celeb news MNEK drags Beyoncé haters over songwriting credits

[Puttanesca]

If Bey wasn't talented in other areas like singing and performing then yeah I'd have an issue, but she's one of the best performers we have rn so the songwriting thing has never really bothered me. All artists excel at different things. Very rarely can you find someone who can do it all. 

[alfonso12]

1 hour ago, Josh said:

Whats there not to get about her music? shes not Bjork or Kate Bush

She's not that alternative but it might still be too much to process for someone who's used to listen girls saying lyrics like "Hit you with that ddu-du, ddu-du, du. Ah-yeah, ah-yeah" over generic and dated beats. 

[feelslikeadream]

41 minutes ago, QueenB said:

And it's the same in my physical album booklet too

Is there another "Smash into you" I should know about or are you going to admit you were wrong?

 

 

I'm talking about ASCAP writing credits, which determines royalties. She is listed as a writer on the ASCAP database, and given that we have Jon's version to listen to, we can hear how the only lyrical change is the "smash" and the only change in arrangement is the addition of some ad libs.

 

 

I understand that Beyonce fans regularly argue that she deserves "arrangement" credits because she ad libs or changes one note in a melody, but this is NOT how most artists operate. Whitney Houston, Kelly Clarkson, and other vocalists do the same type of thing on top of a track they're handed, and they don't get writing credits on ASCAP.

 

This is a pretty straightforward case where you can hear the demo, hear Bey's version, and acknowledge it's sketchy and unusual that she be listed as a WRITER—in lyrics OR musical arrangement. And rather than acknowledge that, for some reason y'all are always scrambling to pretend it's the norm. Give it up

 

As MNEK said, using songwriter camps is perfectly fine and a lot of people use them. But a lot of people also use them and don't include themselves as a writer. We don't know how much Beyonce contributed to each and every song she's credited on, but it's perfectly fair to question if her contributions are substantive or if she's slapping her name on the song for money, awards, etc.

[toxicgenie]

1 hour ago, LOTF said:

And this is absolutely ridiculous. What type of mental illness do you need to have to actually give a f*ck whether a singer wrote the song or not?

As the saying goes, "different strokes for different folks".

 

1 hour ago, Chris said:

Beyonce contributed to the song writing.

Yes, but given previous allegations, her credibility is questioned and lots of people will remain suspicious. 

Edited April 4 by toxicgenie

[QueenB]

Just now, feelslikeadream said:

I'm talking about ASCAP writing credits, which determines royalties. She is listed as a writer on the ASCAP database, and given that we have Jon's version to listen to, we can hear how the only lyrical change is the "smash" and the only change in arrangement is the addition of some ad libs.

 

 

I understand that Beyonce fans regularly argue that she deserves "arrangement" credits because she ad libs or changes one note in a melody, but this is NOT how most artists operate. Whitney Houston, Kelly Clarkson, and other vocalists do the same type of thing on top of a track they're handed, and they don't get writing credits on ASCAP.

 

This is a pretty straightforward case where you can hear the demo, hear Bey's version, and acknowledge it's sketchy and unusual that she be listed as a WRITER—in lyrics OR musical arrangement. And rather than acknowledge that, for some reason y'all are always scrambling to pretend it's the norm. Give it up

 

As MNEK said, using songwriter camps is perfectly fine and a lot of people use them. But a lot of people also use them and don't include themselves as a writer. We don't know how much Beyonce contributed to each and every song she's credited on, but it's perfectly fair to question if her contributions are substantive or if she's slapping her name on the song for money, awards, etc.

 Now you are moving the goal post because you SAID she "stole credits from Jon McLaughlin", who had NOTHING to do with the writing of the song, ascap combines lyrics and music arranging under one, by the way

The album credits just Tricky and The Dream as the lyricists, and both have praised her for how involved she is in the creation process.

 

Hence why they continue to work with her, even on cowboy carter

[SweetenerNostalgia]

It's the second time a songwriter has clocked a swiftie this year. it's insane how much they try to discredit women's talents but most of the time they don't know what they're talking about.

