State of Grace. Posted February 21 Posted February 21 3 minutes ago, wastedpotential said: Regardless, as I said earlier, I think Trump has incredibly strong odds right now, and I believe that the pathway to weakening those odds is to convince those voters in Michigan that maybe it is in their best interests to vote for Biden in spite of the cruelty they have suffered at his hand How are you gonna convince someone whose family/relatives have been displaced or killed because Biden himself allowed that and continues to be against a ceasefire in Gaza to....still vote for him? in their best interests too? 1 1
Breathe On Moi Posted February 21 Posted February 21 2 hours ago, Raptus said: Communion week after voting for Trump in next elections: stop! 4
bad guy Posted February 21 Posted February 21 Gay marriage was codified so that won't be going away regardless of a SC decision (which they won't go after seeing how overturning Roe completely backfired). Congress would have to repeal what they just codified into law which they're not gonna do. I don't doubt that Trump's second term will be more chaotic than his first but he has even less support among Republicans in Congress than he did his first term. And I highly doubt Republicans are going to take over the House or Senate in numbers high enough to give Trump any type of majority. So with Congress being just as divided as it is now, the chances of him getting any of that passed legislatively is slim to none. So that leaves the remaining option to pass executive orders. Executive orders are not permanent and given how much of DC hates him, Congress can overturn them. Even if he vetoes this overturning, Congress can still override it with a 2/3 vote. If a court finds his orders unconstitutional they will be fought against judicially. While I don't really have faith in our institutions I also don't see any benefits, politically or otherwise, for anyone a part of said institutions to go along with this "plan" of his. I think a more realistic outcome of second-term of Trump would be: total legislative gridlock, a few executive orders that will be challenged and therefore ineffective, more political polarization, nauseating media coverage of every breath he takes, unhinged rants/speeches/tweets, and at worst a total decay of trust within our government that will then lead to even more voter apathy as the next election rolls around. The onus falls on Democratic leaders who have failed miserably in getting their message across and delivering real solutions to the problems Americans are facing. Biden is a PR nightmare. If the DNC any care for this country they would have embraced a stronger candidate to go up against Trump and have Biden bow out like LBJ did in 1968. But this won't happen so the only option is to pump Biden with as much steroids as they can and get him out campaigning at these swing states otherwise it's gonna be 2016 Hillary 2.0 and no, it's not the voters fault for feeling too abandoned to show up and vote. 7 1 1
wastedpotential Posted February 21 Posted February 21 (edited) 11 minutes ago, State of Grace. said: How are you gonna convince someone whose family/relatives have been displaced or killed because Biden himself allowed that and continues to be against a ceasefire in Gaza to....still vote for him? in their best interests too? Hence why Biden has about a zero percent chance of winning again and we're all condemned to whatever Trump can manage in 2024. It's more likely than getting the DNC to pick a different candidate, but that's not saying much. Edited February 21 by wastedpotential
ZeroSuitBritney Posted February 21 Posted February 21 He won't do more than half this trash. He promised many things for his previous presidency and delivered on almost none of it. My Palestinian ass will happily be voting 3rd party 2 1 7
GraceRandolph Posted February 21 Posted February 21 22 minutes ago, wastedpotential said: Hence why Biden has about a zero percent chance of winning again and we're all condemned to whatever Trump can manage in 2024. It's more likely than getting the DNC to pick a different candidate, but that's not saying much. Even Biden 2020 voters want a different candidate. Don’t blame Bernie Bros, don’t blame progressives, don’t blame Independents, blame Biden’s ego: 1
