base talk Is Jennifer Lopez the main character of the music industry?

[Poncho Barlliams]

On 6/25/2024 at 2:54 AM, Pluto6 said:

 

You guys do not get the point since you're biased. Jennifer Lopez is indeed more famous globally than Mariah Carey. Not saying that she outsold Mariah in sales etc.

What is your metric for defining that JLO is more popular than Mariah? Maybe followers on Instagram, but those followers have no interest in consuming your music or going to your shows.

 

Mariah is about to sell out a stadium show in Brazil, something that JLo, a supposedly more popular Latin singer, has never achieved in her career.

[Pluto6]

13 minutes ago, Poncho Barlliams said:

What is your metric for defining that JLO is more popular than Mariah? Maybe followers on Instagram, but those followers have no interest in consuming your music or going to your shows.

 

Mariah is about to sell out a stadium show in Brazil, something that JLo, a supposedly more popular Latin singer, has never achieved in her career.

I don't think you're understanding the overall point. JLo's fanbase was never as big as some other musicians however whether people like her or not, she is the definition of being a "GP darling" who's reach is far more than the average music fan. Her simply existing is making tabloids everywhere all over the world. Imagine if a very powerful and influential celebrity like Kim Kardashian were to have a very successful music and acting career, that's basically JLo

 

Edited Wednesday at 05:03 PM by Pluto6

[Poncho Barlliams]

JLo is a second-tier film actress, she has never starred in a big blockbuster, she has never packed cinemas, she has never been among the highest paid actresses in the world.

 

Established actors are filling cinemas around the world, not streaming.

 

She started in music in 1998 and finished in 2005, gave her last breath in 2012 thanks to Pitbull, and after that she never had another musical success.

She is definitely a famous celebrity, but she is not a successful artist.

[Poncho Barlliams]

6 minutes ago, Pluto6 said:

I don't think you're understanding the overall point. JLo's fanbase was never as big as some other musicians however whether people like her or not, she is the definition of being a "GP darling" who's reach is far more than the average music fan. Her simply existing is making tabloids everywhere all over the world. Imagine if a very powerful and influential celebrity like Kim Kardashian were to have a very successful music and acting career, that's basically JLo

 

Now I understand, basically you defined an Instagram celebrity, so I don't understand why in this discussion.

 

Mariah Carey is artist, JLO's business is another.

[Pluto6]

9 minutes ago, Poncho Barlliams said:

JLo is a second-tier film actress, she has never starred in a big blockbuster, she has never packed cinemas, she has never been among the highest paid actresses in the world.

 

Established actors are filling cinemas around the world, not streaming.

 

She started in music in 1998 and finished in 2005, gave her last breath in 2012 thanks to Pitbull, and after that she never had another musical success.

She is definitely a famous celebrity, but she is not a successful artist.

Then why does she have a higher net worth than Mariah Carey, if she was never successful in anything according to you?  

 

Edited Wednesday at 05:13 PM by Pluto6

[Pluto6]

6 minutes ago, Poncho Barlliams said:

Now I understand, basically you defined an Instagram celebrity, so I don't understand why in this discussion.

 

Mariah Carey is artist, JLO's business is another.

She's definitely an entrepreneur who's very recognized globally with also a very successful music career and acting career 

 

Edited Wednesday at 05:15 PM by Pluto6

[Poncho Barlliams]

8 minutes ago, Pluto6 said:

Then why does she have a higher net worth than Mariah Carey, if she was never successful in anything according to you?  

 

 

her fortune comes from business as a businesswoman, not from music or cinema

[Pluto6]

12 minutes ago, Poncho Barlliams said:

 

her fortune comes from business as a businesswoman, not from music or cinema

We stan a businesswoman who's managed to build an empire and become successful in so many different areas, and being one of the richest women in the entertainment industry 

Edited Wednesday at 05:30 PM by Pluto6

[toxicgenie]

JLo is more popular than Mariah every month except November - December.

