charts discussion UK Mid: Houdini 2x #1, BIRDS OF A FEATHER #4, Please Please Please #5, Genesis #18

[family.guy123]

1 hour ago, makeawish said:

Imo the real issue in the uk album chart is that - for some god knows what reason - they discount the streams of the two biggest tracks on every album, cutting them down to the average of the rest (maybe to differentiate from the singles chart? Idk).
 

This means that it's really hard for new albums with less than three big hits to get a foothold while ofc greatest hits albums are really not troubled by that at all.
 

If they got rid of that, it would probably look a lot more like the billboard 200, except there'd still be the odd britpop band going in the top 5 and then tanking in week two

It's to differentiate from the singles chart, as you said. What's so confusing about that? Popularity of a single should be reflected in the singles chart, not the albums chart. Groundbreaking, I know. 

[wigglytuffer]

35 minutes ago, Both Sides Now said:

Is there a physical / streaming breakdown for brat? 
 

The UK charts doesn't reward streams with much EAS. Considering most of brat's physical sales were probably pre-orders too, I think it'll be a tight race. 
 

CRASH's breakdown:

 

5,339 CDs, 5,351 vinyl albums, 1,106 cassette, 496 digital downloads and 3,825 sales-equivalent streams. 

hasn't been posted but when i find it i'll post, normally another update around Wednesday!

[makeawish]

17 minutes ago, family.guy123 said:

It's to differentiate from the singles chart, as you said. What's so confusing about that? Popularity of a single should be reflected in the singles chart, not the albums chart. Groundbreaking, I know. 

those albums also feature those singles. the rules makes the album chart stagnant and boring.

 

there are only about a dozen albums at any one time that manage to stay on the chart between one and six months, everything else either sinks in the first month or is a mega seller that survives for years (either greatest hits or classics of the tens usually). it tells us very little other than that people like to listen to abba gold, born to die and teenage dream.

 

the uk has weird rules for its singles chart but they have a function: they keep things moving at a reasonable pace while still giving space for there to be plenty of long term hits. by comparison, the album chart is a mess.

Edited June 10 by makeawish

[family.guy123]

2 minutes ago, makeawish said:

those albums also feature those singles. the rules makes the album chart stagnant and boring.

 

there are only about a dozen albums at any one time that manage to stay on the chart between one and six months, everything else either sinks in the first month or is a mega seller that survives for years (either greatest hits or classics of the tens usually). it tells us very little other than that people like to listen to abba gold, born to die and teenage dream.

 

the uk has weird rules for its singles chart but they have a function: they keep things moving at a reasonable pace while still giving space for there to be big long term hits. by comparison, the album chart is a mess.

Well it's a reflection of the reality. People clearly aren't listening to newer albums as a whole as much as they are the classics. 
 

"it tells us very little other than that people like to listen to abba gold, born to die and teenage dream" 

 

What else are you wanting the charts to tell you, other than what people are listening to? 

[makeawish]

6 minutes ago, family.guy123 said:

What else are you wanting the charts to tell you, other than what people are listening to? 

what they're listening to without interfering rules docking the streams of successful songs. it's not like every album bought in the pre streaming era was bought for its filler album tracks

[family.guy123]

1 minute ago, makeawish said:

what they're listening to without interfering rules docking the streams of successful songs. it's not like every album bought in the pre streaming era was bought for its filler album tracks

But we're in the streaming era now where we can more accurately determine what is being consumed. 
 

If somebody bought an album in 2000 and only listened to the lead single, obviously those plays should have counted towards the single chart and not the album chart, but there was no way to determine that like there is now. 
 

Streams aren't being docked from successful songs, their popularity is reflected in the singles chart (where there's a weird ACR rule thing that you don't have a problem with cause you like the results it gives, even though it docks streams of songs people are actually listening to) im against ACR, personally (if I understand it correctly) 

[Both Sides Now]

13 minutes ago, family.guy123 said:

Well it's a reflection of the reality. People clearly aren't listening to newer albums as a whole as much as they are the classics. 
 

"it tells us very little other than that people like to listen to abba gold, born to die and teenage dream" 

 

What else are you wanting the charts to tell you, other than what people are listening to? 

Yeah - but that's not really what's happening. "Albums" like The Highlights are essentially "This Is…" playlists. It has 36 songs with later additions from Dawn FM and The Idol that came 3 years after The Highlights was released. Diamonds was released in 2017 but has Hold Me Closer (2022) on it ffs  This is not how albums were consumed prior to streaming. Your CD didn't update and count as an extra sale. 

 

Penalising albums carried by a couple songs was well-intentioned but clearly doesn't work. There are essentially no new smash albums in the UK (sans Taylor) as a result because you are biassing toward greatest hits and classic albums that have had full single rollouts. 
 