 

 

[Tudors]

Who cares just write the damn song

Edited April 4 by Tudors

[Heirloom]

Songwriting isn't only limited on writing lyrics, but also writing the vocal harmonies which has been a signature trademark in Beyonce's catalogue.

[teresaguidice]

i think it's silly how all pop stars now regardless of ability must appear to write their own music, but its just a boilerplate part of the contract that everyone on both sides is aware of at this point. like, i'm to believe selena gomez is co-writing every song she releases..? that britney spears wrote perfume..?

 

i get that beyonce gets more acclaim as an "artist" than your run of the mill pop star and therefore her taking credit might be more disingenuous, but my question is what's the difference between max martin writing a song without any contribution from the pop star and 15 people writing a song without any contribution from the pop star? it's the same "stolen" credits and its the same lack of artistry or talent or whatever the accusation is. a lot of beyonce's albums cuts tend to be layered, a mix of samples, etc so it makes sense that they'd be the sum of multiple parts from multiple writers, no?

[Polgg48]

oh jolene MPG that you are

[Bey'Knight]

7 hours ago, feelslikeadream said:

It's kind of a strawman argument though; the issue with Beyonce and credits is not the number of writers, but the shady way she takes writing credits herself despite minimal/zero contributions.

 

THE having 6 writers is not a problem.

 

Bey taking royalties away from Jon McLaughlin for Crash Into You is a problem. And if she's doing the same for the other 5 writers on THE, that's also an issue.

 

So this tweet and reply are ultimately just misdirection away from the actual issue.

The actual issue? Who's issue? What issue? Cus everyone that Beyonce works sings her praises. The ppl with issues are not fans, not involved in her album creation process or writers of her songs so what exactly is your issue. If your threshold to enjoy music is X songwriters max. Gladly go do that. No one forces you to listen to Beyonce, chile. 

[Jay07]

This songwriter thing keeps being perpetuated because it's the only thing people have against Beyonce now that she has sales, acclaim and quality. Do people really care if a song has 1, 3 or 7 songwriters or do they pretend to care because Beyonce laps their fave in every other imaginable way?

[OrgVisual]

9 hours ago, QueenB said:

 Now you are moving the goal post because you SAID she "stole credits from Jon McLaughlin", who had NOTHING to do with the writing of the song, ascap combines lyrics and music arranging under one, by the way

The album credits just Tricky and The Dream as the lyricists, and both have praised her for how involved she is in the creation process.

 

Hence why they continue to work with her, even on cowboy carter

Wait so that Jon guy didn't write the song either? And all this time I hear people accuse Bey of stealing credits from him? 

[ScorpiosGroove]

these types of threads are always full of fans of girls who either can't sing their lyrics or fans whose faves do write their lyrics and STILL can't make an acclaimed album if their life depended on it… this whole convo is extremely tired and boring 

[Kimbra]

47 minutes ago, OrgVisual said:

Wait so that Jon guy didn't write the song either? And all this time I hear people accuse Bey of stealing credits from him? 

It's crazy they accuse Beyoncé of being illiterate when they can't read a simple, laid out Wikipedia graph. 

[JO1s]

A lot of the acclaimed song writers who make that their whole thing don't have 10% of the performance and vocal abilities she has so who cares.

[Lovett]

10 hours ago, hahayo said:

there's no point arguing with delusional stan's who refuse to see the truth. she steals songwriting and production credits, period. always has and always will. it's a business decision, maybe not even hers personally.

 

doesn't mean she doesn't contribute, i'm sure she does because she is extremely talented but we have no way of knowing how much because she's automatically lead songwriter and producer on every single song.

 

the issue is not about an artist writing their own music, that's irrelevant. it's about lying and essentially stealing potential revenue from the pockets of talented songwriters trying to make a decent living. welcome to the music business. 

But that's literally the point: you aren't the one stating the truth. This narrative that Beyoncé "steals credits" has no actual evidence to support it, in fact, it's routinely disputed by the writers and producers that actually work with her.