[stevyy]

On 6/25/2024 at 6:58 PM, Inverted said:

 

 

Nice try. The Eagles (and many other music acts) have outsold Jennifer Lopez worldwide. That doesn't make them them more recognizable or famous.

 

P.S. Let's not go into the the Asia nonsense. The other Mariah stan tried this in the other thread and used fake sales receipts they found on a 2000s Mariah fansite. Mariah's sales and 90s fame were concentrated in Japan, South Korea, the Philippines and maybe Taiwan, not the "the entire continent of Asia." That's like a teeny weeny percentage of the continent.

Not this nonsense again. 

 

So, nobody has been big anywhere then. 

 

Continents:

4,7 billion ppl - 48 countries - Asia

1,4 billion ppl - 54 countries - Africa

745 mill ppl - 44 countries - Europe

595 mill ppl - 23 countries - North America

435 mill ppl - 12 countries - South America

45 mill ppl - 16 countries - Oceania

 

## of viable music industries per continent between the 1980s and 2005

 

22 - Europe

9 - Asia

3 - North America

3-4 - South America

1-2 - Africa

2 - Oceania

 

Which doesn't only make Mariah virtually unknown in all the continents... it also makes Madonna, MJ and Co virtually unknown. And that even on both: sales in those continents in relation to population and certifications obtained in number of countries in reference to sovereign states in those continents. 

 

The music industry was dominated by 15 markets throughout its existance:

 

USA

Japan

UK

Germany

France

Canada

Australia

South Korea

Netherlands

Brazil

Russia

Mexico

China (incl. Hong Kong / Taiwan)

Italy

Spain

 

With the US accounting for 1/3 of all music sales by the 1990s. 

 

Those 15 countries accounted for like 85-95% of all (verifyable) music sales in the world. 

 

So Mariah performing in or getting certs in: Hong Kong, Taiwan, Phillippines, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, South Korea, Japan, Israel, Turkey and Mainland China is in itself HUGE.

 

Since countries like East Timor, Laos, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Iraq, Nepal, Bhutan etc. were non-factors on a global scale or for international artists. Madonna didn't get any certs in those countries during the 80s, 90s and early 00s either. 

 

India is kinda like the joker, unauthorized physical products may have sold ishloads of copies (unverifyable) and as an emerging music industry, it is a HUGE market for domestic artists for sure. (Maybe Iran as well). But why do you think that only Mariah would need to have slayed those markets when in fact whatever she or other acts did there is unverifyable?

 

Same in Europe. Western Europe being the front runner, Eastern Europe being mostly unverifyable with a few exceptions. And many markets became emerging markets in the decades after the collapse of the Soviet Union and have established viable music industries in the past 25-30 years... But where are them international girls Moldovian sales at?

 

Africa is like literally unverifyable, except for maybe South Africa and to some degree Morocco / Algeria and maybe Egypt? There are a ton of emerging music industries for sure NOW, but not back then.

 

And when we're talking about Oceania... we basically only ever focus on Australia and to a lesser degree on NZ... what about Micronesia? Samoa? Tuvalu? Tonga, Nauru, Kiribati?

 

By your logic even Madonna is virtually unknown in Oceania. 

 

Well, in Mariah's case and Asia, sure... the majority of her sales come from Japan, but that's not the only market where she's been successful. 

 

Chartsmasters lists her at over 30 million albums sales for Asia of which Japan is one countries, as well as RSK or Taiwan or Hong Kong (until 1997) or Thailand, Malaysia etc. and that number is so high that Mariah is currently the only non-Asian female artist who has reached that. 

 

Instead of downplaying that, take it for what it is. 

 

Otherwise Madonna's 75 million albums sales in Europe must be considered heavely and densely concentration in the continents major 5 markets as well, especially in the UK. 

 

Your opinion is flawed here. 

 

 

 

 

[stevyy]

On 6/25/2024 at 6:58 PM, Inverted said:

 

 

Nice try. The Eagles (and many other music acts) have outsold Jennifer Lopez worldwide. That doesn't make them them more recognizable or famous.

