sillycilla Posted October 16, 2023 Posted October 16, 2023 They don’t like any Jewish person who speaks out against the government, even the victims families.
Nux Posted October 16, 2023 Posted October 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Scars said: "Now here's the weather..." beyond parody 9
Contessa Posted October 16, 2023 Posted October 16, 2023 25 minutes ago, Gaia said: For some of the more educated girlies, I need some help contextualizing this for my own sake. As an American who's been following this for the past week, I have noticed about myself that while I can recognize that what Israel's government is doing is wrong and don't agree with it; I don't really have a strong sense of empathy that leads me to act on it for reasons below: Reveal hidden contents As a gay American there are essentially 2 things I've grown up hearing my entire life (being a kid during 9/11): 1. Islam tends to lean very anti-American (especially dealing with any radical groups) 2. Islam is extremely homophobic Having this engrained into my head has made it admittedly very difficult to feel any sort of true empathy for the situation outside of the very obvious "killing people is bad" rhetoric. I keep thinking "would these people rush to save me as a gay American if somehow the roles were reversed and I was the one who needed help" and I'm not seeing them do it. Now, this could very much be false and I could be a victim of propaganda and not realize it. But there are 6 countries (that I know of) that have death as a punishment for homosexuality: Saudi Arabia (Majority Islamic) Iran (Majority Islamic) Yemen (Majority Islamic) Brunei (Majority Islamic) Nigeria (50% Islamic) Mauritania (Majority Islamic) And in many other Islamic countries, it's still outlawed regardless including Gaza (or so I saw, not 100% sure). And when you look at public perception this is what you get Virtually none of their population accepts my sexuality, more than half wouldn't accept me as a neighbor, and almost all don't believe society should accept my sexuality. It's been very difficult to advocate for a population that I do not feel would do the same for me. I've seen so many things about Muslims even protesting homosexuality in Western countries and causing issues. This is really leading to a mental road block for me knowing Palestine/Gaza is a Muslim state. Furthermore, this DEMAND that everyone NEEDS to support Palestine has rubbed me the wrong way for the same reason. Would they fight for me? I had similar issues with Ukraine last year. I do believe Israel is going overboard and is no longer within any right of "self-defense" but it's still hard for me to actively support Palestine (in a sense of promoting on my own social media, protesting, etc.). The main reason I support Palestine passively is because of their large youth population. I'm very much anti-occupation and anti-genocide from the perspective of the children affected but not necessarily pro-Palestine either. The reason is simple - Islamophobia 7
Popular Post Bhabylon Posted October 16, 2023 Popular Post Posted October 16, 2023 Using your sexuality as a reason to be okay with ethnic cleaning is so crazy to me 10 10
Popular Post sunbathinganimal Posted October 16, 2023 Popular Post Posted October 16, 2023 some messages from queer people in Gaza if that's what it takes for you to feel empathy for innocent Palestinian men, women and children being murdered 8 9
airplane Posted October 16, 2023 Posted October 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, sunbathinganimal said: some messages from queer people in Gaza if that's what it takes for you to feel empathy for innocent Palestinian men, women and children being murdered Nah this is making me so sad 😭😭
Robert Posted October 16, 2023 Posted October 16, 2023 27 minutes ago, Gaia said: For some of the more educated girlies, I need some help contextualizing this for my own sake. As an American who's been following this for the past week, I have noticed about myself that while I can recognize that what Israel's government is doing is wrong and don't agree with it; I don't really have a strong sense of empathy that leads me to act on it for reasons below: Reveal hidden contents As a gay American there are essentially 2 things I've grown up hearing my entire life (being a kid during 9/11): 1. Islam tends to lean very anti-American (especially dealing with any radical groups) 2. Islam is extremely homophobic Having this engrained into my head has made it admittedly very difficult to feel any sort of true empathy for the situation outside of the very obvious "killing people is bad" rhetoric. I keep thinking "would these people rush to save me as a gay American if somehow the roles were