single Beyoncé - "16 Carriages"

[Kristie Kuwa]

32 minutes ago, Mystic Warrior said:

I think you can absolutely and should absolutely do both! I am not saying she should only do either or, I am just saying she is in a much better position than people who are legitimately struggling and have to still work because they do not have the same resources available. And yes, I do even mean when she was a 15 year old with a record deal with a major label. That is an incredible privilege and so impressive but it’s not exactly the sign of “struggle”. I am highly critical of billionaires as a whole so this is very much a personal bias but I don’t think it’s necessarily an unwarranted critique. Beyoncé is and will always be That Girl no matter how I feel about how she expresses it. 

What ur saying is: If ur rich, how can u have mental health problems? How can u suffer?

 

Yet so many in the industry take their lives, go down a bad path, collapse.. Bey has been surrounded by all that and then some, for you to think its hypocritical of her singing about her past pain, trauma and experiences jsur because she is super successful now is quite narrow-minded tbh.

[gettsleazy]

Genuinely one of the best songs to grace her discography.

[Mystic Warrior]

7 minutes ago, Kristie Kuwa said:

What ur saying is: If ur rich, how can u have mental health problems? How can u suffer?

 

Yet so many in the industry take their lives, go down a bad path, collapse.. Bey has been surrounded by all that and then some, for you to think its hypocritical of her singing about her past pain, trauma and experiences jsur because she is super successful now is quite narrow-minded tbh.

I believe I explicitly said that I have no doubt she feels mental hardships but the way her writing team portrayed it was that she has no choice but to overcome it through work. She could be a mental health advocate right now and prioritize it, but since she’s Beyoncé and so in demand, she has no choice but to be That Girl. I sincerely apologize that my words have been misinterpreted and I have said in a previous post I do critique billionaires as a whole rather harshly, so it’s also coming from a slight place of bias. 

[DR0GO]

And I thought I loved this song yesterday. This hit on a whole other level today.

[Bey'Knight]

1 hour ago, Mystic Warrior said:

I assume this was meant to be a response to me, and as I said, I do not doubt she worked hard and felt many real and valid emotions, but she is not only singing from her time in DC, she’s talking about the present and how overwhelmed she is from being so in demand and just wants to be with her kids.  Such a struggle for a billionaire, no doubt. 

She literally mentions being 15. The song spans her whole career not just the current day. In any case, chucking up “billionaires” to problem-less people lacks thoughtfulness. The wealth of case studies available in this day n age n ppl who’ve had and then lost, mismanaged, squandered etc is boundless. Rags to riches testimonies are non-zero. No one’s life is characterised by riches. If you have umbrella apathy towards “billionaires”, that’s one thing but to minimise their entire humanity is silly. 

[Kristie Kuwa]

1 minute ago, Mystic Warrior said:

I believe I explicitly said that I have no doubt she feels mental hardships but the way her writing team portrayed it was that she has no choice but to overcome it through work. She could be a mental health advocate right now and prioritize it, but since she’s Beyoncé and so in demand, she has no choice but to be That Girl. I sincerely apologize that my words have been misinterpreted and I have said in a previous post I do critique billionaires as a whole rather harshly, so it’s also coming from a slight place of bias. 

I appreciate your effort to phrase your thoughts and I get where ur coming from, but its a little exhausting continuously having to show people the vulnerable moments of Bey. She has always shown us things that hurt her, that deeply effected her despite a good upbringing and success:

 

Lemonade as a whole

Resentment

Otherside (which can be related back to her unborn child)

Heaven

Mine (talking about thinking of divorce)

 

Shes shown us more than once in her docus that the early DC were extremely hard on her - she didn't have a normal childhood, she had to grow up very early, then the parents drama, the DC drama where she was painted as a villain, her father publicly cheating on her mom, etc.

And those are the things we are aware of, so there are probably way more bts things that really hurt her.

I feel like all people need to do is to accept her as a human with feelings like any other person and not just as this giant popstar

 

[swissman]

Just now, Mystic Warrior said:

I believe I explicitly said that I have no doubt she feels mental hardships but the way her writing team portrayed it was that she has no choice but to overcome it through work. She could be a mental health advocate right now and prioritize it, but since she’s Beyoncé and so in demand, she has no choice but to be That Girl. I sincerely apologize that my words have been misinterpreted and I have said in a previous post I do critique billionaires as a whole rather harshly, so it’s also coming from a slight place of bias. 

You keep adding little jabs that don't align with the assertion that you don't want your words to be misinterpreted.

Anyway let's please examine the actual lyrics in question:

At fifteen, the innocence was gone astray
Had to leave my home at an early age
I saw Mama prayin', I saw Daddy grind
All my tender problems, had to leave behind
It's been umpteen summers, and I'm not in my bed
On the back of the bus and a bunk with the band
Goin' so hard, gotta choose myself
Undеrpaid and overwhelmed

 

Now, we know that Beyoncé's family sold their house and moved into an apartment to be able to fund her career. They began to rely on one income (her mother's, who was also the costumer/stylist/hairstylist for the group as well and thus had to split her time). Eventually this led to marital strife and her parents nearly broke up. So please tell me how a 15-year-old girl is not meant to feel that she has no choice but to overcome the hardship presented to her by digging her heels into her work? Would she not think that if she just keeps grinding and finds success than all her family's sacrifices will have been worth it? That if she can find success maybe her parents will be able to stop fighting and stay together?

 

Yes, it seems like your bias of her billionaire status is clouding the interpretation of key lyrics. I understand any critique of her as a very wealthy person, but I don't think that stops her from being able to talk about her past experiences, or even continue to how she feels today (missing her kids while she works).

