Delirious Posted February 21 Posted February 21 And I don't know why y'all are even taking these communist, Hamas apologists and home wrecker supporter opinion seriously. Not to mention them and their friends wants to go to North Korea for a holiday one day. Good luck with that honey and I hope you plan a trip to go there ASAP 3 1 8 4
CottageHore Posted February 21 Posted February 21 He’s such a joke but his supporters are even bigger jokes. This man isn’t a Christian. He’s not religious. He has no reason to push for such ridiculous indoctrination other than an attempt to appeal to the only people still in his corner- the brainwashed, delusional, disgustingly hateful, and gravely unintelligent evangelicals who commit the deadly sin of worshipping and idolizing this orange stained Tupperware head ass. 1 1
Communion Posted February 21 Posted February 21 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Sannie said: are part of a privileged class Yes, people who vote are usually more privileged than the average non-voter. Odd how the affluent and highly educated VBNMW crowd villainize largely poor POC. Though it reminds us of the scene of Nancy Pelosi shouting down Dreamers about Democrats' inaction on immigration. Edited February 21 by Communion
wastedpotential Posted February 21 Posted February 21 28 minutes ago, Sannie said: Why do so many of you think codification = set in stone? The Voting Rights Act was codified and the SCOTUS demolished it recently. Codification means NOTHING. The only way to fully protect our rights is by making sure the people trying to take them away do not have the power to do so. It is a **** situation to be in, but it is how it is going to be until young people wake up and start voting. This post overall is a goddamn mess of trying to downplay the immense danger Trump will put the US plus the world in. The entire reason we are in the situation we are in right now is because Trump opened the floodgates for the Republicans to become so ******* unhinged. Trump will ensure every single person in a position of power within our government is a loyalist to him and not the Constitution. The FBI, the CIA, the military, the FDA, the EPA, border control... every facet will be headed up by a Trump loyalist. That is how our country falls. Our institutions are not set in stone, they are only as strong as the people in power want them to be, and Trump and his loyalists do not want them to be strong. Believe the Republicans when they say what they are saying. Women will have zero autonomy. Millions of document and undocumented immigrants (not the white ones) will be deported back to countries they have not lived in, in years, queer people will have their lives criminalized, trans people will be forced to detransition, black people will have their history criminalized and pulled from our schools... They want to do all of this. They will do it. For **** sakes, you even have Trump's lawyers in court arguing that he can not be held accountable for anything, that he is allowed to be a dictator and even kill his political dissidents. Get it through your heads. ----- This is how it is for most leftists. They either live in a blue state or are part of a privileged class that will not be affected by a second Trump admin. These leftists do not care about people of color, queer people, women, or immigrants in the US, but they want us to believe they actually care about people halfway across the planet? Not to mention that Trump and his people have stated over and over that one of their primary targets is birthright citizenship, a concept enshrined in the 14th amendment. I have a feeling that they won't be able to convince 38 state legislatures to side with them on the issue in a timely manner. Given how Trump has stood on other constitutional precedents, it's pretty plausible that he'd try to force his desired changes through regardless, and once the sacrosanctity of the constitution is gone, it's gone. If Project 2025 is brought to fruition, and if the Supreme Court is packed or if dissenting members are impeached (or worse), then everything goes out the window. If such a change were to occur (and it's far more likely than any of us would like to admit), then what mechanism remains to stop Trump (and Stephen Miller and co.) from say, stripping citizenship from immigrants of a non-White, non-Christian background? What's to say they won't go after the 15th or 19th amendments after gutting the 14th? What about the piles and piles of legal precedent built upon the due process or equal protection clauses? It's foolish to feel secure that the guardrails are going to stop Trump, when he destroyed a significant amount last time and has made it his singular mission to destroy whatever remains during this go-around in his blazing path of vengeance. 3