reversed and I was the one who needed help" and I'm not seeing them do it. Now, this could very much be false and I could be a victim of propaganda and not realize it. But there are 6 countries (that I know of) that have death as a punishment for homosexuality: Saudi Arabia (Majority Islamic) Iran (Majority Islamic) Yemen (Majority Islamic) Brunei (Majority Islamic) Nigeria (50% Islamic) Mauritania (Majority Islamic) And in many other Islamic countries, it's still outlawed regardless including Gaza (or so I saw, not 100% sure). And when you look at public perception this is what you get Virtually none of their population accepts my sexuality, more than half wouldn't accept me as a neighbor, and almost all don't believe society should accept my sexuality. It's been very difficult to advocate for a population that I do not feel would do the same for me. I've seen so many things about Muslims even protesting homosexuality in Western countries and causing issues. This is really leading to a mental road block for me knowing Palestine/Gaza is a Muslim state. Furthermore, this DEMAND that everyone NEEDS to support Palestine has rubbed me the wrong way for the same reason. Would they fight for me? I had similar issues with Ukraine last year. I do believe Israel is going overboard and is no longer within any right of "self-defense" but it's still hard for me to actively support Palestine (in a sense of promoting on my own social media, protesting, etc.). The main reason I support Palestine passively is because of their large youth population. I'm very much anti-occupation and anti-genocide from the perspective of the children affected but not necessarily pro-Palestine either. They are human beings, that alone should be a reason. They shouldn't need a justification to simply be alive. Most people are not going to focus on gay rights when they are struggling for food, water and electricity. Furthermore, among the 1000s of murdered/injured Palestinians, there will be many that are queer. You can read some of their stories above as posted by @sunbathinganimal Also, if you think Israel is some haven for gay rights, you're wrong. They try to force gay Palestinians to be spies and threaten to out them if they don't comply. 8
Both Sides Now Posted October 16, 2023 Posted October 16, 2023 45 minutes ago, Gaia said: For some of the more educated girlies, I need some help contextualizing this for my own sake. As an American who's been following this for the past week, I have noticed about myself that while I can recognize that what Israel's government is doing is wrong and don't agree with it; I don't really have a strong sense of empathy that leads me to act on it for reasons below: Reveal hidden contents As a gay American there are essentially 2 things I've grown up hearing my entire life (being a kid during 9/11): 1. Islam tends to lean very anti-American (especially dealing with any radical groups) 2. Islam is extremely homophobic Having this engrained into my head has made it admittedly very difficult to feel any sort of true empathy for the situation outside of the very obvious "killing people is bad" rhetoric. I keep thinking "would these people rush to save me as a gay American if somehow the roles were reversed and I was the one who needed help" and I'm not seeing them do it. Now, this could very much be false and I could be a victim of propaganda and not realize it. But there are 6 countries (that I know of) that have death as a punishment for homosexuality: Saudi Arabia (Majority Islamic) Iran (Majority Islamic) Yemen (Majority Islamic) Brunei (Majority Islamic) Nigeria (50% Islamic) Mauritania (Majority Islamic) And in many other Islamic countries, it's still outlawed regardless including Gaza (or so I saw, not 100% sure). And when you look at public perception this is what you get Virtually none of their population accepts my sexuality, more than half wouldn't accept me as a neighbor, and almost all don't believe society should accept my sexuality. It's been very difficult to advocate for a population that I do not feel would do the same for me. I've seen so many things about Muslims even protesting homosexuality in Western countries and causing issues. This is really leading to a mental road block for me knowing Palestine/Gaza is a Muslim state. Furthermore, this DEMAND that everyone NEEDS to support Palestine has rubbed me the wrong way for the same reason. Would they fight for me? I had similar issues with Ukraine last year. I do believe Israel is going overboard and is no longer within any right of "self-defense" but it's still hard for me to actively support Palestine (in a sense of promoting on my own social media, protesting, etc.). The main reason I support Palestine passively is because of their large youth population. I'm very much anti-occupation and anti-genocide from the perspective of the children affected but not necessarily pro-Palestine either. I implore you to read this. You have been Pinkwashed into justifying genocide. https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2014/8/9/against-the-pinkwashing-of-israel 5