wastedpotential Posted February 21 Posted February 21 16 minutes ago, Communion said: Again, not sure this is even meaningful of an occurrence outside of Michigan for anyone to fearmonger over. And not sure hand-wringing is how you convince Arab Americans that it was okay for Biden to support their grandmother, cousin, aunt, uncle, brother, or friend being massacred by Israeli artillery. I'll reiterate the below. Y'all need Trump to lose to ensure ~Western democracy is protected and to protect Europe from Russia~? Okay then, we'll do a trade. Get Joe to support Medicare For All to earn my and others' vote and we'll protect Europe's future. No Medicare For All? No US military budget for the West to have. Not sure why you're recycling arguments against the European ATRLers when I'd be more than happy to trade some of the hundreds of billions of dollars we spend on their defense on Medicare for All, let alone the money spent on military aid for Israel. If I could take that back and put it somewhere more productive and less destructive, I would in a heartbeat. Regardless, Russia doesn't have the fiscal or human capital to take their war to Warsaw or Berlin, and they've already done about as much damage to the EU as they can manage. The EU has found replacement for much of its hydrocarbons elsewhere (and can replace much of the rest from renewable sources), and seems to be finally increasing their own security budgets. As for your first point, I'm not arguing my points with progressive students in Madison or suburbanites around Philadelphia or laid-off factory workers in Youngstown, I'm arguing with a about dozen users on ATRL, some of whom have explicitly said "I'd probably bite the bullet and vote for Biden if he cut his aid for Israel". Some of you don't live in swing states, but some of you do, and doing your part in handing a swing state to Trump on a principled stand against a catastrophe that was going to happen after 10/7 regardless of Biden's actions is what bothers me. However, if the EC comes down to Michigan and Trump takes it on a slim margin (not especially likely, but not exactly impossible), then we'll all be suffering the consequences because no one bothered to point out to the Arab Americans in question that their protest vote maybe wasn't the best course of action. I'm not sure I have the stomach for the "sorry your relatives died in Gaza, now Trump is going to try to strip you of your citizenship and deport you there, so you can die too" conversation. Hell, I'm not even sure if I have the stomach for the "sorry your relatives died in Gaza but now Trump is giving the Israeli's chemical weapons to finish off their genocide more efficiently" conversation, but that's not exactly an unlikely outcome. 1 1
GhostBox Posted February 21 Posted February 21 39 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said: Biden should’ve stepped aside ages ago. Even Nate Silver are calling for him to be replaced. The jig is up. Oh no not Nate silver 💀😂 1
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted February 21 ATRL Moderator Posted February 21 35 minutes ago, State of Grace. said: How are you gonna convince someone whose family/relatives have been displaced or killed because Biden himself allowed that and continues to be against a ceasefire in Gaza to....still vote for him? in their best interests too? The wild part is that somehow that’s supposed to be more practical than pressuring the Democratic Party, whose responsibility is to make political strategies to win elections, to make obvious course corrections to prevent Trump winning. Biden is such a pitiful candidate that he’s barely even able to campaign, let alone lead an inspiring movement to get people to the polls in spite of his support of a genocide. 1
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted February 21 ATRL Moderator Posted February 21 2 minutes ago, GhostBox said: Oh no not Nate silver 💀😂 Yes, the same person who was made fun of by mainstream media in 2016 for saying Trump had a considerable shot at winning. Nate Silver is an awful pundit in terms of political ideology. But he’s a great statistician. But, I’m sure y’all refusing to acknowledge polls will win Biden the election.
Machete Posted February 21 Posted February 21 But but Biden isn't doing what I like in a foreign conflict so I can't vote for him 1
GhostBox Posted February 21 Posted February 21 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Bloo said: Yes, the same person who was made fun of by mainstream media in 2016 for saying Trump had a considerable shot at winning. Nate Silver is an awful pundit in terms of political ideology. But he’s a great statistician. But, I’m sure y’all refusing to acknowledge polls will win Biden the election. Nate has been more wrong than right since 2016. 💀 among other things, If Nate was so right all the time we wouldn’t have Governor Newsom right now in CA. also no one’s ignoring the polls. This will be a tight race no Matter who wins. Edited February 21 by GhostBox 1
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted February 21 ATRL Moderator Posted February 21 4 minutes ago, GhostBox said: Nate has been more wrong than right since 2016. 💀 among other things, If Nate was so right all the time we wouldn’t have Governor Newsom right now in CA. also no one’s ignoring the polls. This will be a tight race no Matter who wins. What are you talking about? FiveThirtyEight’s models gave higher odds to Gavin Newsom winning. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/governor/2022/california/ Plenty of people are actively ignoring polls by simply saying something akin to “they’re never right.”