Communion Posted February 21 Posted February 21 (edited) 17 minutes ago, wastedpotential said: IF such a change were to occur (and it's far more likely than any of us would like to admit), then what mechanism remains to stop Trump (and Stephen Miller and co.) from say, stripping citizenship from immigrants of a non-White, non-Christian background? What's to say they won't go after the 15th or 19th amendments after gutting the 14th? Liberal rhetoric like this is only annoying in that it - for some reason - seems to purposefully ignore the reality that Trump did not get his way explicitly when it came to immigration law and the Supreme Court, and repeatedly failed throughout his term to make changes via the executive to things like asylum law or immigration policies. And this being annoying because immigration law should be readily in liberals' mind given that Biden himself is making a harsh pivot to the right and adopting some of Trump's policies in terms of immigration law and asylum to try and win over right-wing media, yet struggling because his admin knows he will face the same blocks Trump did. In a hypothetical to try and create space between Trump and Biden, you inadvertently remind everyone of Biden needlessly trying to erase any differences between himself and Trump. Edited February 21 by Communion 1 3
Rep2000 Posted February 21 Posted February 21 But- but- but- Biden is sooooo oooooold! Please don't vote! Please!!! /s 4
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted February 21 ATRL Moderator Posted February 21 1 hour ago, Sannie said: Why do so many of you think codification = set in stone? The Voting Rights Act was codified and the SCOTUS demolished it recently. Codification means NOTHING. The only way to fully protect our rights is by making sure the people trying to take them away do not have the power to do so. It’s such a shame we weren’t able to elect Joe Biden to prevent Roe v. Wade from being overturned… oh wait? Until Biden makes cogent arguments for what he’s going to do to protect and reinforce people’s civil rights, then this argument means nothing. Abortion rights were taken away with Biden in office and after we gave Dems a majority in the house and senate. Did they try to do anything to combat it? Did they entertain conversations of expanding the courts? Nope. So, how is electing Biden going to protect our rights from being undone by the current Supreme Court? I’m only raising this point because the argument that our rights can be protected by Biden should be made by Biden and he should lay out measurable actions to see that through. He’s not doing that because he’s not fit for the job and he’s a lackluster president. 6 2 1
GhostBox Posted February 21 Posted February 21 (edited) this man is delusional and anyone here who’s wants this back in Office can’t be taken serious on anything. Edited February 21 by GhostBox 1
wastedpotential Posted February 21 Posted February 21 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Communion said: Liberal rhetoric like this is only annoying in that it - for some reason - seems to purposefully ignore the reality that Trump did not get his way explicitly when it came to immigration law and the Supreme Court, and repeatedly failed throughout his term to make changes via the executive to things like asylum law or immigration policies. And this being annoying because immigration law should be readily in liberals' mind given that Biden himself is making a harsh pivot to the right and adopting some of Trump's policies in terms of immigration law and asylum to try and win over right-wing media, yet struggling because his admin knows he will face the same blocks Trump did. In a hypothetical to try and create space between Trump and Biden, you inadvertently remind everyone of Biden needlessly trying to erase any differences between himself and Trump. Hm, I wonder what's happened to the Supreme Court since 2018 that may reflect a potential change in decision from them (lets consider that ACB probably won't vote like Ginsberg did). I wonder what's changed since 2018 regarding Trump's legal status that may cause him to attempt to strong-arm the courts for personal reasons, and I wonder what sort of impacts that may have on any rulings regarding some of his most favorite policy proposals. I wonder what's changed since 2018 regarding national opinion and political messaging regarding immigration. You continue to put words in my mouth and make assumptions about my policy views, but I guess that's what you're known for. I'm no fan of Biden's immigration policies, I think they're incredibly inhumane and aren't even close to wise political strategy. He's running to the right and chasing a voting-bloc that is already spoken for, and who want to see how Trump will one-up Biden's inhumane policies (maybe an implementation of the Israeli automated assault rifle towers? Perhaps a ground invasion of Northern Mexico, a la Afghanistan?). I'm not trying to make any maneuvers on behalf of Biden's immigration policy (and I'm not sure what gave you that idea), rather, I'm trying to argue that Trump seemingly wants to crack the legal code and constitution in half to scrap the parts he doesn't like, especially the immigration and citizenship protections. Edited February 21 by wastedpotential 4 1