Communion Posted October 16, 2023 Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Gaia said: For some of the more educated girlies, I need some help contextualizing this for my own sake. As an American who's been following this for the past week, I have noticed about myself that while I can recognize that what Israel's government is doing is wrong and don't agree with it; I don't really have a strong sense of empathy that leads me to act on it for reasons below: Hide contents As a gay American there are essentially 2 things I've grown up hearing my entire life (being a kid during 9/11): 1. Islam tends to lean very anti-American (especially dealing with any radical groups) 2. Islam is extremely homophobic Having this engrained into my head has made it admittedly very difficult to feel any sort of true empathy for the situation outside of the very obvious "killing people is bad" rhetoric. I keep thinking "would these people rush to save me as a gay American if somehow the roles were reversed and I was the one who needed help" and I'm not seeing them do it. Now, this could very much be false and I could be a victim of propaganda and not realize it. But there are 6 countries (that I know of) that have death as a punishment for homosexuality: Saudi Arabia (Majority Islamic) Iran (Majority Islamic) Yemen (Majority Islamic) Brunei (Majority Islamic) Nigeria (50% Islamic) Mauritania (Majority Islamic) And in many other Islamic countries, it's still outlawed regardless including Gaza (or so I saw, not 100% sure). And when you look at public perception this is what you get Virtually none of their population accepts my sexuality, more than half wouldn't accept me as a neighbor, and almost all don't believe society should accept my sexuality. It's been very difficult to advocate for a population that I do not feel would do the same for me. I've seen so many things about Muslims even protesting homosexuality in Western countries and causing issues. This is really leading to a mental road block for me knowing Palestine/Gaza is a Muslim state. Furthermore, this DEMAND that everyone NEEDS to support Palestine has rubbed me the wrong way for the same reason. Would they fight for me? I had similar issues with Ukraine last year. I do believe Israel is going overboard and is no longer within any right of "self-defense" but it's still hard for me to actively support Palestine (in a sense of promoting on my own social media, protesting, etc.). The main reason I support Palestine passively is because of their large youth population. I'm very much anti-occupation and anti-genocide from the perspective of the children affected but not necessarily pro-Palestine either. "How can you be gay and support people who won't support you back in return?" Edited October 16, 2023 by Communion 4 6
Shelter Posted October 16, 2023 Posted October 16, 2023 52 minutes ago, Gaia said: For some of the more educated girlies, I need some help contextualizing this for my own sake. As an American who's been following this for the past week, I have noticed about myself that while I can recognize that what Israel's government is doing is wrong and don't agree with it; I don't really have a strong sense of empathy that leads me to act on it for reasons below: Hide contents As a gay American there are essentially 2 things I've grown up hearing my entire life (being a kid during 9/11): 1. Islam tends to lean very anti-American (especially dealing with any radical groups) 2. Islam is extremely homophobic Having this engrained into my head has made it admittedly very difficult to feel any sort of true empathy for the situation outside of the very obvious "killing people is bad" rhetoric. I keep thinking "would these people rush to save me as a gay American if somehow the roles were reversed and I was the one who needed help" and I'm not seeing them do it. Now, this could very much be false and I could be a victim of propaganda and not realize it. But there are 6 countries (that I know of) that have death as a punishment for homosexuality: Saudi Arabia (Majority Islamic) Iran (Majority Islamic) Yemen (Majority Islamic) Brunei (Majority Islamic) Nigeria (50% Islamic) Mauritania (Majority Islamic) And in many other Islamic countries, it's still outlawed regardless including Gaza (or so I saw, not 100% sure). And when you look at public perception this is what you