GhostBox Posted February 21 Posted February 21 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Bloo said: What are you talking about? FiveThirtyEight’s models gave higher odds to Gavin Newsom winning. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/governor/2022/california/ Plenty of people are actively ignoring polls by simply saying something akin to “they’re never right.” On his Twitter Nate predicted he would be recalled a few times. Even suggesting he should step down and let another candidate take his place to have better odds. 💀 sounds familiar Edited February 21 by GhostBox
ohwow Posted February 21 Posted February 21 i mean... murica is obviously headed in the direction of becoming more and more polarized the convervatives are going to carve out their areas and the "liberals" will carve out their areas and the country will keep becoming more and more split which... is what is precipitating its decline as a global power... china clearly dethroned ha as muricans are wasting time fighting amongst each other while it is investing billions in renewable energy, mass transit, etc.
Sergi91 Posted February 21 Posted February 21 3 hours ago, Raptus said: Communion week after voting for Trump in next elections: But isn’t he white? He’ll be fine with a second Trump term.
rp662 Posted February 21 Posted February 21 2 minutes ago, Bloo said: What are you talking about? FiveThirtyEight’s models gave higher odds to Gavin Newsom winning. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/governor/2022/california/ Plenty of people are actively ignoring polls by simply saying something akin to “they’re never right.” You know very well that the girls in here would not support a Newsom ticket either.
Gov Hooka Posted February 21 Posted February 21 16 minutes ago, wastedpotential said: Not sure why you're recycling arguments against the European ATRLers when I'd be more than happy to trade some of the hundreds of billions of dollars we spend on their defense on Medicare for All, let alone the money spent on military aid for Israel. If I could take that back and put it somewhere more productive and less destructive, I would in a heartbeat. Regardless, Russia doesn't have the fiscal or human capital to take their war to Warsaw or Berlin, and they've already done about as much damage to the EU as they can manage. The EU has found replacement for much of its hydrocarbons elsewhere (and can replace much of the rest from renewable sources), and seems to be finally increasing their own security budgets. As for your first point, I'm not arguing my points with progressive students in Madison or suburbanites around Philadelphia or laid-off factory workers in Youngstown, I'm arguing with a about dozen users on ATRL, some of whom have explicitly said "I'd probably bite the bullet and vote for Biden if he cut his aid for Israel". Some of you don't live in swing states, but some of you do, and doing your part in handing a swing state to Trump on a principled stand against a catastrophe that was going to happen after 10/7 regardless of Biden's actions is what bothers me. However, if the EC comes down to Michigan and Trump takes it on a slim margin (not especially likely, but not exactly impossible), then we'll all be suffering the consequences because no one bothered to point out to the Arab Americans in question that their protest vote maybe wasn't the best course of action. I'm not sure I have the stomach for the "sorry your relatives died in Gaza, now Trump is going to try to strip you of your citizenship and deport you there, so you can die too" conversation. Hell, I'm not even sure if I have the stomach for the "sorry your relatives died in Gaza but now Trump is giving the Israeli's chemical weapons to finish off their genocide more efficiently" conversation, but that's not exactly an unlikely outcome. Resident of swing state here. My friends’ family members and their friends were killed in the last five months while this POS excuse of a human being president said that he doubted their deaths/the death toll on national television and then proceeded to fast track billions of dollars in weapons to their murderers… it doesn’t take much to be the BARE MINIMUM of a decent human being to empathize with people who are facing genocide and at the very least refuse to back the person doing it. Good luck convincing the millions of us around the country that we shouldn’t give a **** just because you think you know what’s better for Palestinians who are actively being eliminated (and you obviously don’t have the stomach to disgustingly preach your “suck it up, it could be worse” narrative to them). Cut the patronizing bullshit out and stop demeaning the fact that people have a bare minimum principled stance that enabling genocide and total slaughter of thousands of kids is in fact a redline for many people with a shred of morality… 2
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted February 21 ATRL Moderator Posted February 21 Just now, rp662 said: You know very well that the girls in here would not support a Newsom ticket either. This has nothing to do with my point.
TiaTamera Posted February 21 Posted February 21 7 hours ago, GhostBox said: And having this news again today should make your point even more.. gay people are their next target And after the gays it will interracial marriage. And it will start off with something “small” like bakeries being able to deny making wedding cakes for certain couples because of their “faith” and it will snowball from there. 2 1
shyboi Posted February 21 Posted February 21 2 minutes ago, rp662 said: You know very well that the girls in here would not support a Newsom ticket either. I would
Communion Posted February 21 Posted February 21 4 minutes ago, Sergi91 said: But isn’t he white? He’ll be fine with a second Trump term. My poor Eastern European sisters with the same shade of skin as I still back in the ancestral motherland. I guess back behind the Iron Curtain it is! Maybe those jokes about dumb Americans and tankies could have been used to instead send tweets to the DNC instead.
