news Joe Biden: "Contrary to allegations, what's happening is not a genocide"

[awesomepossum]

Bye, bye Michigan! Biden stays proving his haters right. He is demented and senile. Weekend at Biden's: The Presidency.

[Kassi]

27 minutes ago, awesomepossum said:

Why didn't you include the definition of genocide in your list?? Because then we could read it and see that what Israel is doing in Palestine is very much a genocide:

 

Genocide: any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:

• (a) Killing members of the group;
• (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
• (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
• (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
• (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Src: Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2

 

According to your backwards logic, we should wait until every Palestinian is killed. THEN we can call it what it was, past tense. Once every person is dead already. Like this is some f$*@)(% comment section flame war. Like anyone cares that you and your ilk will 'admit you were wrong' after Israel kills every person in Gaza. This is REAL LIFE you pos. Call it what it is NOW.

The disconnect is that you've convinced yourself it's a genocide (which is totally your right) with a level of certainty that is difficult to derive from the available facts. Otherwise, there's been no "official" determination that a genocide is occurring, and there's plenty of reason to think it is not. I think this comes from a strong anti-Israel bias, not the facts as we know them.

 

"Genocide" requires a specific intent to eliminate a group of people. Not just a lot of deaths. A lot of deaths happen in all wars, especially when one side purposely barricades itself in dense civilian populations. That specific intent has been proven nowhere.

[awesomepossum]

16 minutes ago, Kassi said:

The disconnect is that you've convinced yourself it's a genocide (which is totally your right) with a level of certainty that is difficult to derive from the available facts. Otherwise, there's been no "official" determination that a genocide is occurring, and there's plenty of reason to think it is not. I think this comes from a strong anti-Israel bias, not the facts as we know them.

 

"Genocide" requires a specific intent to eliminate a group of people. Not just a lot of deaths. A lot of deaths happen in all wars, especially when one side purposely barricades itself in dense civilian populations. That specific intent has been proven nowhere.

When you starve an entire population, that constitutes an intent to eliminate them. Don't play dumb.

 

As I said before, you want to 'wait and see,' then call it a genocide after every Palestinian has been killed. Your non-chalant attitude is just more evidence that you are being disingenuous. You know damn well it is a genocide and that's what you want.

Edited May 23 by awesomepossum

[Kassi]

1 hour ago, awesomepossum said:

When you starve an entire population, that constitutes an intent to eliminate them. Don't play dumb.

 

As I said before, you want to 'wait and see,' then call it a genocide after every Palestinian has been killed. Your non-chalant attitude is just more evidence that you are being disingenuous. You know damn well it is a genocide and that's what you want.

Sounds like a debate you need to take up with the ICJ. 

[Letemtalk]

4 hours ago, Kassi said:

The disconnect is that you've convinced yourself it's a genocide (which is totally your right) with a level of certainty that is difficult to derive from the available facts. Otherwise, there's been no "official" determination that a genocide is occurring, and there's plenty of reason to think it is not. I think this comes from a strong anti-Israel bias, not the facts as we know them.

 

"Genocide" requires a specific intent to eliminate a group of people. Not just a lot of deaths. A lot of deaths happen in all wars, especially when one side purposely barricades itself in dense civilian populations. That specific intent has been proven nowhere.

But Biden and Blinken have no problem calling out large death tolls and/or mass incarceration in other countries "genocide".

 

https://www.voanews.com/a/usa_us-calls-out-genocide-atrocities-committed-6-countries/6208177.html

 

Quote

The United States called out genocide and atrocities happening in six countries —Myanmar (also known as Burma,) China, Ethiopia, Iraq, Syria and South Sudan — as part of a report highlighting how the U.S. government is using financial, diplomatic and other measures to try to stop them.

Why does the Biden government rush to say genocide has been committed by some countries and not others?

 

The US government loves to talk about a "rules based order", but they are making the rules up as they go along and applying the rules differently depending on which country is perceived to be breaking the rules.

[Kassi]

51 minutes ago, Letemtalk said:

But Biden and Blinken have no problem calling out large death tolls and/or mass incarceration in other countries "genocide".

 

https://www.voanews.com/a/usa_us-calls-out-genocide-atrocities-committed-6-countries/6208177.html

 

Why does the Biden government rush to say genocide has been committed by some countries and not others?