[hallucinate]

sixteen carriages drivin' away
while i watch them ride with my dreams away
to the summer sunset on a holy night
on a long back road, all the tears i fight

[Lose My Breath]

This song really is one of her most emotional.

 

It's so good

[Mr. Duff]

I still need more listens to properly digest it. I like it at first listen but it’s not something I would play repeatedly, so I need to consume it more to really feel

it. This is the better song though, the upbeat one is so bland.

 

I have to say, her vocals are impeccable. The phrasing she does is amazing.

[Jon Snow]

1 hour ago, Mystic Warrior said:

I think you can absolutely and should absolutely do both! I am not saying she should only do either or, I am just saying she is in a much better position than people who are legitimately struggling and have to still work because they do not have the same resources available. And yes, I do even mean when she was a 15 year old with a record deal with a major label. That is an incredible privilege and so impressive but it’s not exactly the sign of “struggle”. I am highly critical of billionaires as a whole so this is very much a personal bias but I don’t think it’s necessarily an unwarranted critique. Beyoncé is and will always be That Girl no matter how I feel about how she expresses it. 

I don't think that having record deal made things easy for them. Some things were mentioned above, but she also said no one wanted to dress them. They had to do everything themselves and we probably don't even know the half of it. It wasn't that easy for four black girls from Texas as it might have been to most people. I mean, some things are still hard for her even today when she's actually rich

[Eóghan]

is it just me or the song is cutting abruptly? are we about to get another 'seamless transition' album

[Lose My Breath]

2 minutes ago, Eóghan said:

is it just me or the song is cutting abruptly? are we about to get another 'seamless transition' album

Seems possible.  The end of Texas seems like it moves into something else

[Mystic Warrior]

1 hour ago, swissman said:

You keep adding little jabs that don't align with the assertion that you don't want your words to be misinterpreted.

Anyway let's please examine the actual lyrics in question:

At fifteen, the innocence was gone astray
Had to leave my home at an early age
I saw Mama prayin', I saw Daddy grind
All my tender problems, had to leave behind
It's been umpteen summers, and I'm not in my bed
On the back of the bus and a bunk with the band
Goin' so hard, gotta choose myself
Undеrpaid and overwhelmed

 

Now, we know that Beyoncé's family sold their house and moved into an apartment to be able to fund her career. They began to rely on one income (her mother's, who was also the costumer/stylist/hairstylist for the group as well and thus had to split her time). Eventually this led to marital strife and her parents nearly broke up. So please tell me how a 15-year-old girl is not meant to feel that she has no choice but to overcome the hardship presented to her by digging her heels into her work? Would she not think that if she just keeps grinding and finds success than all her family's sacrifices will have been worth it? That if she can find success maybe her parents will be able to stop fighting and stay together?

 

Yes, it seems like your bias of her billionaire status is clouding the interpretation of key lyrics. I understand any critique of her as a very wealthy person, but I don't think that stops her from being able to talk about her past experiences, or even continue to how she feels today (missing her kids while she works).

The fact you take mentioning a writing team as a “little jab” when I’ve been very vocal that the issue I have with her is inauthenticity is laughable. It’s just another point to my opinion and it’s not intended as a “jab” to her merits as a legendary artist, which she is. I am sorry my opinion bothered you, the song itself is beautiful, but it didn’t resonate with me coming from Beyoncé and that is okay. 

[Lovett]

 

[I Melt Away]

LOVE this songs so much 

[Lovett]

 

[MrPiggyMoka]

2 hours ago, DR0GO said:

And I thought I loved this song yesterday. This hit on a whole other level today.

Right?? I had to do something for 5 hour and when I tell you when I listened to it again, my head almost exploded. Just WOW I’m so blown away with both of the songs

[DR0GO]

44 minutes ago, Lovett said:

 

[crf13]

This is genuinely one of the greatest songs in her discography! Wow! Never would have guessed that a country song would end becoming my favorite Beyoncè lead single. 

[swissman]

2 hours ago, Mystic Warrior said:

The fact you take mentioning a writing team as a “little jab” when I’ve been very vocal that the issue I have with her is inauthenticity is laughable. It’s just another point to my opinion and it’s not intended as a “jab” to her merits as a legendary artist, which she is. I am sorry my opinion bothered you, the song itself is beautiful, but it didn’t resonate with me coming from Beyoncé and that is okay. 

It seems like a little jab though.

 

It's not the mention of a writing team that is the issue, it's that you completely cut out her involvement by saying "the way her writing team portrayed it". As you were indeed questioning her supposed "authenticity" because of the song's lyrics, wouldn't it seem like a jab to then suggest she wrote absolutely none of it?

 

Perhaps I'm sensitive to this, as it's a common jab, or perhaps you didn't mean it to sound shady at all, which happens sometimes, but your reaction seems more defensive than it is shocked or corrective.

 

And to be clear, your opinion doesn't bother me, I just felt that your opinion was not accurately informed by the actual lyrics of the song and perhaps lacking some of the actual history she likely is referencing. You focused in on her saying she's "overwhelmed" and "overworked" but seem to have missed her talking about being "fifteen". And as I mentioned, at that age she had a lot of responsibility on her shoulders as the lead singer of a group for which your family sold their house to fund.

 

 

Edited February 13 by swissman

[theweekend]

this song is SO GOOD

[Eóghan]

2 hours ago, Lose My Breath said:

Seems possible.  The end of Texas seems like it moves into something else

It would be weird if act II didn't have that same rule as act 1. 

Especially if she worked simultaneously on the 3 acts during covid era

[Eóghan]

1 hour ago, Lovett said:

 

now we only need the superior song to pass the inferior song and it's all right in the world

[EarStyle]

2 hours ago, Eóghan said:

now we only need the superior song to pass the inferior song and it's all right in the world

MTE.