get Virtually none of their population accepts my sexuality, more than half wouldn't accept me as a neighbor, and almost all don't believe society should accept my sexuality. It's been very difficult to advocate for a population that I do not feel would do the same for me. I've seen so many things about Muslims even protesting homosexuality in Western countries and causing issues. This is really leading to a mental road block for me knowing Palestine/Gaza is a Muslim state. Furthermore, this DEMAND that everyone NEEDS to support Palestine has rubbed me the wrong way for the same reason. Would they fight for me? I had similar issues with Ukraine last year. I do believe Israel is going overboard and is no longer within any right of "self-defense" but it's still hard for me to actively support Palestine (in a sense of promoting on my own social media, protesting, etc.). The main reason I support Palestine passively is because of their large youth population. I'm very much anti-occupation and anti-genocide from the perspective of the children affected but not necessarily pro-Palestine either. What am I reading 1 5
Headlock Posted October 16, 2023 Posted October 16, 2023 52 minutes ago, Gaia said: I have noticed about myself that while I can recognize that what Israel's government is doing is wrong and don't agree with it; I don't really have a strong sense of empathy that leads me to act on it for reasons below: Why would you admit this jfc Children deserve to be slaughtered for the world to see because you don’t align 100% with the world view of a group of people?? 6 1
Popular Post State of Grace. Posted October 16, 2023 Popular Post Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gaia said: For some of the more educated girlies, I need some help contextualizing this for my own sake. As an American who's been following this for the past week, I have noticed about myself that while I can recognize that what Israel's government is doing is wrong and don't agree with it; I don't really have a strong sense of empathy that leads me to act on it for reasons below: Reveal hidden contents As a gay American there are essentially 2 things I've grown up hearing my entire life (being a kid during 9/11): 1. Islam tends to lean very anti-American (especially dealing with any radical groups) 2. Islam is extremely homophobic Having this engrained into my head has made it admittedly very difficult to feel any sort of true empathy for the situation outside of the very obvious "killing people is bad" rhetoric. I keep thinking "would these people rush to save me as a gay American if somehow the roles were reversed and I was the one who needed help" and I'm not seeing them do it. Now, this could very much be false and I could be a victim of propaganda and not realize it. But there are 6 countries (that I know of) that have death as a punishment for homosexuality: Saudi Arabia (Majority Islamic) Iran (Majority Islamic) Yemen (Majority Islamic) Brunei (Majority Islamic) Nigeria (50% Islamic) Mauritania (Majority Islamic) And in many other Islamic countries, it's still outlawed regardless including Gaza (or so I saw, not 100% sure). And when you look at public perception this is what you get Virtually none of their population accepts my sexuality, more than half wouldn't accept me as a neighbor, and almost all don't believe society should accept my sexuality. It's been very difficult to advocate for a population that I do not feel would do the same for me. I've seen so many things about Muslims even protesting homosexuality in Western countries and causing issues. This is really leading to a mental road block for me knowing Palestine/Gaza is a Muslim state. Furthermore, this DEMAND that everyone NEEDS to support Palestine has rubbed me the wrong way for the same reason. Would they fight for me? I had similar issues with Ukraine last year. I do believe Israel is going overboard and is no longer within any right of "self-defense" but it's still hard for me to actively support Palestine (in a sense of promoting on my own social media, protesting, etc.). The main reason I support Palestine passively is because of their large youth population. I'm very much anti-occupation and anti-genocide from the perspective of the children affected but not necessarily pro-Palestine either. Well...you are indeed a victim of propaganda and pinkwashing. Human rights are not transactional, and this rhetoric in the gay community is incredibly selfish and reeks of egocentrism. You don't wanna be one of the “I can excuse genocide and colonialism, but I draw the line at gay rights" folks now, do you? Last year, we saw several videos of Ukrainians being blatantly racist during the war. Is that horrible? Absolutely. Does it