 

You just stated in your post that we have "no way of knowing how much" she contributes. So why exactly are you stating that it's the 'truth' that she steals credits?

 

It's absolutely wild that people like you will just outright ignore what people who work with her have to say, so you can continue to peddle a narrative with no evidence. Hell, I even fell for the "Smack Into You" story which we've now all just found out isn't true.  It's ridiculous.

[LOTF]

10 hours ago, SweetenerNostalgia said:

It's the second time a songwriter has clocked a swiftie this year. it's insane how much they try to discredit women's talents but most of the time they don't know what they're talking about.

 

 

Swifties acting like they are experts in songwriting just because being a SoNgwRiiteRr!!~ is Taylor's schtick will never not be annoying to me. Like just stfu lmao

[Ponzi]

6 minutes ago, LOTF said:

Swifties acting like they are experts in songwriting just because being a SoNgwRiiteRr!!~ is Taylor's schtick will never not be annoying to me. Like just stfu lmao

Right? Like what's the point in being a songwriter if the lyrics suck 

[Shelter]

11 hours ago, QueenB said:

 Now you are moving the goal post because you SAID she "stole credits from Jon McLaughlin", who had NOTHING to do with the writing of the song, ascap combines lyrics and music arranging under one, by the way

The album credits just Tricky and The Dream as the lyricists, and both have praised her for how involved she is in the creation process.

 

Hence why they continue to work with her, even on cowboy carter

Omg how embarrassing for @feelslikeadream crying about Jon's credits when he didn't write it. Maybe do your research.  I'd delete my account after that 

[Margaux]

well this just proves that she doesn't have the much artistry if she needed that 100 songwriters. 

[C-Amber]

Let's be real, she has no talent whatsoever in writing or producing music, that's why she needs +50 people to write every album of hers. She's a recording artist who enjoys adding her name first in songs credit when she does the minimum in writing them.

[AxelFox]

5 minutes ago, Margaux said:

well this just proves that she doesn't have the much artistry if she needed that 100 songwriters. 

 

2 minutes ago, C-Amber said:

Let's be real, she has no talent whatsoever in writing or producing music, that's why she needs +50 people to write every album of hers. She's a recording artist who enjoys adding her name first in songs credit when she does the minimum in writing them.

Would you mind elaborating on this because I fail to follow the logic behind it all.

 

Most of her songs fall in the 4-5 songwriters bracket if you exclude samples, which is pretty standard for all of the pop girls. The difference is is that Beyonce likes to work with a different array of people. So whereas someone would work with mostly the same 4-5 other people on multiple songs then pick what they like for an album at the end, beyonce works with different people for different songs then at the end she picks what she likes and makes the necessary changes to have them all work together. It's not like 50+ people worked on each and every song.

 

If anything, this moreso proves her artistry because she manages to curate these well crafter and cohesive bodies of work despite not having a select group of people working closely together making sure everything stays consistent. 

 

Or are you implying the artistry, vision and execution of Cowboy Carter is the merit of one of the 5 writers on Texas Hold Em? Or is it one of the 4 writers on Riverdance responsible for how amazing the album turned out? If that is the case where are these people's acclaimed bodies of work? It's very clear the element that ties everything in together is Beyonce and to deny the fact that she is the main driving factor behind how good her albums actually are is being extremely disingenuous.

 

If Beyonce does not have much artistry because she writes songs with other people that neither does any girl that has more then one other person credited on her tracks. 

[Lovett]

48 minutes ago, C-Amber said:

Let's be real, she has no talent whatsoever in writing or producing music, that's why she needs +50 people to write every album of hers. She's a recording artist who enjoys adding her name first in songs credit when she does the minimum in writing them.

Wild to preface a comment with "let's be real" and then state a categorical lie. The desperation to troll is real.

[ScorpiosGroove]

1 hour ago, JO1s said:

A lot of the acclaimed song writers who make that their whole thing don't have 10% of the performance and vocal abilities she has so who cares.

b-b-but walking around a stage is so relatable