Mocha Posted February 17 Posted February 17 the fact that conquest is still a thing in this day and age 3
Rep2000 Posted February 17 Posted February 17 58 minutes ago, Taylena said: But will the West let Ukraine surrender now and hopefully manage a deal that lets them keep most of Ukraine territory or will they keep going until there's nothing left to defend and the country in shambles? Fantasy writing, for 200. 3
playwithme Posted February 17 Posted February 17 (edited) Avdiivka is not the last Ukrainian stronghold in Donbas. Chasiv Yar, Siversk, Kupyansk, Kramatorsk Slovyansk, Niu-York, Kostyanynivka, Vulhedar remain under Ukrainian control. Unfortunately, this was bound to happen due to the US abandoning Ukraine half a year ago. The fact that the US just threw Ukraine under the bus after taking away Ukraine's nukes, long-range rockets, strategic bombers, and enriched uranium is just despicable. I don't see how anyone would want to be allies with the cowardly and dysfunctional US at this point (especially with the Kremlin fifth column in charge). The bots are already having a field day with this, but you have to realize that russia conquering two square miles of territory while wasting 30,000 soldiers and a couple thousand vehicles is definitely not sustainable for them. Fortunately, Europe keeps ramping up aid for Ukraine and arms production so Ukraine will probably be in a more favorable position by 2025. The withdrawal of US support last year was a big stab in the back that Ukraine and Europe probably didn't expect to happen, but they are now rapidly adopting to the new reality. A reminder that everyone expected Kyiv to fall within days two years ago, and the bots are now celebrating the Pyrrhic victory in Avdiivka (which has been a frontline city for a decade). Also, there's no evidence of encirclement, this is just dumb propaganda. Edited February 17 by playwithme 6 1
4th Time Around Posted February 17 Posted February 17 (edited) 2 hours ago, playwithme said: the bots are now celebrating the Pyrrhic victory in Avdiivka (which has been a frontline city for a decade). Also, there's no evidence of encirclement, this is just dumb propaganda. How was the operation in Avdiivka a pyrrhic victory? It was one of the most important centers of Ukranian control in all the Donbas and the most well fortified frontline city. The Russians captured it with relative ease in this newest offensive and are taking thousands of prisoners who could not leave in time, it was not a meatgrinder operation like Bakhmut was, but a swift and crushing Ukranian defeat. Secondly, do you even know what encirclement means? the whole point of encircling operations is to cut off the main supply routes in and out of a city, Russia succeeded in cutting the northern road and they had fire control over the southern one. So yeah, Avdiivka was in fact, cut off which is why Ukraine withdrew from the city in a hasty retreat. Just watch videos from Ukranian soldiers, they all confirm what a terrible situation they are currently in. The odds of a victory for Ukraine will get less and less as time goes on because of vastly superior russian resources and manpower, pretending otherwise is willful ignorance. If you want Ukraine to win the war, how about you start educating yourself on how desperate the situation is and spreading awareness that Ukraine needs all the western aid it can get instead of repeating foolish propaganda that Russia is as incompetent as they were at the start of the war and that Avdiivka is a pyrrhic victory. It does nothing to help Ukraine in the end. Edited February 17 by 4th Time Around 1
Stimulus Posted February 17 Posted February 17 (edited) 11 hours ago, 4th Time Around said: The Russians captured it with relative ease in this newest offensive and are taking thousands of prisoners who could not leave in time, it was not a meatgrinder operation like Bakhmut was, but a swift and crushing Ukranian defeat. The Battle of Avdiivka started at the very beginning of the Russian invasion, and Russia had been bombing the city since early 2022. While Russia won this battle, it took almost 2 years for them to do it, and it's estimated that 30,000 Russian soldiers were killed in combat during this battle. That's not swift and Russia definitely did not capture the city with ease. Ukraine does need continued funding to prevent Russia from advancing further. The US and Europe should immediately transfer the $300 billion in sanctioned Russian central bank assets to Ukraine to make Russia pay reparations for its invasion. The invasion has already caused Ukraine to suffer an economic loss of $486 billion in addition to the tens of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers and civilians killed and displaced. Edited February 17 by Stimulus Correcting the estimated deaths