bad guy Posted February 21 Posted February 21 1 hour ago, Sannie said: Why do so many of you think codification = set in stone? The Voting Rights Act was codified and the SCOTUS demolished it recently. Codification means NOTHING. The only way to fully protect our rights is by making sure the people trying to take them away do not have the power to do so. It is a **** situation to be in, but it is how it is going to be until young people wake up and start voting. This post overall is a goddamn mess of trying to downplay the immense danger Trump will put the US plus the world in. The entire reason we are in the situation we are in right now is because Trump opened the floodgates for the Republicans to become so ******* unhinged. Trump will ensure every single person in a position of power within our government is a loyalist to him and not the Constitution. The FBI, the CIA, the military, the FDA, the EPA, border control... every facet will be headed up by a Trump loyalist. That is how our country falls. Our institutions are not set in stone, they are only as strong as the people in power want them to be, and Trump and his loyalists do not want them to be strong. Believe the Republicans when they say what they are saying. Women will have zero autonomy. Millions of document and undocumented immigrants (not the white ones) will be deported back to countries they have not lived in, in years, queer people will have their lives criminalized, trans people will be forced to detransition, black people will have their history criminalized and pulled from our schools... They want to do all of this. They will do it. For **** sakes, you even have Trump's lawyers in court arguing that he can not be held accountable for anything, that he is allowed to be a dictator and even kill his political dissidents. Get it through your heads. I literally said in my post that codification doesn’t mean a permanent solution and that our institutions are not to be trusted. My point is that repealing the codification of gay marriage is just not realistic given who is in Congress. If Trump were to win, it would solely be due to the Electoral College. He has proven to be an ineffective politician when it comes to stacking Congress with his lapdogs. Nearly every person he has backed for Congress loses. Let’s say he does win and Republicans do decide to bend the knee to policy he wants passed. Where will Republicans get their majority? There’s not going to be this massive red wave that’s gonna change the landscape of Congress. It will be an evenly divided Congress at the very least. I suppose there is a threat that if Congress is too tight and it leans on the VP being the tie-breaker that can pose a threat. But just looking at political trends for the last presidential elections, and especially with how the midterms went, the chances of Republicans having any majority in Congress with the way they’ve been losing is not very high. So that alone puts a wrench in whatever plans he wants to pass and offers no path of repealing marriage codification. We are approaching 4 years under Biden and are our institutions any more trustworthy? Is our world any safer? Is border control even a thing? Trump not being good for this country is a given, but it’s not like we’re in a great situation currently either. Controversial take maybe but I really don’t feel a single difference with Biden as president vs. Trump. The social issues during Trump have persisted under Biden and with Democratic control after his election he could have done a lot to help marginalized communities but chose not to. The political polarization is even worse (though Republicans have their hands in that as well obviously). And the world is on fire. If we can’t even admit there is a problem here, then yes we’re more screwed than we think. Democrats/liberals need to wake up and start holding their party accountable for putting us in a position where Trump being re-elected is even a possibility. The one thing Republican voters have been able to do, for better or