For example, despite debuting at #2, RAYE's album only had 6 weeks on the charts prior to winning at the BRITS because its main success (Escapism.) was effectively deleted. The British charts are a really poor reflection of what is popular in music. 

[family.guy123]

5 minutes ago, Both Sides Now said:

Yeah - but that's not really what's happening. "Albums" like The Highlights are essentially "This Is…" playlists. It has 36 songs with later additions from Dawn FM and The Idol that came 3 years after The Highlights was released. Diamonds was released in 2017 but has Hold Me Closer (2022) on it ffs  This is not how albums were consumed prior to streaming. Your CD didn't update and count as an extra sale. 

 

Penalising albums carried by a couple songs was well-intentioned but clearly doesn't work. There are essentially no new smash albums in the UK (sans Taylor) as a result because you are biassing toward greatest hits and classic albums that have had full single rollouts. 
 

For example, despite debuting at #2, RAYE's album only had 6 weeks on the charts prior to winning at the BRITS because its main success (Escapism.) was effectively deleted. The British charts are a really poor reflection of what is popular in music. 

Are there no new smash albums because of the rules or because there are no smash albums? I just checked Raye's album on Spotify and the second most streamed song has less than 7% of Escapism's total streams. Is this the type of smash album you're referring to?
 

Were the rest of the album tracks deleted too? If enough people went to check out the album after the BRITS it would have re-entered, no? If they were just checking out Escapism, imo that should have been allowed to re-enter the singles chart.
 

It sounds like the rules are working exactly as intended, actually (measure which albums are being consumed as a, you know, album) 

[Both Sides Now]

21 minutes ago, family.guy123 said:

Are there no new smash albums because of the rules or because there are no smash albums? I just checked Raye's album on Spotify and the second most streamed song has less than 7% of Escapism's total streams. Is this the type of smash album you're referring to?
 

Were the rest of the album tracks deleted too? If enough people went to check out the album after the BRITS it would have re-entered, no? If they were just checking out Escapism, imo that should have been allowed to re-enter the singles chart.
 

It sounds like the rules are working exactly as intended, actually (measure which albums are being consumed as a, you know, album) 

Uhhh… Actually, it did re-enter after the BRITs at #5 

 

You didn't engage with my main point, which is that the OCC's heavily biasses towards Greatest Hits because their penalising rule doesn't affect them as heavily as new albums. Nobody is consuming "The Highlights" as an album. They're listening to The Hills, Starboy and Blinding Lights and it's getting piled into this non-album. This is clearly not what was intended. 

Edited June 10 by Both Sides Now

[makeawish]

28 minutes ago, family.guy123 said:

But we're in the streaming era now where we can more accurately determine what is being consumed. 
 

If somebody bought an album in 2000 and only listened to the lead single, obviously those plays should have counted towards the single chart and not the album chart, but there was no way to determine that like there is now. 
 

Streams aren't being docked from successful songs, their popularity is reflected in the singles chart (where there's a weird ACR rule thing that you don't have a problem with cause you like the results it gives, even though it docks streams of songs people are actually listening to) im against ACR, personally (if I understand it correctly) 

we have a hybrid chart now, so you have to make choices eg how to weight the number of vinyls sold that might well stay on a shelf in their shrink wrap. they aren't being played, yet the charts are heavily weighted twds them. one way or another, it isn't an "accurate" chart.

 

the choices made in the singles chart are made to do something: they tell us how new songs are doing and allow for some old things to hang around that are extremely popular. as such, they tell us more that we don't already know. if we didn't have ACR, they would simply tell us that mr brightside was still extremely popular. we already know that

 

i approve the choices that are made to tell us stuff about new records because it's new information. the changes made to the album chart give us less new information. they just tell us that 75% of the records that have been popular for years are still popular. we already know that

 

there isn't a "right" answer as such, as everything involves some interference at some level and nothing can be truly "accurate", whatever that means anymore. you support the way they interfere in the album chart, i support what they do in the singles. but i do think that if they're going to interfere in the albums chart, it would be better if it told us more about the music that's currently being released, which isn't what's happening now.

 

which is all i have to say

 

*taps out*

[family.guy123]

1 hour ago, Both Sides Now said:

Uhhh… Actually, it did re-enter after the BRITs at #5 

 

You didn't engage with my main point, which is that the OCC's heavily biasses towards Greatest Hits because their penalising rule doesn't affect them as heavily as new albums. Nobody is consuming "The Highlights" as an album. They're listening to The Hills, Starboy and Blinding Lights and it's getting piled into this non-album. This is clearly not what was intended. 

Ok so the rules didn't prevent an old smash album from charting high then?YOU'RE the one who brought up that raye's mega smash album was negatively impacted by the rules. Not me. So don't  me, little miss. 
 

