fetterman.
Vroom Vroom Posted July 2 Posted July 2 1 hour ago, wastedpotential said: Well you have to remember that the entire thesis of accelerationism, which I have seen supported by a few users on this website, is that a Trump dictatorship is ultimately a good thing because it will spur the working classes into staging a communist counter-revolution and we'll all live in the glorious Union of American Socialist States or whatever they've named it in their fantasies, since everyone in the US above the poverty line deserves to suffer under a Trump regime because they chose one of two political candidates in one election at some point. Of course, I think these users (and other accelerationists) fail to realize that about 90% of all privately owned arms in the US are in the hands of the right wing (as are the compositions of the military officer class and police forces), and also that a Trump regime will actually be quite good for the American middle and upper classes, as Trump and his allies are American nationalists who intend to improve the lives of all white Americans at the expense of the rest of the world. Of course, since that falls on deaf ears outside their worldview, I find it's not worth having the argument. Yeah, this is essentially one half of the Gesetz zur Behebung der Not von Volk und Reich (and the destruction of Chevron alongside the full implementation of Project 2025 will complete the other half). I hope y'all are preparing yourselves for what might come next. 1
Bethenny Frankel Posted July 2 Posted July 2 All I can say is that I am so thankful to be in a blue state right now. Trump is inevitable at this point, I'll do my part to vote against him but I fear it's too late for us all. 2
wastedpotential Posted July 2 Posted July 2 Just now, ClashAndBurn said: My family doesn't really have any plan for Project 2025 because they're pretty much still in the denial stage of grief. At this point I haven't viewed accelerationism as a viable strategy because the moderates have always found ways to convince people that asking for better is fantasy, and the only way to counter a Republican is with a Republican-lite like Joe Biden, Joe Manchin, or (as of now, after cosplaying as progressive) John Fetterman. If y'all see my ass married to a woman with kids and living in the woods with a Trump flag in my window, no you don't Ultimately, the downfall of most democracies to right-wing authoritarianism (assuming it doesn't happen in a coup) is the in-fighting of the various left-leaning factions leading to coalition negotiation failure, and the inability of each to realize that there are greater enemies. At this point, there are too many powerful actors within the Democratic establishment who would rather have Trump than a strongly progressive government, and there are several progressive actors who think mainstream Democrats fail their purity tests. I know you have ideological blinders so to speak, but this very much is a two way street and the breakdown in cooperation has come from both sides (though centrists have been far more aggressive in shoving out progressives than vice versa, though I'd attribute that to them having more political power in the first place). I think in hindsight we've been headed this direction since the Occupy movement, so all I can do at this point is accept this as reality and move forward. I know we've discussed it before, but even if the Dems gather the courage to dump Biden and cobble the support needed for Gretchen Whitmer (who really is their only hope), this movement will still be banging down the door in 2028, and while I'd personally prefer to have a few more years to prepare, I don't think I'll get that luxury.
slimfem Posted July 2 Posted July 2 17 minutes ago, wastedpotential said: nnn I'm just offering an explanation as to why some users feel the way that they do. Not everyone has interacted with someone who hates their country and themselves so deeply that they want to watch it burn. Abstractly, I can respect accelerationism as a movement with a clearly defined goal and clearly defined steps to get there (though I explained above why I think participants are naive to their slim chance of success), which is more than basically everyone else acting in US politics right now. It's clear that the ship is going down (which has been clear to me for a while, though I have had fun playing the blame game with y'all), and I'm too busy figuring out my own next steps to join you in bashing moderates who've lived their entire lives with their heads in the sand. I'd recommend that you find a way to move beyond screaming at the moderates and make a concrete plan on how to survive a second Trump administration, because I don't think any of us will make it out intact without one. I know I'm not the only one making the Weimar parallels, but they're literally becoming more and more astute by the day. I've been planning too, I've seen the writing on the walls for a long time, history is repeating itself, a new hitler is coming to power. I don't think it will matter if you're in a blue or red state. Are you planning on seeking asylum or leaving the country before he takes office? If so, what county are considering? I've read he'll carry out most parts of project 2025 within the first 100 days of office.