 

The US government loves to talk about a "rules based order", but they are making the rules up as they go along and applying the rules differently depending on which country is perceived to be breaking the rules.

The key difference is that Hamas, a designated terrorist organization, is responsible for the immediate security concerns faced by Israel, including the recent escalation on October 7.
 

Israel's response is a culmination of years of missile attacks from Hamas, with over 4,000 rockets launched in recent years alone which have necessitated costly defensive measures like the Iron Dome. When these defensive systems are overwhelmed, as they were on October 7, offensive measures become necessary to address the root cause of the attacks and ensure the safety of civilians.

 

While there are valid concerns about the proportionality of Israel's response where civilians are involved, it's important to distinguish between defensive actions against terrorist threats and the criteria for labeling something as genocide. Genocide involves a specific intent to destroy a group, which is different from a nation's response to ongoing security threats. Not every ~bad~ thing is a genocide.  

[Letemtalk]

20 hours ago, Kassi said:

The key difference is that Hamas, a designated terrorist organization, is responsible for the immediate security concerns faced by Israel, including the recent escalation on October 7.
 

Israel's response is a culmination of years of missile attacks from Hamas, with over 4,000 rockets launched in recent years alone which have necessitated costly defensive measures like the Iron Dome. When these defensive systems are overwhelmed, as they were on October 7, offensive measures become necessary to address the root cause of the attacks and ensure the safety of civilians.

 

While there are valid concerns about the proportionality of Israel's response where civilians are involved, it's important to distinguish between defensive actions against terrorist threats and the criteria for labeling something as genocide. Genocide involves a specific intent to destroy a group, which is different from a nation's response to ongoing security threats. Not every ~bad~ thing is a genocide.  

I wish I had a dollar for each time someone tried to claim this all started on October 7.

 

You can go back to the election of the far right Israeli government in late 2022, or back to the first settlements after the 1967 invasion and occupation of the West Bank, or back to the Nakba in 1948. The trend has always been one of Zionists killing far more Palestinians, than Palestinians kill Jewish/Israeli people, and then the invaders and occupiers are pretending to be the real victims.

 

Every time in history, whenever there has been a genocide, the perpetrators have always blamed the victims. This happened in Bosnia, it happened in the 1930s and 1940s in Europe and it's happening now.

 

China will tell you that there was violence perpetrated by Uyghur militant groups and this seems to have been true. But does this warrant persecution against an entire ethnic group?

 

People like Biden and Blinken and yourself have no real principles.

When bombs are falling on children, they simply do not care. They are happy as long as their side is "winning".

[The7thStranger]

On 5/21/2024 at 3:51 AM, Kassi said:

War Crimes. 
 

There's a pretty well established convention for adjudicating a wide range of War Crimes. 

 

Here are some relevant ones:

• Deliberate Attacks on Civilians: Prohibited under Article 51 of the Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions.
• Indiscriminate Use of Weapons: Addressed by the Geneva Conventions and the Hague Conventions, as well as specific treaties like the Convention on Cluster Munitions.
• Murder and Torture of Prisoners of War: Prohibited under the Third Geneva Convention.
• Forced Deportation or Transfer of Populations: Covered under the Fourth Geneva Convention.
• Hostage-Taking: Prohibited by Article 34 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
• Use of Child Soldiers: Addressed by the Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict.
• Destruction of Cultural Property: Prohibited by the Hague Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict.
• Blockades Causing Starvation: Addressed under Article 54 of Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions.
• Rape and Sexual Violence: Prohibited under Article 27 of the Fourth Geneva Convention and the Rome Statute of the ICC.
• Unlawful Requisition or Looting: Addressed by Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Genocide is a very specific thing. And calling every war with civilians casualties one dilutes the meaning of the word. 

1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 and not 10.

 

Saying 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 equals 10 dilutes the meaning of the number 10.

[awesomepossum]

23 hours ago, Kassi said:

Sounds like a debate you need to take up with the ICJ. 

Apparently not: UN's top court orders Israel to immediately halt Rafah offensive

[Dera]

On 5/20/2024 at 9:03 PM, Summerboy95 said:

It's like your neurons are rejecting each other. Please embrace synapse, let it happen so you can avoid saying things like this!

this drag omg...