 

P.S. Let's not go into the the Asia nonsense. The other Mariah stan tried this in the other thread and used fake sales receipts they found on a 2000s Mariah fansite. Mariah's sales and 90s fame were concentrated in Japan, South Korea, the Philippines and maybe Taiwan, not the "the entire continent of Asia." That's like a teeny weeny percentage of the continent.

Not this nonsense again. 

 

So, nobody has been big anywhere then. 

 

Continents:

4,7 billion ppl - 48 countries - Asia

1,4 billion ppl - 54 countries - Africa

745 mill ppl - 44 countries - Europe

595 mill ppl - 23 countries - North America

435 mill ppl - 12 countries - South America

45 mill ppl - 16 countries - Oceania

 

## of viable music industries per continent between the 1980s and 2005

 

22 - Europe

9 - Asia

3 - North America

3-4 - South America

1-2 - Africa

2 - Oceania

 

Which doesn't only make Mariah virtually unknown in all the continents... it also makes Madonna, MJ and Co virtually unknown. And that even on both: sales in those continents in relation to population and certifications obtained in number of countries in reference to sovereign states in those continents. 

 

The music industry was dominated by 15 markets throughout its existance:

 

USA

Japan

UK

Germany

France

Canada

Australia

South Korea

Netherlands

Brazil

Russia

Mexico

China (incl. Hong Kong / Taiwan)

Italy

Spain

 

With the US accounting for 1/3 of all music sales by the 1990s. 

 

Those 15 countries accounted for like 85-95% of all (verifyable) music sales in the world. 

 

So Mariah performing in or getting certs in: Hong Kong, Taiwan, Phillippines, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, South Korea, Japan, Israel, Turkey and Mainland China is in itself HUGE.

 

Since countries like East Timor, Laos, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Iraq, Nepal, Bhutan etc. were non-factors on a global scale or for international artists. Madonna didn't get any certs in those countries during the 80s, 90s and early 00s either. 

 

India is kinda like the joker, unauthorized physical products may have sold ishloads of copies (unverifyable) and as an emerging music industry, it is a HUGE market for domestic artists for sure. (Maybe Iran as well). But why do you think that only Mariah would need to have slayed those markets when in fact whatever she or other acts did there is unverifyable?

 

Same in Europe. Western Europe being the front runner, Eastern Europe being mostly unverifyable with a few exceptions. And many markets became emerging markets in the decades after the collapse of the Soviet Union and have established viable music industries in the past 25-30 years... But where are them international girls Moldovian sales at?

 

Africa is like literally unverifyable, except for maybe South Africa and to some degree Morocco / Algeria and maybe Egypt? There are a ton of emerging music industries for sure NOW, but not back then.

 

And when we're talking about Oceania... we basically only ever focus on Australia and to a lesser degree on NZ... what about Micronesia? Samoa? Tuvalu? Tonga, Nauru, Kiribati?

 

By your logic even Madonna is virtually unknown in Oceania. 

 

Well, in Mariah's case and Asia, sure... the majority of her sales come from Japan, but that's not the only market where she's been successful. 

 

Chartsmasters lists her at over 30 million albums sales for Asia of which Japan is one countries, as well as RSK or Taiwan or Hong Kong (until 1997) or Thailand, Malaysia etc. and that number is so high that Mariah is currently the only non-Asian female artist who has reached that. 

 

Instead of downplaying that, take it for what it is. 

 

Otherwise Madonna's 75 million albums sales in Europe must be considered heavely and densely concentration in the continents major 5 markets as well, especially in the UK. 

 

Your opinion is flawed here. 

 

 

 

 

[Inverted]

21 hours ago, stevyy said:

Not this nonsense again. 

 

So, nobody has been big anywhere then. 