justify Russia's crimes against them? Absolutely not. I know many of you are tired of us drawing comparisons to Ukraine but the hypocrisy is crazy. I know this sounds "bad" but frankly...LGBTQ+ rights are the least of Palestinians' concerns when they've been fighting occupation for +70 years. No country can work out these issues under settler-colonialism and an apartheid system. Change will come from within when Palestinians are actually able to live and progress, not when they're afraid of dying every day. Also, it's almost like you guys always forget that Palestinian queer people do exist and are currently being bombed by the so-called progressive Israel. And if they're not being bombed, then the IDF is blackmailing them and threatening to out them to their families. TLDR: Liberal sympathy is extremely conditional on Palestinians being the "perfect victims". I know it sounds crazy but Palestinians don't need to be woke and progressive angels to garner empathy/support or have the most basic human rights. No rights can be gained for any minority until they're free from occupation. I could go on forever, but I really urge you to read more about this. Edited October 16, 2023 by State of Grace. 16
Capris Groove Posted October 16, 2023 Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) But have we considered that the children might be no angels? They've LOST it! Edited October 16, 2023 by Capris Groove 1
Capris Groove Posted October 16, 2023 Posted October 16, 2023 "There's even been child serial killers"
family.guy123 Posted October 16, 2023 Posted October 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Gaia said: For some of the more educated girlies, I need some help contextualizing this for my own sake. As an American who's been following this for the past week, I have noticed about myself that while I can recognize that what Israel's government is doing is wrong and don't agree with it; I don't really have a strong sense of empathy that leads me to act on it for reasons below: Hide contents As a gay American there are essentially 2 things I've grown up hearing my entire life (being a kid during 9/11): 1. Islam tends to lean very anti-American (especially dealing with any radical groups) 2. Islam is extremely homophobic Having this engrained into my head has made it admittedly very difficult to feel any sort of true empathy for the situation outside of the very obvious "killing people is bad" rhetoric. I keep thinking "would these people rush to save me as a gay American if somehow the roles were reversed and I was the one who needed help" and I'm not seeing them do it. Now, this could very much be false and I could be a victim of propaganda and not realize it. But there are 6 countries (that I know of) that have death as a punishment for homosexuality: Saudi Arabia (Majority Islamic) Iran (Majority Islamic) Yemen (Majority Islamic) Brunei (Majority Islamic) Nigeria (50% Islamic) Mauritania (Majority Islamic) And in many other Islamic countries, it's still outlawed regardless including Gaza (or so I saw, not 100% sure). And when you look at public perception this is what you get Virtually none of their population accepts my sexuality, more than half wouldn't accept me as a neighbor, and almost all don't believe society should accept my sexuality. It's been very difficult to advocate for a population that I do not feel would do the same for me. I've seen so many things about Muslims even protesting homosexuality in Western countries and causing issues. This is really leading to a mental road block for me knowing Palestine/Gaza is a Muslim state. Furthermore, this DEMAND that everyone NEEDS to support Palestine has rubbed me the wrong way for the same reason. Would they fight for me? I had similar issues with Ukraine last year. I do believe Israel is going overboard and is no longer within any right of "self-defense" but it's still hard for me to actively support Palestine (in a sense of promoting on my own social media, protesting, etc.). The main reason I support Palestine passively is because of their large youth population. I'm very much anti-occupation and anti-genocide from the perspective of the children affected but not necessarily pro-Palestine either. Thank you for expressing this. The only productive thing that can come from this thread is to educate Atrlers through discussion and I just wanted to recognize what I perceive to be a genuine attempt from you. Shame on anyone admonishing you for trying to better yourself. I am also uneducated so I can’t offer any meaningful answers to your queries, but I want to thank all the users here who have helped me to recognize some of my problematic ways of thinking and who have influenced my opinions for the better.
