base talk TTPD: An In-Depth Analysis

[NEX]

29 minutes ago, Achilles. said:

Your comments on My Boy and Down Bad are interesting and somewhat in line with my own. I think the songs expose the difficulty of writing songs with extended metaphors. It works with something like "Miss Americana," because it was a somewhat novel concept and point of view that was obviously informed by her personal experience.
 

My Boy and Down Bad, on the other hand, come across as generic and utilize concepts that have been done to death in pop music. Is there a single female pop star that doesn't have a song comparing herself to a doll in one way or another? Especially when the whole Barbie thing just happened. But I don't really think that they're bad necessarily… just not special. To me, they're the mid filler of the album and her catalog; they're not skips, but they're nowhere near the conversation of her best work. 
 

Disagree on a few other points, but I'm glad to see your positive ratings of Florida!!! and I Can Fix Him. I like London and Slammer a lot more than you, though.
 

Can't say I agree about Clara Bow having dull melodies, either, considering it was the first song from the album that I memorized; it still might be the only song on this half that I know all the words to, actually. 

I think I would have probably enjoyed My Boy and Down Bad more if they were released by someone like Katy instead. I guess my expectations for Taylor, especially her writing, are quite high. The only thing about Slammer that pisses me off are the vocals in that one part, otherwise a good track if we ignore the metaphor-gallore. 

[NEX]

27 minutes ago, TaylenaStan said:

Could have been harsher on some songs like The Tortured Baguettes Department (titletrack) or The Flopchemy 
Fresh Out The Slammer deserves better, but kinda agree with most of the rest 
@HackAntonoff get a job, stay away form ha 

 

Gurl, I was already quite harsh on those The Alchemy chorus is really good 

[liam13]

you don't see people do this for supposed "better at crafting music" artists 

 

anyway, i ain't reading allat. i saw you wrote that loml is excellent and i just know your opinions might be the same as mine. cheers for that 

[Goaty]

I will be eagerly waiting for your takes on The Anthology. 

[Goaty]

4 hours ago, NEX said:

So Long, London
Lyrics: 6 | Melodies: 6 | Production: 5 | Verdict: Mid

 

That intro is really annoying. And the production is a little confusing because it doesn't go well with the lyrics at all. The lyrics are ok, but somehow aren't focused enough and don't capture well what she's trying to convey. Lots of unnecessary metaphors on this one as well, but at least they are not as suffocating. Overall, a very poor choice for Track 5, which was always meant to serve as the emotional centerpiece of her records.

 

I have similar criticisms of the song (though I would rate it higher than you do). The lyrics in particular puzzle me because they're clearly written with great pain and sadness, but I feel neither when I listen to it? They don't feel anchored to anything. Contrast it with something like All Too Well where the little emotional details (the scarf in the drawer, dancing in the kitchen light, Jake being so enamored with Taylor in the car that he almost runs a red light) give just enough real insight into their dynamic that the climax of the song actually hits hard to me, the listener, when she ends up crumpled on the floor. But in SLL, it's just line after line of stomach-churning heartache that is devoid of its needed context, buildup, and appropriate instrumentation.

 

IDK if you're familiar with The Cure, but Robert Smith made an 8-minute-long gut-wrenching song ("Disintegration" - what I consider the gold standard of heartbreak in music) and one of the reasons it actually works so well is that the track preceding it is 10 minutes of buildup. And then the track after "Disintegration" feels almost like a comedown of deep breaths after having spent the entire last song breaking down and hyperventilating. Meanwhile, SLL is sandwiched between Down Bad and BDILH  Big emotional songs kind of need enough space to shine and I don't think she gave this one the treatment it needed.

Edited Sunday at 08:20 PM by Goaty

[NEX]

38 minutes ago, Goaty said:

I will be eagerly waiting for your takes on The Anthology. 

Coming soon if i'm not too lazy 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Goaty said:

I have similar criticisms of the song (though I would rate it higher than you do). The lyrics in particular puzzle me because they're clearly written with great pain and sadness, but I feel neither when I listen to it? They don't feel anchored to anything. Contrast it with something like All Too Well where the little emotional details (the scarf in the drawer, dancing in the kitchen light, Jake being so enamored with Taylor in the car that he almost runs a red light) give just enough real insight into their dynamic that the climax of the song actually hits hard to me, the listener, when she ends up crumpled on the floor. But in SLL, it's just line after line of stomach-churning heartache that is devoid of its needed context, buildup, and appropriate instrumentation.

 

IDK if you're familiar with The Cure, but Robert Smith made an 8-minute-long gut-wrenching song ("Disintegration" - what I consider the gold standard of heartbreak in music) and one of the reasons it actually works so well is that the track preceding it is 10 minutes of buildup. And then the track after "Disintegration" feels almost like a comedown of deep breaths after having spent the entire last song breaking down and hyperventilating. Meanwhile, SLL is sandwiched between Down Bad and BDILH  Big emotional songs kind of need enough space to shine and I don't think she gave this one the treatment it needed.

