Thesedays Posted May 23 Posted May 23 4 hours ago, Pop Art said: The point where we differ in view is that you seem to think that Trump will be any better than Biden in his treatment of Palestine (I believe he'll be even worse) or that, as unfortunate as it is, there is any other person besides one of these two that will be president in 2025. That is all I'm saying. I don't love it either, but this is the reality we live in. I seem to think Trump will be "any better"? With all due respect, why are you making **** up? Where did I claim Trump would be better? Anyone who's actually educated on the issue (including Palestinians themselves) doesn't claim Trump will be "better," but we're all aware there isn't much space for him to be worse because... it's literally impossible, lol. A genocide is a genocide, there's no "worse" or "better" genocide. So no, Trump can't possibly be "even worse" in material terms. Quote there is any other person besides one of these two that will be president in 2025. That is all I'm saying. I don't love it either, but this is the reality we live in. Cool. If the only two options are genocide supporters, then it's understandable why millions won't support either, right? You're free to prioritize other things, but do you honestly think having GENOCIDE as a red line is wrong? Quote (although I'd argue Trump would be far worse but that's a different discussion). We're not on the same page because I am actually educated on the conflict. So no, Trump can't be "far worse." because there's literally no "far worse" when the current president is enabling genocide, sending 1 billion in weapons, supporting Israeli lies, and going against the International Crime Court. How "far worse" can Trump be? Would love to hear an educated take on that. Quote If that's the case, shouldn't the focus shift on what either candidate is gonna do to the people in their country? Maybe. But are you telling me that you can't really understand people having GENOCIDE as a line they won't cross? Really? We're not demanding you NOT to vote for Biden based on your own reasonings, and we're not saying Palestine should be YOUR priority, but at the same time, people pretending as if GENOCIDE isn't a good reason not to support either seem to be completely lacking in humanity. 1
Hephaestus Posted May 23 Posted May 23 7 hours ago, GraceRandolph said: The bigger question is WHY don't we have a choice that is better for Palestine, and should we accept that? Well, you have a choice to vote 3rd party but we all know that's basically throwing away your vote since they for sure won't win and will only help Trump get in the office. It sucks, but that's the way the system is. 5 hours ago, Thesedays said: We're not on the same page because I am actually educated on the conflict. So no, Trump can't be "far worse." because there's literally no "far worse" when the current president is enabling genocide, sending 1 billion in weapons, supporting Israeli lies, and going against the International Crime Court. How "far worse" can Trump be? Would love to hear an educated take on that. Maybe. But are you telling me that you can't really understand people having GENOCIDE as a line they won't cross? Really? We're not demanding you NOT to vote for Biden based on your own reasonings, and we're not saying Palestine should be YOUR priority, but at the same time, people pretending as if GENOCIDE isn't a good reason not to support either seem to be completely lacking in humanity. gtfoh with this attitude, what do you even know about my education on the conflict? I already explained why Trump would be worse on this matter, but let me reiterate: a little over a month ago he literally declared that Netanyahu should finish what he started and fast so people can move on with their lives. Between someone who'd rather press fast forward on the bombings so we can all get over with the war and someone who's still contributing to it but showing small signs of pushback (because he has more to lose, but it's still something), to me it's clear who's gonna treat this matter worse. It's still a genocide either way, but as I explained in my previous post buying Palestinian time could be what ends up saving their lives because other countries might start putting more pressure on Israel and/or intervene in some way (as they already did recently with the ICC ruling). And no, I do understand people not crossing that line. What I'm saying though is given that both candidates support genocide, wouldn't one at least be compelled to vote for the one who hasn't told how he would reshape the US into a christofascist hellhole? Who wouldn't appoint young MAGA Supreme Court Justices if he was elected? I mean everyone is entitled to their own opinion (and vote), but please don't complain when Trump gets elected and starts taking people's rights just to act on a personal vendetta because there's still a way to avoid that.
GraceRandolph Posted May 23 Posted May 23 6 minutes ago, Hephaestus said: Well, you have a choice to vote 3rd party but we all know that's basically throwing away your vote since they for sure won't win and will only help Trump get in the office. It sucks, but that's the way the system is.
Hephaestus Posted May 23 Posted May 23 8 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said: Ok girl, vote 3rd party then and wait until Trump gets in the office where he'll still support the genocide and will make your life a living hell. How people aren't scared of Trump and his supporters after Jan 6 truly baffles me.
