mike_int Posted June 11 Posted June 11 (edited) 32 minutes ago, M-P-B said: who do you consider an actual expert though? it's not like the staff at Pitchfork or Variety or any other publication are more qualified than Fantano, at the end of the day reviews are just opinions on subject the reviewers find interesting, in this case, music... you don't need any specific education or qualifications to have and share an opinion... if you manage to find an audience that will regularly support your reviews, they will start to value your opinion, I don't think that's as bad of a thing as you make it out to be For me an expert in anything is someone with education and/or knowledge and/or experience in the field. Im a clinical psychologist and I have worked on a political campaign for 12 months and then 18 months in entertainment industry where my main role was to evaluate how media affects decisions of general public, we also used youtubers and influencers when opinion in certain demographic needed to be "adjusted", the results were scary, especially in young people from 12-25 and then 50 up. My comment was not only about this particular youtube but in general, applies also for various journalists etc. Edited June 11 by mike_int 1
fromily Posted June 11 Posted June 11 not to make it serious for a moment but... this is not surprising just based on stats. women have a harder time becoming musicians at all because they're generally poorer (have less of their own money to invest in creative pursuits) and generally spend more time doing unpaid labour (maintaining a household, caring for children or family members) and therefore have less time to pursue a dream & hone a skill such as music. so less money and less time for women to become musicians right off the bat. the same obviously goes even moreso for woc in predominantly white areas. then on top of that, most of the people working behind the scenes in the industry (at every level) are men who (we know from studies) will take women musicians less seriously & offer them less $$$ for their work. some men may even make sexual advances or sexually assault them. this undoubtedly results in many women being fired/having their careers shut down if the sexual advances are rejected and of course many women no doubt quit due to the unsafe work environment and/or trauma. THEN there are the additional demands that are made of women musicians and ESPECIALLY woc. they have to meet crazy beauty standards (this obviously varies depending on genre and marketing but still) AND be willing to get near naked for promo. this isn't a discussion about women's rights to show their body/**** shaming - it's a simple fact that no man has to be comfortable being filmed/photographed almost nude in order to make it in music. but MOST women musicians either have to be comfortable, or force themselves to be comfortable, showing a lot more skin than the average woman on the street in order to pursue a career in music (again, somewhat genre dependent but 100% true if we're talking about pop, which we are). so say a woman musician (and a woc at that) makes it through all these obstacles (which are ongoing) and actually releases music. consumers (both men and women) are more likely to judge music released by men on its merits than they are music released by women. music released by women is often judged not only on its merits but the appearance/attitude/personal life of the woman who released it. this forces women to be more careful about/conscious of how they present themselves. and for some reason we also feel like we can't have too many women excelling in one genre at once (forcing them to compete for the few available spots) DESPITE the fact that no one will ever question the need for another male rapper/country singer/dj/band etc etc etc. and when women do succeed we are also more likely to attribute their successes to the men around them than we do their male counterparts. all this makes women's position in the music industry extremely fragile and therefore makes it harder for them to take risks/experiment. honestly i don't even have time to go into how pop as a genre is devalued as a result of the relatively high percentage of women working in it but that's important too. critics (who AGAIN are mostly men) are not immune to all this cultural baggage that devalues the music that women make. the musical 'canon' if you will has been established and upheld by men for centuries now and it continues to predispose critics to music made by men. so it's zero % surprising to me that mr anthony fantano would never have given a pop girl or a solo woc a 10/10 before june 2024. there's less material by women out there for him to review because there are less women musicians in the industry in the first place (for reasons described above) and what music these women do release is still held to a different standard than that of their male peers, so a lot of it wouldn't even be considered worthy of serious review. THEN, after all that, he does actually have to like it enough to give it a relatively rare rating ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ sources: reality. honestly what am i supposed to link? like every study that's ever been done on women in music, the gender gap, the me too movement and sexism? Spoiler me @ me rn
bielneira Posted June 11 Posted June 11 43 minutes ago, mike_int said: We live in world when some random YouTuber's opinion is valued like some kind of expert's Not even those who write reviews for magazines are experts. They are just appreciators of music like us. The thing is: we should stop caring that much for someone else's opinion
mike_int Posted June 11 Posted June 11 (edited) 12 minutes ago, bielneira said: Not even those who write reviews for magazines are experts. They are just appreciators of music like us. The thing is: we should stop caring that much for someone else's opinion I have never said they are, and I agree. We shoudlnt shape our opinions based on others, but funny enough, social media is making people more anti-social, so they are looking for connections online and change their opinions to be part of a group rather than stand behind their personal opinion. This is an issue with lot of people in teenage years and under 30. Im 32 btw, so I dont get another "boomer" comment LOL Edited June 11 by mike_int
Raphy23 Posted June 11 Posted June 11 1 hour ago, Daddy said: People laughing at the term WOC are giving racism. wouldnt it be the OP giving racism using the term incorrectly?
