celeb news Songwriter Tiffany Red calls out Beyonce for stealing writing credits

[GraceRandolph]

1 minute ago, Ari29 said:

If the artist doesn’t record the song, is there even any money to be split? 

That’s not the point? How much money does Beyonce need anyway?

[Leppie]

What song is 6 years old?

[MissedTheTrain]

1 hour ago, bad guy said:

It’s always funny when people who have zero knowledge of the music industry try and gaslight people who…actually work in the industry and claim they’re wrong just because they like a certain artist  
 

I watched the entire video and just because she hasn’t written for Beyoncé doesn’t make what she’s saying any less valid. She also wasn’t dissing Beyoncé, her talents, her vision, or anything of that sort. She gave Beyoncé her flowers numerous times. What she did say is that writers for Beyoncé have felt she should not receive publishing for things she did not write. She didn’t claim Beyoncé is totally uninvolved, in fact the contrary, but adding harmonies or ablibs is more of a production credit than a writing one (unless of course she adds something new to the adlibs). Even then, does she deserve to get 20% publishing for a word change or two? Especially given that the majority of the work is done by songwriters who get paid next to nothing? Songwriters in these sessions do not get paid hourly or for their time at all. The music industry exploits these people. Nobody is saying this is a Beyoncé problem, not even this songwriter, so I don’t know why stans are getting so defensive about this. If you watched the video in full she talks about how ALL A-list/B-list artists (who don’t write solo) benefit from this songwriter exploitation and that there are way worse culprits in the industry. She just used Beyoncé as an example of an artist that has so much influence to change this dynamic but chooses not to. And again it isn’t Beyoncé’s problem to solve. But to act like her leading by example would not benefit these songwriters given her massive influence is kinda silly.

 

Also the NDA thing is very real and artists’ lawyers/labels impose these heavily on songwriters. The issue really is the system these labels have created where artists receive all of the benefits that the people that helped create their vision do not get to see. In fact, Beyoncé is a rare case of an artist that sees any profits from their work since labels usually see majority of the profit. Only a hand full of A-listers have that privilege. Some of the biggest artists have less ownership over their work than their labels do which is a whole other problem within the industry.

 

With all that said, to try and diminish Beyoncé’s career to “stealing” is stupid because ultimately it’s her vision that pushes her music forward. You can give a singer the best songwriters in the world and they will never be able to replicate the career of a Beyoncé, a Rihanna, or Whitney, or Madonna, etc. 

 

TL;DR: The music industry is an even more heightened version of capitalism where the laborers gets the crumbs while the “face” of the product and their owners (labels) get all of the pie. Songwriters should just go on strike like SAG-AFTRA at this point. 

 

All of this, 100%.

 

It's an issue in the industry from a lot of artists who take too much of a cut from the publishing when they didn't contribute that amount to the writing of the song, if any at all.  The saying "write a word, take a third" exists for a reason.

 

Kelly also talked about it once here:

 

 

Love Beyonce, but the handful of examples we have of songs she has credits on + the demo before it got to her is completely the same tells me she does this, and I wish she wouldn't.  It's dishonest for one, it really shouldn't matter to you have your name in the credits if you have the talent to back up not writing it (which she does, in spades).  But as Tiffany pointed out, it's taking a cut of the pay from the songwriters, who are way too often not paid enough as it is.

[professor2000]

27 minutes ago, Ari29 said:

If the artist doesn’t record the song, is there even any money to be split? 

If Bey doesn’t record it, any artist can record it.  That song will live on regardless.  
 

Now, I do get your point that it’s BEYONCE so the recognition of having written a song for her should be enough.  Right? 
 

The issue though… is that when this song leads to another opportunity…and THAT artist also takes publishing.  And it happens again and again and again.  When will that songwriter ever actually make money?   That is Tiffany’s bigger point.  

 

It’s a much bigger issue than Beyonce, she’s just saying that Bey’s influence could help set a precedent.  
 

But in a way, I don’t actually blame Bey…b/c I’m sure the industry shafted her when she was younger.  It’s a very old school industry mentality that’s actually toxic + cyclical.  
 

Spoiler

^^^ SN: An example of this is when Tyla’s “Water” came out, I SWEAR I didn’t see Tricky Stewart on credits.  
 

But then when the song blew up, he was added.  Pretty sure he had some first single guarantee on Tyla (he did “Been Thinking” but it flopped).  Same as Doja with Dr Luke getting credited for “Kiss Me More.”