 

Continents:

4,7 billion ppl - 48 countries - Asia

1,4 billion ppl - 54 countries - Africa

745 mill ppl - 44 countries - Europe

595 mill ppl - 23 countries - North America

435 mill ppl - 12 countries - South America

45 mill ppl - 16 countries - Oceania

 

## of viable music industries per continent between the 1980s and 2005

 

22 - Europe

9 - Asia

3 - North America

3-4 - South America

1-2 - Africa

2 - Oceania

 

Which doesn't only make Mariah virtually unknown in all the continents... it also makes Madonna, MJ and Co virtually unknown. And that even on both: sales in those continents in relation to population and certifications obtained in number of countries in reference to sovereign states in those continents. 

 

The music industry was dominated by 15 markets throughout its existance:

 

USA

Japan

UK

Germany

France

Canada

Australia

South Korea

Netherlands

Brazil

Russia

Mexico

China (incl. Hong Kong / Taiwan)

Italy

Spain

 

With the US accounting for 1/3 of all music sales by the 1990s. 

 

Those 15 countries accounted for like 85-95% of all (verifyable) music sales in the world. 

 

So Mariah performing in or getting certs in: Hong Kong, Taiwan, Phillippines, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, South Korea, Japan, Israel, Turkey and Mainland China is in itself HUGE.

 

Since countries like East Timor, Laos, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Iraq, Nepal, Bhutan etc. were non-factors on a global scale or for international artists. Madonna didn't get any certs in those countries during the 80s, 90s and early 00s either. 

 

India is kinda like the joker, unauthorized physical products may have sold ishloads of copies (unverifyable) and as an emerging music industry, it is a HUGE market for domestic artists for sure. (Maybe Iran as well). But why do you think that only Mariah would need to have slayed those markets when in fact whatever she or other acts did there is unverifyable?

 

Same in Europe. Western Europe being the front runner, Eastern Europe being mostly unverifyable with a few exceptions. And many markets became emerging markets in the decades after the collapse of the Soviet Union and have established viable music industries in the past 25-30 years... But where are them international girls Moldovian sales at?

 

Africa is like literally unverifyable, except for maybe South Africa and to some degree Morocco / Algeria and maybe Egypt? There are a ton of emerging music industries for sure NOW, but not back then.

 

And when we're talking about Oceania... we basically only ever focus on Australia and to a lesser degree on NZ... what about Micronesia? Samoa? Tuvalu? Tonga, Nauru, Kiribati?

 

By your logic even Madonna is virtually unknown in Oceania. 

 

Well, in Mariah's case and Asia, sure... the majority of her sales come from Japan, but that's not the only market where she's been successful. 

 

Chartsmasters lists her at over 30 million albums sales for Asia of which Japan is one countries, as well as RSK or Taiwan or Hong Kong (until 1997) or Thailand, Malaysia etc. and that number is so high that Mariah is currently the only non-Asian female artist who has reached that. 

 

Instead of downplaying that, take it for what it is. 

 

Otherwise Madonna's 75 million albums sales in Europe must be considered heavely and densely concentration in the continents major 5 markets as well, especially in the UK. 

 

Your opinion is flawed here. 

 

 

 

 

 

21 hours ago, stevyy said:

Not this nonsense again. 

 

So, nobody has been big anywhere then. 

 

Continents:

4,7 billion ppl - 48 countries - Asia

1,4 billion ppl - 54 countries - Africa

745 mill ppl - 44 countries - Europe

595 mill ppl - 23 countries - North America

435 mill ppl - 12 countries - South America

45 mill ppl - 16 countries - Oceania

 

## of viable music industries per continent between the 1980s and 2005

 

22 - Europe

9 - Asia

3 - North America

3-4 - South America

1-2 - Africa

2 - Oceania

 

Which doesn't only make Mariah virtually unknown in all the continents... it also makes Madonna, MJ and Co virtually unknown. And that even on both: sales in those continents in relation to population and certifications obtained in number of countries in reference to sovereign states in those continents. 