GhostBox Posted February 21 Posted February 21 (edited) 17 minutes ago, rp662 said: You know very well that the girls in here would not support a Newsom ticket either. Any candidate put forth Kamala, Pete, Gavin, Gretchen, all would be torn to shreds by the “left” and be in the same boat Biden is. Except if we go by the polls would be worse off than Biden. a lot of people still refuse to believe it’s Biden vs trump again. But it is. Those two are the choices. Only one of them will be president. No one else. Edited February 21 by GhostBox
Sannie Posted February 21 Posted February 21 1 hour ago, bad guy said: Gay marriage was codified so that won't be going away regardless of a SC decision (which they won't go after seeing how overturning Roe completely backfired). Congress would have to repeal what they just codified into law which they're not gonna do. I don't doubt that Trump's second term will be more chaotic than his first but he has even less support among Republicans in Congress than he did his first term. And I highly doubt Republicans are going to take over the House or Senate in numbers high enough to give Trump any type of majority. So with Congress being just as divided as it is now, the chances of him getting any of that passed legislatively is slim to none. So that leaves the remaining option to pass executive orders. Executive orders are not permanent and given how much of DC hates him, Congress can overturn them. Even if he vetoes this overturning, Congress can still override it with a 2/3 vote. If a court finds his orders unconstitutional they will be fought against judicially. While I don't really have faith in our institutions I also don't see any benefits, politically or otherwise, for anyone a part of said institutions to go along with this "plan" of his. I think a more realistic outcome of second-term of Trump would be: total legislative gridlock, a few executive orders that will be challenged and therefore ineffective, more political polarization, nauseating media coverage of every breath he takes, unhinged rants/speeches/tweets, and at worst a total decay of trust within our government that will then lead to even more voter apathy as the next election rolls around. The onus falls on Democratic leaders who have failed miserably in getting their message across and delivering real solutions to the problems Americans are facing. Biden is a PR nightmare. If the DNC any care for this country they would have embraced a stronger candidate to go up against Trump and have Biden bow out like LBJ did in 1968. But this won't happen so the only option is to pump Biden with as much steroids as they can and get him out campaigning at these swing states otherwise it's gonna be 2016 Hillary 2.0 and no, it's not the voters fault for feeling too abandoned to show up and vote. Why do so many of you think codification = set in stone? The Voting Rights Act was codified and the SCOTUS demolished it recently. Codification means NOTHING. The only way to fully protect our rights is by making sure the people trying to take them away do not have the power to do so. It is a **** situation to be in, but it is how it is going to be until young people wake up and start voting. This post overall is a goddamn mess of trying to downplay the immense danger Trump will put the US plus the world in. The entire reason we are in the situation we are in right now is because Trump opened the floodgates for the Republicans to become so ******* unhinged. Trump will ensure every single person in a position of power within our government is a loyalist to him and not the Constitution. The FBI, the CIA, the military, the FDA, the EPA, border control... every facet will be headed up by a Trump loyalist. That is how our country falls. Our institutions are not set in stone, they are only as strong as the people in power want them to be, and Trump and his loyalists do not want them to be strong. Believe the Republicans when they say what they are saying. Women will have zero autonomy. Millions of document and undocumented immigrants (not the white ones) will be deported back to countries they have not lived in, in years, queer people will have their lives criminalized, trans people will be forced to detransition, black people will have their history criminalized and pulled from our schools... They want to do all of this. They will do it. For **** sakes, you even have Trump's lawyers in court arguing that he can not be held accountable for anything, that he is allowed to be a dictator and even kill his political dissidents. Get it through your heads. ----- 19 minutes ago, Sergi91 said: But isn’t he white? He’ll be fine with a second Trump term. This is how it is for most leftists. They either live in a blue state or are part of a privileged class that will not be affected by a second Trump admin. These leftists do not care about people of color, queer people, women, or immigrants in the US, but they want us to believe they actually care about people halfway across the planet? 4 5 2
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