 

I bet Bey has been through the same bullshit in her DC/DIL days.  

 

So…you know, can’t blame her for playing the game to some degree.  I’m sure she lost a lot of money in her early career from this exact same thing.  

 

[LaFuerza]

45 minutes ago, Ari29 said:

If the artist doesn’t record the song, is there even any money to be split? 

This is a very Yes, And? Logic. Yes, I stole 25% of the publishing because I'm Beyonce, and? How about I have plenty of money, and I didn't write any of this song, so I'm gonna be respectful to you and not take away any of the profits meant for you? 

[ReH2o]

2024 here we go again

[LegaMyth]

I love Bey, but none if this "controversy" would be if she simply wrote her own songs.

 

I've written a few scripts, books, and songs, so I find writing easy. Mayne that's just me.

[trainsskyscrapers]

32 minutes ago, LegaMyth said:

I love Bey, but none if this "controversy" would be if she simply wrote her own songs.

 

I've written a few scripts, books, and songs, so I find writing easy. Mayne that's just me.

You might need to hire a proofreader. 

[Navyboy20]

We heard so many stories of performers like TLC and Toni Braxton going broke in the 90s because they didn't get any publishing. Now artists are demanding publishing and now everyone is crying theft. I think that performers are entitled to publishing because even if someone else wrote the song NO ONE can interrept music and bring it to life like Beyonce can, or Rihanna can, or Whitney can. I don't think its unethical to place a premium on having a MEGASTAR put your song on their album. 

 

Of course, songwriters should feel empowered to ask for what they want and stand their ground. If an artist wants your song THAT badly they will give in and negotiate with you. But if your song isn't that special/essential to them then they can also decline your terms and move on. It's literally just business at the end of the day. But don't agree to these label's terms up front and then cry about it on social media later. 

 

If you believe in your songwriting ability that strongly then go become a singer/songwriter yourself OR invest in an undiscovered artist and go make them a star. 

 

 

 

[Sexyzinger]

Why can’t she just write her own songs? Why does she keep doing this in 2024?

[vince_martin88]

Beyonce getting writing credits on Perfect (Duet) is enough proof that she doesn't write her music at all.

[dirrtydiana]

10 hours ago, vale9001 said:

Cause that recognition is meant for musicians creating music. 

idk what’s funnier, that you believe this or that you consider some of the aoty winners musicians lol

 

ot: sometimes I wish my faves had more credits but I’m also glad they avoid this type of drama 

[Zefierce]

26 minutes ago, Sexyzinger said:

Why can’t she just write her own songs? Why does she keep doing this in 2024?

Very good question

[xxxlamb]

1 hour ago, Navyboy20 said:

We heard so many stories of performers like TLC and Toni Braxton going broke in the 90s because they didn't get any publishing. Now artists are demanding publishing and now everyone is crying theft. I think that performers are entitled to publishing because even if someone else wrote the song NO ONE can interrept music and bring it to life like Beyonce can, or Rihanna can, or Whitney can. I don't think its unethical to place a premium on having a MEGASTAR put your song on their album. 

 

Of course, songwriters should feel empowered to ask for what they want and stand their ground. If an artist wants your song THAT badly they will give in and negotiate with you. But if your song isn't that special/essential to them then they can also decline your terms and move on. It's literally just business at the end of the day. But don't agree to these label's terms up front and then cry about it on social media later. 

 

If you believe in your songwriting ability that strongly then go become a singer/songwriter yourself OR invest in an undiscovered artist and go make them a star. 

 

 

 

maybe they should get 5% tops

artist get recording royalties 

they shouldn't steal publishing 

 

[Ari29]

3 hours ago, GraceRandolph said:

That’s not the point? How much money does Beyonce need anyway?

My point wasn’t about Beyonce at all. She listed people like Sevyn Streeter, Zendaya and Tamar doing this as well. Point being without them recording the song there is nothing for you as a writer to gain. They deserve something for recording and promoting the song to make you any money at all.

2 hours ago, professor2000 said:

If Bey doesn’t record it, any artist can record it.  That song will live on regardless.  
 

Now, I do get your point that it’s BEYONCE so the recognition of having written a song for her should be enough.  Right? 
 

The issue though… is that when this song leads to another opportunity…and THAT artist also takes publishing.  And it happens again and again and again.  When will that songwriter ever actually make money?   That is Tiffany’s bigger point.  

 

It’s a much bigger issue than Beyonce, she’s just saying that Bey’s influence could help set a precedent.  
 