 

The music industry was dominated by 15 markets throughout its existance:

 

USA

Japan

UK

Germany

France

Canada

Australia

South Korea

Netherlands

Brazil

Russia

Mexico

China (incl. Hong Kong / Taiwan)

Italy

Spain

 

With the US accounting for 1/3 of all music sales by the 1990s. 

 

Those 15 countries accounted for like 85-95% of all (verifyable) music sales in the world. 

 

So Mariah performing in or getting certs in: Hong Kong, Taiwan, Phillippines, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, South Korea, Japan, Israel, Turkey and Mainland China is in itself HUGE.

 

Since countries like East Timor, Laos, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Iraq, Nepal, Bhutan etc. were non-factors on a global scale or for international artists. Madonna didn't get any certs in those countries during the 80s, 90s and early 00s either. 

 

India is kinda like the joker, unauthorized physical products may have sold ishloads of copies (unverifyable) and as an emerging music industry, it is a HUGE market for domestic artists for sure. (Maybe Iran as well). But why do you think that only Mariah would need to have slayed those markets when in fact whatever she or other acts did there is unverifyable?

 

Same in Europe. Western Europe being the front runner, Eastern Europe being mostly unverifyable with a few exceptions. And many markets became emerging markets in the decades after the collapse of the Soviet Union and have established viable music industries in the past 25-30 years... But where are them international girls Moldovian sales at?

 

Africa is like literally unverifyable, except for maybe South Africa and to some degree Morocco / Algeria and maybe Egypt? There are a ton of emerging music industries for sure NOW, but not back then.

 

And when we're talking about Oceania... we basically only ever focus on Australia and to a lesser degree on NZ... what about Micronesia? Samoa? Tuvalu? Tonga, Nauru, Kiribati?

 

By your logic even Madonna is virtually unknown in Oceania. 

 

Well, in Mariah's case and Asia, sure... the majority of her sales come from Japan, but that's not the only market where she's been successful. 

 

Chartsmasters lists her at over 30 million albums sales for Asia of which Japan is one countries, as well as RSK or Taiwan or Hong Kong (until 1997) or Thailand, Malaysia etc. and that number is so high that Mariah is currently the only non-Asian female artist who has reached that. 

 

Instead of downplaying that, take it for what it is. 

 

Otherwise Madonna's 75 million albums sales in Europe must be considered heavely and densely concentration in the continents major 5 markets as well, especially in the UK. 

 

Your opinion is flawed here. 

 

 

 

 

We've gone through this before. First of all, I've never diminished Mariah's very impressive accomplishments in terms of penetrating Japan, South Korea, the Philippines and Taiwan (which most western artists besides a handful could never do), but I would never ever say that's Asia. That's the disconnect here. You just don't get that it's an insignificant part of Asia population-wise whether or not Japan, Taiwan South Korea were the only ones with an established music market with verified sales.

 

And your analogies are ridiculous. Dominating Oceania would mean dominating AUS and NZ because they make up the vast majority of the population of Oceania. The Pacific Islands like Samoa barely have a big population. In fact, you're just supporting my point by saying this. South Korea and Japan's populations are insignificant to Asia as a whole.  The same applies to countries like Bhutan, Laos, etc. Let's  please focus on countries with actual significant populations that listen to music.

 

Also, if you're going to use the "performed there" argument, areas like sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East, North Africa, India and the rest of South Asia, Southeast Asia are certainly areas that can be measured. Michael Jackson has zero certifications in North Africa, the Middle East sub-Saharan Africa, and South Asia, but he performed there to a large audiences so it's obvious he had popularity in Asia and Africa.

Finally, please stop listing countries like Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Israel, Philippines, mainland China, Hong Kong, Turkey, etc. as countries with proper certifications before the 2010s. We can verify that Mariah is/was very popular in a country like the Philippines because of obvious reasons, but they did not have actual verifiable certifications until recently thanks to extreme bootlegging like in India, Indonesia and Thailand (virtually all cassette and CD sales were unauthorized fake products).