McNulty Posted June 11 Posted June 11 1 hour ago, mike_int said: I have never said they are, and I agree. We shoudlnt shape our opinions based on others, but funny enough, social media is making people more anti-social, so they are looking for connections online and change their opinions to be part of a group rather than stand behind their personal opinion. This is an issue with lot of people in teenage years and under 30. Im 32 btw, so I dont get another "boomer" comment LOL It's not a social media issue tho, it's human nature needing to be part of a group
Ewan Chaos Posted June 11 Posted June 11 Not the Spellling erasure You never know when he or P4K like to be quirky and contrarian so I wasn't 100% sure he'd stan. Kinda makes sense after his light panning of Crash tho. I'm mainly happy self-titled isn't his highest rated Charli album anymore. Great album but a 9 and best album of 2019 SURE JAN.
Daddy Posted June 11 Posted June 11 1 hour ago, Raphy23 said: what colour exactly is this woman? 58 minutes ago, Raphy23 said: wouldnt it be the OP giving racism using the term incorrectly? Charlis mother Shameera was a refugee from Uganda coming to the UK in the 70s. Charli is half Indian Ugandan. She was bullied for her unibrow in school and had two different experiences in school and at home. Pretending someone is purely white when their features are obviously not only white is weird. The only error the OP made is that Spellling is an incredible black artist, so the title in general is wrong but not the "WOC" in there.
bielneira Posted June 11 Posted June 11 2 hours ago, mike_int said: I have never said they are, and I agree. We shoudlnt shape our opinions based on others, but funny enough, social media is making people more anti-social, so they are looking for connections online and change their opinions to be part of a group rather than stand behind their personal opinion. This is an issue with lot of people in teenage years and under 30. Im 32 btw, so I dont get another "boomer" comment LOL I totally agree! Speaking of music, I truly believe it can be reviewed critically, based on terms of quality, but it's definitely not what those magazines do. So, I don't see a difference between them and any of us sharing our personal opinions here. 1
mike_int Posted June 11 Posted June 11 Just now, bielneira said: I totally agree! Speaking of music, I truly believe it can be reviewed critically, based on terms of quality, but it's definitely not what those magazines do. So, I don't see a difference between them and any of us sharing our personal opinions here. Maybe I take it more personally cause I was always very interested in music and I consider myself an audiophile, I also study music in high school and 2 years in university simultaneously with psychology but then I stopped and pursued only psychology 1
bielneira Posted June 11 Posted June 11 4 minutes ago, mike_int said: Maybe I take it more personally cause I was always very interested in music and I consider myself an audiophile, I also study music in high school and 2 years in university simultaneously with psychology but then I stopped and pursued only psychology Mind you those "critics" probably don't even know how to interpret a musical score
Kiel D-01 Posted June 11 Posted June 11 The fact that gays put this man's opinions on a pedestal is . 1
justin. Posted June 11 Posted June 11 Can the mother's basement they run The Needle Drop out of have immense success? Spoiler I don't actually care about his opinion, but Charli deserves every bit of praise
Moonlight Nation Posted June 11 Posted June 11 (edited) It's important to note that ever since creating his YouTube channel in January 2009, Fantano has only given 10s to eight albums, with the last three being from female artists. And as others have pointed out, SPELLLING is a black woman, so Charli isn't the first non-white female artist to get the honour like OP is claiming. In addition, Fantano made a video talking about older albums he'd consider 10/10, which include "The Miseducation Of Lauryn Hill" and "Nina Simone Sings The Blues". That's already a far better track record than Pitchfork, which is an institution consisting of several reviewers rather than just one guy with his own set of preferences. I only casually follow his content, but just from what I've seen it's clear he's not this misogynistic 'incel' some folks here like to paint him as. Outside of Kacey Musgraves' "Golden Hour" which simply wasn't his thing, he's never been unfairly harsh on a pop girl album that got otherwise good to strong reviews. Hell, this is the guy who stood by his positive review of a Sexyy Red album despite a big chunk of his fanbase mocking him for it. He also never misses an opportunity to give Janet Jackson her flowers, including expressing annoyance that she wasn't featured on the Spotle game due to a lacking streaming presence. So while I don't always agree with his takes, he's good in my book and someone I respect as a reviewer - much more than the majority of the corporate reviewing institutions. Edited June 11 by Moonlight Nation 1
Recommended Posts