woohoo Posted July 2 Posted July 2 Do any other gays kinda feel this is the end for us? Maybe not death but like the end as far as being out and free. Like our lives will be so drastically altered that we may not even be able to say we're gay. Like a don't ask don't tell but public wide? I haven't felt this bleak in a long time. I mean I could run the second week of November but Canada is heading far right too. Most of Europe. The straight whites really are the worst most selfish people on this planet. They care about nobody's harm as long as they get their little crotch goblins to soccer practice by 5 everyday. I never had to option to be blissfully unaware of politics because my rights have always depended on it. 2 1 1
wastedpotential Posted July 2 Posted July 2 1 minute ago, slimfem said: I've been planning too, I've seen the writing on the walls for a long time, history is repeating itself, a new hitler is coming to power. I don't think it will matter if you're in a blue or red state. Are you planning on seeking asylum or leaving the country before he takes office? If so, what county are considering? I've read he'll carry out most parts of project 2025 within the first 100 days of office. Whatever it ends up being I'll probably stay and try to ride it out (because unlike Hitler, Trump doesn't seem too interested in starting total wars of conquest with every surrounding country, and the US is food and energy independent so the odds of natural famine are relatively low), but if it reaches a certain point of intolerability I'll probably go somewhere in the Southern Cone because I've got strong Spanish, it's relatively stable, and, in a worst case, I imagine basically everywhere else will fill up with Americans first.
RoseBud Posted July 2 Posted July 2 Well at least I won't have to worry about filling out those pesky ballots anymore....
Communion Posted July 2 Posted July 2 (edited) 55 minutes ago, wastedpotential said: nnn I'm just offering an explanation as to why some users feel the way that they do. Counterpoint: Most people who are critical of Biden are not accelerations but are people who have actually experienced poverty and marginalization, see and understand from their lived experiences how voting is not actually popular or the go-to civic duty in most of their family and friends' lives, and understand how "just vote cause the other guy is bad!" isn't a meaningful action that'll actually get voters out. Working class Americans of color, single mothers, poor non-degree having whites, first-generation Americans, and other non-voters are not accelerationists. Though I'm am sympathetic that people who have never experienced hardship and strife due to poverty simply won't understand being disillusioned to electoral politics as a thing that uppity affluent people do to make themselves feel good about themselves and form their identities. The 35-year-old black male barber or 27-year-old Hispanic female health aide both making minimum wage in Kenosha County, WI in 2016 didn't decide to stay home because they're either communists or accelerationists, but because they understand what it's like when politics isn't made to help you. Edited July 2 by Communion 4
wastedpotential Posted July 2 Posted July 2 10 minutes ago, Communion said: Counterpoint: Most people who are critical of Biden are not accelerations but are people who have actually experienced poverty and marginalization, see and understand from their lived experiences how voting is not actually popular or the go-to civic duty in most of their family and friends' lives, and understand how "just vote cause the other guy is bad!" isn't a meaningful action that'll actually get voters out. Working class Americans of color, single mothers, poor non-degree having whites, first-generation Americans, and other non-voters are not accelerationists. Though I'm am sympathetic that people who have never experienced hardship and strife due to poverty simply won't understand being disillusioned to electoral politics as a thing that uppity affluent people do to make themselves feel good about themselves and form their identities. The 35-year-old black male barber or 27-year-old Hispanic female health aide both making minimum wage in Kenosha County, WI in 2016 didn't decide to stay home because they're either communists or accelerationists, but because they understand what it's like when politics isn't made to help you. Ddd sister, I fully understand why the vast majority of working class people have significant issues with Biden and are unlikely to vote for him again, and I'm fully aware that they're not interested in accelerationism, that's not at all what I'm talking about The disillusionment with electoral politics felt by working class people is of an entirely different origin to the disillusionment felt by some users on this website because of their ideology (and that should be obvious to literally everyone paying attention) And for the record, I wasn't even thinking of you when compiling my mental list of ATRL accelerationists, and one of the people on that list said they'd literally consider it to be a viable strategy if it weren't for the moderates getting in the way In the sentence you quoted, I literally refer to the users on this website who have advocated for accelerationism at one point or another I'm not sure if you have that picture saved to your computer or whatever, but surely it'd be easier to actually read the conversation you're quoting before going to dig for an irrelevant jpeg file, right? 1
Legend ReX Posted July 2 Posted July 2 This is why IDGAF if the Democratic ticket is Hearse/Harris or Mummy/Harris. I'm voting for Dark (Coffin) Brandon; our lives and democracy are literally on the line. 1