4th Time Around Posted February 17 Posted February 17 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Stimulus said: The Battle of Avdiivka started at the very beginning of the Russian invasion, and Russia had been bombing the city since early 2022. While Russia won this battle, it took almost 2 years for them to do it, and Russia estimates that 30,000 Russian soldiers were killed in combat during this battle. That's not swift and Russia definitely did not capture the city with ease Can we please stop acting like Russia has been launching full scale operations to capture the city for two years? Avdiivka has been a key city on the front which is going to entail a lot of bombardments and small probing attacks, none of which means the Russians have been conducting a large scale campaign to capture it that long. What I am talking about is the current russian offensive in the area which started at a few weeks ago and has resulted in the capture of the city yesterday. It was a swift and lopsided operation, the russians cut the city off from supply with relative ease by breaking the Ukranian lines from the north. Just because someone is pro ukraine in this war does not mean they need to lie to themselves about the reality. Edited February 17 by 4th Time Around
Stimulus Posted February 17 Posted February 17 1 minute ago, 4th Time Around said: Can we please stop acting like Russia has been launching full scale operations to capture the city for two years? Avdiivka has been a key city on the front which is going to entail a lot of bombardments and small probing attacks, none of which means the Russians have been conducting a large scale campaign to capture it that long. What I am talking about is the current russian offensive in the area which started at a few weeks ago and has resulted in the capture of the city yesterday. It was a swift and lopsided operation, the russinans cut the city off from supply with relative ease by breaking the Ukranian lines from the north. Just because someone is pro ukraine in this war does not need to lie to themselves about the reality. The main battle started in October 2023, which was four months ago. I completely understand that Ukraine needs continued funding to defend itself and I've made that very clear in my last post. But pretending that Russia captured the city in a few weeks while ignoring the months and years of the battle before that is leaning too close to Russian propaganda.
She-Rah Posted February 17 Posted February 17 Honestly the war is lost. They need to negotiate the peace agreement 1 2
4th Time Around Posted February 17 Posted February 17 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Stimulus said: I completely understand that Ukraine needs continued funding to defend itself and I've made that very clear in my last post. But pretending that Russia captured the city in a few weeks while ignoring the months and years of the battle before that is leaning too close to Russian propaganda. There was no years of battle, it was a frontline city that often came under attack from artillery and airstrikes and the occassional probing attack. Not once did Russia ever make a serious attempt to capture it until they started laying the groundwork for this current offensive. While you are correct that the main russian operation started four months ago, most of that time was taken up with shaping operations to get into better positions and artillery bombardments to soften up the defenses. The full scale Russian assault has only been going on for a few weeks and it resulted in a breakthrough and capture of the city. Edited February 17 by 4th Time Around
GhostBox Posted February 17 Posted February 17 1 hour ago, She-Rah said: Honestly the war is lost. They need to negotiate the peace agreement Would you say the same to Hamas? 1 2
Communion Posted February 17 Posted February 17 (edited) 23 minutes ago, GhostBox said: Would you say the same to Hamas? I mean, that the US *is* telling Palestine this and not Ukraine is the point they're making on double standards, but also.. didn't you just complain about people making every thread about Palestine? Edited February 17 by Communion 1
Eat The Acid Posted February 18 Posted February 18 3 hours ago, GhostBox said: Would you say the same to Hamas? The lack of depth your intelligence has is hilarious at this point Your heads or tails takes on largely complicated and multi-faceted issues is truly … something … I feel sorry for you because even people in your own party affiliation look down on your lack of intellect. 5 1
chessguy99 Posted February 18 Posted February 18 On 2/17/2024 at 2:03 AM, brraap said: What does this mean for NATO if anyone knows Means nothing for NATO. Russia is consolidating their grip on the eastern provinces. In the end, Ukraine will just have to face facts and accept the loss of territory. All NATO does is ship them ammo and spare parts, but Ukraine is losing the ability to replace their manpower loses. Most military experts are estimating Ukraine will be unable to field a force capable of offensive operations by the end of the year. This will go a long way to ending the war, but on Russian terms.
Gottasadae Posted February 18 Posted February 18 This is what "liberation" from "nazi regime" looks like in putin eyes... disgusting, yet another beautiful city burned, bombed and destroyed for a sake of sick ambitions
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