GraceRandolph Posted May 23 Posted May 23 2 minutes ago, Hephaestus said: Ok girl, vote 3rd party then and wait until Trump gets in the office where he'll still support the genocide and will make your life a living hell. How people aren't scared of Trump and his supporters after Jan 6 truly baffles me. Of course we are afraid of Trump. Are you from the US? I live in a red state so my voting 3rd party has no bearing on who will win the White House, and the current Biden admin doesn't want to curb any policy in order to win over voters. Don't you think the Democratic Party has proven itself incapable of fighting the right by now?
Hephaestus Posted May 23 Posted May 23 Just now, GraceRandolph said: Of course we are afraid of Trump. Are you from the US? I live in a red state so my voting 3rd party has no bearing on who will win the White House, and the current Biden admin doesn't want to curb any policy in order to win over voters. Don't you think the Democratic Party has proven itself incapable of fighting the right by now? Yes they did, but is that enough of a reason to make the Republicans win to you? Would you rather see the country become an ever worse place to live for women, POC, immigrants and queer people?
GraceRandolph Posted May 23 Posted May 23 7 minutes ago, Hephaestus said: Yes they did, but is that enough of a reason to make the Republicans win to you? Would you rather see the country become an ever worse place to live for women, POC, immigrants and queer people? Even if Biden wins in 2024, he's just going to be a lame duck and pave the way for a worse, more competent right-winger in 2028. We might as well get the Trump **** over with and start building a viable left while we still can.
Hephaestus Posted May 23 Posted May 23 3 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said: Even if Biden wins in 2024, he's just going to be a lame duck and pave the way for a worse, more competent right-winger in 2028. We might as well get the Trump **** over with and start building a viable left while we still can. Ok then, you've made your position very clear and I don't agree with it. There's no point in continuing this discussion. Just take into consideration that no matter how absurd it might sound, with Project 2025 and what happened on Jan 6 there is a chance elections might become a thing of the past come 2028.
Ecstasy Posted May 23 Posted May 23 (edited) On 5/20/2024 at 3:54 AM, Communion said: WHAT'S THE PLAN? QUICKLY? May I ask. What even is the point of these polls if peoples votes can be circumvented via the electoral college? Genuinely curious cuz we all remember what happened in 2016 when the popular vote literally did nothing Edited May 23 by Ecstasy
Thesedays Posted May 23 Posted May 23 6 hours ago, Ecstasy said: May I ask. What even is the point of these polls if peoples votes can be circumvented via the electoral college? Genuinely curious cuz we all remember what happened in 2016 when the popular vote literally did nothing Because these are the states that actually matter for the electoral college. 13 hours ago, Hephaestus said: gtfoh with this attitude, what do you even know about my education on the conflict? You think Trump will be worse for the conflict which shows a lack of education. How can he be worse for the conflict when the Gaza conflict will be mostly over by January because it won't exist anymore? Seems what Biden is aiming for with his 1 billion sales in weapons for them, huh? Quote And no, I do understand people not crossing that line. Quote Ok girl, vote 3rd party then and wait until Trump gets in the office where he'll still support the genocide and will make your life a living hell. So you were lying and you don't really understand, huh? Not surprising.
Hephaestus Posted May 23 Posted May 23 6 minutes ago, Thesedays said: You think Trump will be worse for the conflict which shows a lack of education. How can he be worse for the conflict when the Gaza conflict will be mostly over by January because it won't exist anymore? Seems what Biden is aiming for with his 1 billion sales in weapons for them, huh? So you were lying and you don't really understand, huh? Not surprising. Not gonna bother answering you anymore since you seem to be more interested to get a gotcha moment instead of having an actual discussion. Have a nice day.
Thesedays Posted May 24 Posted May 24 4 hours ago, Hephaestus said: Not gonna bother answering you anymore since you seem to be more interested to get a gotcha moment instead of having an actual discussion. Have a nice day. You're right; I am not interested in having a discussion because, as I said, genocide is a red line for me, so no amount of reasoning would make me overlook that. Now, feel free to prioritize other things but baffling that you can't understand why others won't simply ignore it and vote for the "least worst" (sic).
Robert Posted May 24 Posted May 24 Someone explain to me if it's not possible but why don't the dinosaur Democrats supreme court justices step down while Biden is president and avoid even risking this?
Twixters Posted May 25 Posted May 25 If trump gets in there will be no election in 2028 lol I fear he will though. Every great nation falls eventually. But the worldwide ramifications will be outrageous.
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