worse, is make their voices known loud and clear on elected officials that don’t align with their beliefs. Trust me you will see Republicans losing their seats over this Israel/Ukraine funding bill unlike Democrats. But for some reason Democrats are still stuck in this never-ending cycle of holding nobody accountable and repeatedly voting blue-no-matter-who (with no results to show for it) and then freaking out right before an election about how the US is in danger if we don’t vote for empty platitudes again. Biden was elected off of this strategy and again…what is there to show for it? We’re still in danger. I’m not arguing that Republicans aren’t dangerous or that Trump isn’t bad for the country. But when the average American looks at the state of the country right now, sees prices for everything increase while wages stagnate, feels more in danger of WW3 than four years prior, sees our institutions pick and choose who to hold accountable, feel the economy working against them, notice green efforts being abandoned, student loan forgiveness being forgotten, etc., how do you look at our President who can’t even construct a sentence anymore as an optimal choice to ensure things will get better? Serious question. How do you convince someone to vote for you when they have not delivered for you? Where is Biden campaigning? Pumping hundreds of millions in TV ads is not enough. If he doesn’t have the vigor to campaign like his life depends on it (since democracy is supposedly on the line) then get the **** out of race and make room for a Democrat that can. Simple as that. Running off hyperbolic what-ifs with Trump isn’t going to get Biden re-elected. Delivering promises to the voters that elected you in the first place will though. Too bad Biden and the DNC’s ego is preventing them from facing their voters and ultimately putting the entire country at risk. 2 2 2
monologueNacafe Posted February 21 Posted February 21 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bloo said: The wild part is that somehow that’s supposed to be more practical than pressuring the Democratic Party, whose responsibility is to make political strategies to win elections, to make obvious course corrections to prevent Trump winning. Biden is such a pitiful candidate that he’s barely even able to campaign, let alone lead an inspiring movement to get people to the polls in spite of his support of a genocide. If these people in here (who actually live in the US) did more than just blindly vote Democrat (like some actual activism) I would take these calls for a pragmatic approach more seriously. But most people see a push for any real change as a hopeless endeavor and all we can ever do is keep voting in the same corporate Dems who keep applying the super glue to to barely keep this crumbling democracy together Edited February 21 by monologueNacafe 1
Bosque Posted February 21 Posted February 21 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bloo said: It’s such a shame we weren’t able to elect Joe Biden to prevent Roe v. Wade from being overturned… oh wait? Until Biden makes cogent arguments for what he’s going to do to protect and reinforce people’s civil rights, then this argument means nothing. Abortion rights were taken away with Biden in office and after we gave Dems a majority in the house and senate. Did they try to do anything to combat it? Did they entertain conversations of expanding the courts? Nope. So, how is electing Biden going to protect our rights from being undone by the current Supreme Court? I’m only raising this point because the argument that our rights can be protected by Biden should be made by Biden and he should lay out measurable actions to see that through. He’s not doing that because he’s not fit for the job and he’s a lackluster president. Why are we still being gaslit into thinking that Roe v Wade being abolished had anything to do with Biden, just because it happened during this tenure? it was a Supreme Court decision taken by the judges appointed by Trump, I know you realize this. There are 3 branches of government for a reason and if you hand full control of one of them to Republicans, you can’t be mad at Democrats about it. If Trump hadn’t been elected in 2016 it never would have happened in the first place, yet ATRL leftists are fully willing to go for Trump: Round 2 because Biden said that Hamas is bad and maybe babies shouldn’t be taken hostage for months Edited February 21 by Dephira 10 2 4
spree Posted February 21 Posted February 21 2 hours ago, bad guy said: Controversial take maybe but I really don’t feel a single difference with Biden as president vs. Trump yea not much, besides inflation. (which isn't Biden's fault, it's greedy corporations).