I agree re: greatest hits. They probably shouldn't be eligible to chart on the main chart in this day and age. I feel like the UK used to have rules about compilations? Idk 

[family.guy123]

2 hours ago, makeawish said:

we have a hybrid chart now, so you have to make choices eg how to weight the number of vinyls sold that might well stay on a shelf in their shrink wrap. they aren't being played, yet the charts are heavily weighted twds them. one way or another, it isn't an "accurate" chart.

 

the choices made in the singles chart are made to do something: they tell us how new songs are doing and allow for some old things to hang around that are extremely popular. as such, they tell us more that we don't already know. if we didn't have ACR, they would simply tell us that mr brightside was still extremely popular. we already know that

 

i approve the choices that are made to tell us stuff about new records because it's new information. the changes made to the album chart give us less new information. they just tell us that 75% of the records that have been popular for years are still popular. we already know that

 

there isn't a "right" answer as such, as everything involves some interference at some level and nothing can be truly "accurate", whatever that means anymore. you support the way they interfere in the album chart, i support what they do in the singles. but i do think that if they're going to interfere in the albums chart, it would be better if it told us more about the music that's currently being released, which isn't what's happening now.

 

which is all i have to say

 

*taps out*

But you said you wanted the charts to reflect what people are listening to, without interference. So if Mr Brightside is being listened to a lot, who cares that Atrl user makeawish already knows that? The charts are supposed to reflect what's being consumed, despite how aware the public is already of these songs/albums being consumed. (What a bizarre take )

 

and btw: I don't think vinyl, nor any "pure" album sale should count for any consumption chart anywhere 

Edited June 11 by family.guy123

[Renan90]

Official Chart Update

Singles (Top 100)

1 Eminem - Houdini (31,462)
2 Sabrina Carpenter - Espresso (28,556)
3 Shaboozey - A Bar Song (Tipsy) (19,186)
4 Billie Eilish - BIRDS OF A FEATHER (18,110)
5 Sabrina Carpenter - Please Please Please (18,017) *

6-10
7 Myles Smith - Stargazing

11-20
13 Mark Ambor - Belong Together
18 RAYE - Genesis. *
19 Taylor Swift - I Can Do It with a Broken Heart

21-30
26 Charli XCX - 360 *
29 Taylor Swift - Down Bad

31-40
32 Dua Lipa - Illusion
33 Jung Kook - Never Let Go *
34 Gracie Abrams - Close to You *

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Albums (Top 100)

1 Bon Jovi - Forever (18,587) [16,854 physicals, 1,322 downloads, 411 streaming] *
2 Charli XCX - BRAT (16,219) *
3 Taylor Swift - THE TORTURED POETS DEPARTMENT (7,956)
4 Billie Eilish - HIT ME HARD AND SOFT (6,017)
5 AURORA - What Happened to the Heart? (4,045) *

6-10
6 Seasick Steve - A Trip a Stumble a Fall Down On Your Knees *
7 Meghan Trainor - Timeless *
10 Taylor Swift - Lover

11-20
11 Taylor Swift - 1989 (Taylor's Version)
12 Peggy Gou - I Hear You *
16 Taylor Swift - Midnights
18 Chappell Roan - The Rise and Fall of a Midwest Princess
19 Taylor Swift - reputation
20 Taylor Swift - folklore

21-30
24 Goat Girl - Below the Waste *
27 Teddy Swims - I've Tried Everything But Therapy (Part 1)
28 Tems - Born in the Wild *
29 Queen - Greatest Hits

31-40
32 Eels - EELS TIME! *
33 KAYTRANADA - TIMELESS *
35 Alfie Templeman - Radiosoul *

[Gossip_Boy]

Oh that's abysmal for Alfie  I was expecting him to be top 10 at least in the first update. 
 

Surprisingly not awful for Meghan Trainor. I heard she's doing signings which are helping. She should be safe for top 20 which is a big improvement compared to her last effort which missed the top 60.

Edited June 11 by Gossip_Boy

[family.guy123]

Hopefully Millie bobby browns father in law blocks that brat! 

[Jay L]

 

Praying Charli snatches that top spot. I hope 360 keeps rising too. A sleeper hit in the making

[UnusualBoy]

Taylor released a signed version there, not sure if that will give it the upper hand since the gap is like 6k...

[Matthew4815]

Go Charli! 

[Nefertiti0]

 

[ALA]

 ugh hope Charli gets it

[Jay L]

rooting for charli 

[Achilles.]

 

Something something but I can tell you how it ends.

Edited June 13 by Achilles.

[daniela monquelat]

taylor.... ugh i love her 

[Ger]

[CallumDavies]

What is wrong with Taylor? She's obsessed with success and she'll literally stop at nothing to try and take shine away from other female artists