I think a lot of the emotional disconnect is coming from the metaphor rich lyrics. They are very dense and they come one after another and none of them really stick. Just check the lyrics in the first verse:

 

I saw in my mind fairy lights through the mist
I kept calm and carried the weight of the rift
Pulled him in tighter each time he was drifting away
My spine split from carrying us up the hill
Wet through my clothes, weary bones caught the chill
I stopped trying to make him laugh
Stopped trying to drill the safe

 

That's just way too many metaphors for such a short verse (and the rest of the song is very similar). Only one sentence is written in plain language. It's very confusing trying to decipher what is actually happening when it's not even anchored, like you said, in anything. The emotional detail is missing because she didn't lay it down first. In All Too Well she is painting a very clear picture with plain language. Some of that plain language has double meaning (like the scarf or the door), but it's not distracting from the main thread. There's an occasional metaphor in there as well, but it is used to emphasise the preceding lines to a greater extent. And most importantly she's not trying to come up with as many metaphors with similar meanings as she can. Can you imagine All Too Well with 20 different paper or scarf metaphors. 

 

And btw, ye I love that Cure album. 

[NEX]

@feelslikeadream can we expect a response thread for this as well?

 

Also, @Wicked @Klein @Dear Reader @PoisonedIvy 

[Klein]

Just now, NEX said:

@feelslikeadream can we expect a response thread for this as well?

 

Also, @Wicked @Klein @Dear Reader @PoisonedIvy 

I think I already told you last time that we were in disagreement about TTPD. Do you really want a re-run of that with nothing more to add to the conversation? You wanted to have a plateform where you could criticize the album without being harassed by Swifties, and now you're asking us to respond to your takes? What is it that you actually want?

 

We just have fundamentally different opinions about the album. And that's ok, it's fine if you don't like it. 

[greento]

3 hours ago, Loca said:

This is a good thread to expose brainless members 

Yes like the OP 

[PoisonedIvy]

22 minutes ago, NEX said:

@feelslikeadream can we expect a response thread for this as well?

 

Also, @Wicked @Klein @Dear Reader @PoisonedIvy 

I don't really care about anyone else's opinion of the album because mine is the only one that matters to me  

 

The less people that like it the more I feel proud and certain of my enjoyment in it. Just like evermore

[NEX]

7 minutes ago, PoisonedIvy said:

I don't really care about anyone else's opinion of the album because mine is the only one that matters to me  

You cared about the opinions in my last thread. And also let's not forget the Anti-Taylor Base 

[PoisonedIvy]

4 minutes ago, NEX said:

You cared about the opinions in my last thread. And also let's not forget the Anti-Taylor Base 

I've gotten some rest and remembered others opinions don't matter, but I'm glad you know how you feel.

[Wicked]

6 hours ago, NEX said:

The album demands darker, clearer and heavier production. Instead we got very muddy, very middle of the road, uninteresting production choices over the course of the entire album.

This is my problem with most of her output over the last few years... It's DULL and idec. I'd change a lot of those in the OP to deletes personally (Fresh Out The Slammer is one of the worst songs I've ever heard), I think you were generous with your melody and production points. Great overview and song break down

 

Maybe I'm a harsher rater though, I just felt like nothing grabbed me. Maybe I'll listen to the album again. 

[feelslikeadream]

2 hours ago, NEX said:

@feelslikeadream can we expect a response thread for this as well?

 

Also, @Wicked @Klein @Dear Reader @PoisonedIvy 

You have Clara Bow's production a 6 and My Boy's lyrics a 1; why would I waste my time responding to this?

 

But thanks for bringing this to my attention so I can move it into the album thread where it belongs

 

[Arrows]

You know what? I can actually really respect this review. You're doing what 90% of music journalists can't do, which is discuss the actual music instead of filling half the review with tabloid gossip and copy-pasted popular tweets. I don't necessarily agree with a lot of your opinions (I do agree on some of them), but people have different opinions and that's okay.

[NEX]

24 minutes ago, Wicked said:

This is my problem with most of her output over the last few years... It's DULL and idec. I'd change a lot of those in the OP to deletes personally (Fresh Out The Slammer is one of the worst songs I've ever heard), I think you were generous with your melody and production points. Great overview and song break down

 

Maybe I'm a harsher rater though, I just felt like nothing grabbed me. Maybe I'll listen to the album again. 

I was trying to be fair. But I've been listening to it a lot since release so that could have influenced my ratings. 

[NEX]

17 minutes ago, feelslikeadream said:

But thanks for bringing this to my attention so I can move it into the album thread where it belongs

[LastGreatBloodline]

I think you made some fair points, the production is my main problem with the album too. But Daddy I Love Him can have the best lyrics of all time but I cannot listen to that horrible production. On the other hand Down Bad and Toys might be dumb but at least they bop.   

[NEX]

20 minutes ago, Arrows said:

You know what? I can actually really respect this review. You're doing what 90% of music journalists can't do, which is discuss the actual music instead of filling half the review with tabloid gossip and copy-pasted popular tweets. I don't necessarily agree with a lot of your opinions (I do agree on some of them), but people have different opinions and that's okay.

I think a lot of them are pre-written way in advance with personal life details and gossip. And then they have blank sections to include something relevant about the music itself and copy-paste a few lyrics. In this modern age of needing to get a review out ASAP, there's no time for any kind of in-depth analysis. 

[Treason]

You were a lot more generous than I was with these scores ..... and I've been a Swiftie since 2008. 

 

[NEX]

8 hours ago, Diesel is Desire said:

You were a lot more generous than I was with these scores ..... and I've been a Swiftie since 2008. 

 

What if I roll the stone away?
They're gonna crucify me anyway

 

I was scared of the Swifties 

 

But nah, I dunno. I can't hate it as much as I want to. It's not a very good album by Taylor's standards, but I still can't call it outright bad. Though I understand where the hate is coming from - certain production choices were criminal and the songs simply don't grab you the way they could have.