GraceRandolph Posted February 21 Posted February 21 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dephira said: because Biden said that Hamas is bad and maybe babies shouldn’t be taken hostage for months Is this the reason leftists don't like him? How do you explain his lack of popularity with Hispanic voters, Black voters, young voters, Republican voters and Independent voters? Edited February 21 by GraceRandolph
GraceRandolph Posted February 21 Posted February 21 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dephira said: Why are we still being gaslit into thinking that Roe v Wade being abolished had anything to do with Biden, just because it happened during this tenure? it was a Supreme Court decision taken by the judges appointed by Trump, I know you realize this. There are 3 branches of government for a reason and if you hand full control of one of them to Republicans, you can’t be mad at Democrats about it. Yes we can. Democrats dropped the ball for 50 years on Roe v. Wade. RBG didn't bow out when she should've. Dems had a majority during the Carter admin, Clinton admin, Obama admin, and Biden admin but never codified Roe into law. Dems just use abortion as a means to an end with fundraising. Biden chose not to declare a national public health emergency, chose not to use federal lands and military hospitals to set up clinics, and chose not to strike down the filibuster and pass the Women Health Protection Act to guarantee the right to an abortion nationwide. Dems just wanted to use abortion to benefit them in the midterms. Edited February 21 by GraceRandolph 3
State of Grace. Posted February 21 Posted February 21 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dephira said: because Biden said that Hamas is bad and maybe babies shouldn’t be taken hostage for months Downplaying him funding a literal genocide and his blind support for Israel to "he just said babies shouldn't be taken hostage!!!" You just keep going lower and lower. Edited February 21 by State of Grace. 1 3
Communion Posted February 21 Posted February 21 4 hours ago, Dephira said: because Biden said that Hamas is bad and maybe babies shouldn’t be taken hostage for months Not sure ATRL's resident German Zionist who has called Palestinians animals has his finger on the pulse of what will keep Arab Americans in Michigan home in November based on this post, tbh! 1 2
Communion Posted February 21 Posted February 21 7 minutes ago, wastedpotential said: Hm, I wonder what's happened to the Supreme Court since 2018 that may reflect a potential change in decision from them The SCOTUS has repeatedly sided with the Biden administration on immigration law, including on ending Remain in Mexico. I don't say this to downplay the harm of such a far-right court but to point out the reality that Biden's admin understands the full scope of the judicial branch of the government and how it operates yet continually refuse to take any actually meaningful and material actions against it in order to promote and progress his alleged agenda. The spectre of a far-right court becomes an empty motivator for collective action when Biden's admin (and thus most Congressional Dems blindly following his lead as the head of their party) don't support doing any action through the executive or Congress to disempower the court from further rolling back or blocking progress, and instead are even actively focusing their efforts against the court on how to pass far-right immigration policies to try and win over right-wing media! 1
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted February 21 ATRL Moderator Posted February 21 8 hours ago, Dephira said: Why are we still being gaslit into thinking that Roe v Wade being abolished had anything to do with Biden, just because it happened during this tenure? I swear my point is very simple. Please try not to miss it this time. How can you convincingly tell voters that the only way to protect civil rights is by voting for Joe Biden and the Democrats when abortion rights were overturned with Biden in the White House and Democrats in charge of the House and Senate? Biden and Democrats barely did anything but use the moment to stress the importance of voting and that’s it. So, again, how do you expect to convince people that voting for Biden is a surefire way to protect their civil rights? 4 1
GhostBox Posted February 21 Posted February 21 Ones planning all that and the other is still canceling student debt. But both are the same. over 4 million people have had their student debt canceled so far.
Into The Void Posted February 21 Posted February 21 22 hours ago, TeemoR said: Disgusting, he's a monster. But none of these things will happen. He always barks and then does nothing. This none of it will pass theres no need to worry 2
AMIT Posted February 21 Posted February 21 8 hours ago, spree said: yea not much, besides inflation. (which isn't Biden's fault, it's greedy corporations). The government and the corporations work in tandem (to everyone else's detriment), sis. It's wild that this isn't still common sense and there still is a widespread belief of the false dichotomy of state vs private entities, but I guess this shows just how effective the US strategy for its propaganda is.
GhostBox Posted February 21 Posted February 21 28 minutes ago, Insanity said: This none of it will pass theres no need to worry People who think this will be the ones who sit by and let the country be taken over by the likes of Trump and they will start implementing some of these proposals. Even then they will be like “its ok he can’t do that” while he stacks the courts and congress with people who will let him do just that. 💀 1
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