But in a way, I don’t actually blame Bey…b/c I’m sure the industry shafted her when she was younger.  It’s a very old school industry mentality that’s actually toxic + cyclical.  
 

  Reveal hidden contents

^^^ SN: An example of this is when Tyla’s “Water” came out, I SWEAR I didn’t see Tricky Stewart on credits.  
 

But then when the song blew up, he was added.  Pretty sure he had some first single guarantee on Tyla (he did “Been Thinking” but it flopped).  Same as Doja with Dr Luke getting credited for “Kiss Me More.”

 

I bet Bey has been through the same bullshit in her DC/DIL days.  

 

So…you know, can’t blame her for playing the game to some degree.  I’m sure she lost a lot of money in her early career from this exact same thing.  

 

 

2 hours ago, LaFuerza said:

This is a very Yes, And? Logic. Yes, I stole 25% of the publishing because I'm Beyonce, and? How about I have plenty of money, and I didn't write any of this song, so I'm gonna be respectful to you and not take away any of the profits meant for you? 

My comment was not in defense of Beyonce, making this solely about her makes a lot of the arguments disingenuous. There was an entire list of artists she mentioned who do this.
 

No one just freely gives away money. Thats not logical at all especially from a business standpoint. Would it be nice, yes. But it’s not realistic

[Miley Cyrus]

can beyonce get a GED and write her own songs

this thievery has gone on way too long. miley can't relate.

[Galah]

Idk why she still does this tbh. Nobody stans Beyoncé for her songwriting prowess, and she's gonna still make millions in touring because she is a PERFORMER and everyone knows she's gonna serve in that department. Taking a cut of the songwriters' royalties in 2024 is so unnecessary, especially when they're usually already split between a dozen other people as it is. She could easily avoid this issue and it would barely make a dent in her revenue.

[GraceRandolph]

1 hour ago, Ari29 said:

My point wasn’t about Beyonce at all. She listed people like Sevyn Streeter, Zendaya and Tamar doing this as well. Point being without them recording the song there is nothing for you as a writer to gain. They deserve something for recording and promoting the song to make you any money at all.

Without songwriters these performers would just be dancers.

[LegaMyth]

So, Kelis attacked Bey for sampling Milkshake without her knowledge, but she refused to give Bangladesh his cash for Bossy for 17 years, and wanted 100% without adding much to the song? She went off on Pharrell but ended up doing the same thing she claimed he did.

[Soda Pop Queen]

LOL not this being 13 pages. it's definitely #BeySeason.

 

I see y'all tryna get ya licks in before this new Tuesday chart impacts  

 

 

[bjorn]

3 hours ago, Sexyzinger said:

Why can’t she just write her own songs? Why does she keep doing this in 2024?

Because she lacks the skill. Not everyone can be a 4-time Album of the year Grammy winner 

[LVP]

Well looks like another attention seeker who admits that doesn’t write for Beyoncé and chooses to speak up when Beyoncé is on top. That makes false narrative repeated by haters like Zefierce that “Beyoncé still does that in 2024” when you know nothing bout the process of writing her new songs.

[C-Amber]

Beyonce is fake asf and that's a fact, and she's fully protected because of her and her husband connections that they made, for years they always made those Grammy and Oscars pre and after parties for nothing.

[trainsskyscrapers]

3 hours ago, Sexyzinger said:

Why can’t she just write her own songs? Why does she keep doing this in 2024?

 

3 minutes ago, bjorn said:

Because she doesn't want every album to sound as if it came from the same 14-year-old's diary. Not everyone can be a 4-time Album of the year Grammy winner, but when a majority of those albums don't show up on any all-time list... What now? 

Fixed. 

[Album Leak]

This is really not that hard to understand

 

1) artists who aren't doing the heavy-lifting in songwriting are getting more credit than they are supposed to

2) it's especially egregious when it's huge world touring artists that do this, who do not need the money from any publishing credits, while songwriters are going broke regardless of the accolades and awards they get

3) Beyoncé is brought up as an example because of her insane wealth and influence, as she doesn't need to get into songwriters pockets' for money, but overall the issue is industry-wide and even B- and C-list artists do the same, not just Beyoncé

4) Beyoncé is also brought up because of racial aspects, as Tiffany says it's more or less expected that white artists will snub POC songwriters, but it's really awful to see POC artists also partake in this 

5) songwriters are also on very shaky grounds when it comes to negotiating about pay and songwriting credits, because of the innate power structures of the industry that are just enhanced when the artists they are writing songs for are massively rich