Communion Posted July 2 Posted July 2 (edited) 54 minutes ago, slimfem said: Are you planning on seeking asylum or leaving the country before he takes office? Things like this are always so like... insulting because the vast majority of poor people will not be able to just *re-reads* move to another country. And it incapsulates this kind of... affluent distance a significant subset of people speak of Trump with, so eager to point out the horrors that await via waxing poetics yet have no actual frustration for those with actual power and for whom are actually responsible for all of this happening. You think we're about to experience Gilead and you're literally *re-reads again* figuring the logistics of moving to a *different country* yet most people with your views seemingly think every Democratic elected is somehow a poor powerless baby who has no responsibility in setting the stage for neoliberalism's transition into fascism? The overlap between the "very serious, highly degreed" people who somehow think all of this is the fault of "communist larpers" and the people who are earnestly talking about fleeing the country in the dead of night is.... interesting... especially when remembering the vast majority of poor people (upwards of 80%+) do not own a passport. Most poor Americans can't afford to move to a different state for refuge, let alone a different country. By all means though, do whatever you feel is best for your safety and peace of mind. More power to anyone who apparently has the means to just fly away. Edited July 2 by Communion 1
Communion Posted July 2 Posted July 2 (edited) 13 minutes ago, wastedpotential said: In the sentence you quoted, I literally refer to the users on this website who have advocated for accelerationism at one point or another And I'm expressing that these people quite literally do not exist and exist largely as only a boogeyman in the mind of hoity-toity affluent liberals. But If people have to believe these caricatures exists as a means to cope with reality, all the more power to them. Again, I would just think anyone who ever posted in support of the status quo would either be in hiding or repenting after seeing Joe Biden stroke out on stage. The neoliberal establishment candidate might as well have pissed himself on stage. It's all just so silly to talk of imagined accelerationists trying to will the collapse of capitalist society when seemingly that collapse is very much already happening without much needed besides letting Joe stay up past 6 PM. (TL;DR: any smugness about leftists anyone can have is basically now null and void after the vindication of seeing the liberal world order die on stage last week. I thankfully voted for the geriatric whose brain wasn't melting in 2020 so this isn't on me!) Edited July 2 by Communion
wastedpotential Posted July 2 Posted July 2 1 minute ago, Communion said: And I'm expressing that these people quite literally do not exist and exist largely as only a boogeyman in the mind of hoity-toity affluent liberals. But If people have to believe these caricatures exists as a means to cope with reality, all the more power to them. Again, I would just think anyone who ever posted in support of the status quo would either be in hiding or repenting after seeing Joe Biden stroke out on stage. The neoliberal establishment candidate might as well have pissed himself on stage. It's all just so silly to talk of imagined accelerationists trying to will the collapse of capitalist society when seemingly that collapse is very much already happening without much needed besides letting Joe step up past 6 PM. I'll grant you that not many of them legitimately exist, but you're absolutely lying to me if you tell me you've never come across one in left wing circles on Twitter or Tumblr or wherever. I try to avoid that corner of the internet for the sake of my sanity and I've bumped into more than a few (and the majority of those didn't even come across as agitative foreign propagandists). There are 330 million Americans, at least a few hundred have to legitimately want to burn the system down, and that's really all it takes to start such a movement (just look at the membership statistics of the Communist underground groups in Tsarist Russia in the period between 1890 and 1910). For the most part, they aren't working class, but neither have been the leaders of any attempted Communist revolution. I know you're probably too busy pushing trains around New Jersey or whatever to dedicate such time to this frivolity, but I'd put good money on the fact that you'd be able to find a genuine accelerationist on the quad outside the PoliSci building at Brown or Berkley within an hour on campus asking people I will admit that I've always thought Joe Biden was condemned to lose (and if not him due to some fluke, then certainly the candidate in 2028) and that most of our mildly heated discussions on the topic came because I was bored and had free time and I think you're annoying and ideologically pretentious and I know you always take up a fight. Also... if you seriously believe that the election of Donald Trump will lead to the collapse of capitalist society, I really don't know what to tell you. Trump will re-introduce feudalism and stick all poor people on farms against their will, or implement some sort of hybrid capitalo-fascist economic structure and introduce dirigisme before he'd allow the core capitalist system to fall 1 1
Communion Posted July 2 Posted July 2 24 minutes ago, wastedpotential said: and I think you're annoying and ideologically pretentious Oh, sis, if you think this now, just wait for how I'm gonna be after Debate #2 when Biden trips walking up to the podium and rips open his urine drainage bag. 2
wastedpotential Posted July 2 Posted July 2 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Communion said: Oh, sis, if you think this now, just wait for how I'm gonna be after Debate #2 when Biden trips walking up to the podium and rips open his urine drainage bag. This comes off as enabling of the elder abuse that his family is carrying out right now And regardless, are you implying that the sight of Biden's urine has some sort of psycho-erotic ability to make your ego and pretension grow even bigger? You might want to talk to someone about that, it can't be healthy, and if you get too self righteous you'll get run out of the NJ branch of the CPUSA or PSL or wherever nnn. Maybe that'd be for the best though, so you can get out before Trump bans them both and rounds up the members Edited July 2 by wastedpotential 1 1 1
Chemist Posted July 2 Posted July 2 It feels like this is the beginning of truly chaotic 4 years in the US. What a mess
Relampago. Posted July 2 Posted July 2 Well what can I do I'm tired of caring. Come what may, I'm going to enjoy my life until I can't.
Suilen Posted July 2 Posted July 2 Why can't Democrats try impeaching the Trump-appointed judges on the basis of the clear lack of impartiality or something? I know they don't have the majority, but are they even considering this?
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