State of Grace. Posted October 16, 2023 Posted October 16, 2023 14 minutes ago, Capris Groove said: But have we considered that the children might be no angels? They've LOST it! It's giving "its okay to kill Palestinian children because they were gonna grow up and become terrorists"
Virgos Groove Posted October 16, 2023 Posted October 16, 2023 Some of are incapable of supporting someone without it being transactional. Has it ever ocurred to some of you that we support Palestine because... we think genocide is bad? Yes, I'm sure plenty of Palestinians would want me dead for being gay... and I still don't believe they should be oppressed, displaced and murdered. I'm not about to side with a settler colonial apartheid state just because some of you got pounded in Tel Aviv, bffr 8
wehan6 Posted October 16, 2023 Posted October 16, 2023 can't believe some of these obviously islamophobic members on here haven't been banned yet
Mocha Posted October 16, 2023 Posted October 16, 2023 astroturfing on a gay pop music forum to support genocidal zionists has to be a new low for humanity 5
LazzyGrant Posted October 16, 2023 Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Gaia said: For some of the more educated girlies, I need some help contextualizing this for my own sake. As an American who's been following this for the past week, I have noticed about myself that while I can recognize that what Israel's government is doing is wrong and don't agree with it; I don't really have a strong sense of empathy that leads me to act on it for reasons below: Hide contents As a gay American there are essentially 2 things I've grown up hearing my entire life (being a kid during 9/11): 1. Islam tends to lean very anti-American (especially dealing with any radical groups) 2. Islam is extremely homophobic Having this engrained into my head has made it admittedly very difficult to feel any sort of true empathy for the situation outside of the very obvious "killing people is bad" rhetoric. I keep thinking "would these people rush to save me as a gay American if somehow the roles were reversed and I was the one who needed help" and I'm not seeing them do it. Now, this could very much be false and I could be a victim of propaganda and not realize it. But there are 6 countries (that I know of) that have death as a punishment for homosexuality: Saudi Arabia (Majority Islamic) Iran (Majority Islamic) Yemen (Majority Islamic) Brunei (Majority Islamic) Nigeria (50% Islamic) Mauritania (Majority Islamic) And in many other Islamic countries, it's still outlawed regardless including Gaza (or so I saw, not 100% sure). And when you look at public perception this is what you get Virtually none of their population accepts my sexuality, more than half wouldn't accept me as a neighbor, and almost all don't believe society should accept my sexuality. It's been very difficult to advocate for a population that I do not feel would do the same for me. I've seen so many things about Muslims even protesting homosexuality in Western countries and causing issues. This is really leading to a mental road block for me knowing Palestine/Gaza is a Muslim state. Furthermore, this DEMAND that everyone NEEDS to support Palestine has rubbed me the wrong way for the same reason. Would they fight for me? I had similar issues with Ukraine last year. I do believe Israel is going overboard and is no longer within any right of "self-defense" but it's still hard for me to actively support Palestine (in a sense of promoting on my own social media, protesting, etc.). The main reason I support Palestine passively is because of their large youth population. I'm very much anti-occupation and anti-genocide from the perspective of the children affected but not necessarily pro-Palestine either. First I really like the fact you want to learn about things secondly you should always judge based on what’s right and what’s wrong not what they will do if you were in their place that’s not how I based my judgment at least I have traveled the world and not all of the people accept homosexuality and I get judged in Europe/us/uk but I will give you that at least in the law it’s legal now as a Saudi that I have lived my whole life here I’m tired of this propaganda the media portrays the law is based on the religion (and mostly all religions doesn’t accept homosexuality in their books) but not necessarily all is applied I have never in my whole life heard a gay got a punishment by death that’s ridiculous and I have seen a lot of comments by atrelers that can’t do some research the community here is really big and expats live here as normally I mean it’s not that good but you can live as straight people on some degree won’t continue the discussion on this it’s for another day 9/11 the majority of muslims is against it and it doesn’t reflect on them based on a terrorist attack they should never pay for it or judged for (even though the attack has ties of the conflict because America been a pro-israel and was silent for the suffer of Palestinians but who cares because the whole attack and terrorism is disgusting) Be honest what America has done to the Middle East and the world is way worse don’t act all innocent Now to be honest you should look on YouTube at least on this conflict it is no brainer Israel took a land that isn’t for them and been killing and humiliating them for the past 70 years whatever happened to israel is a fraction of what Palestinians have been suffering for their whole life (which is saddening me because of the innocent souls that’s getting in the middle of this) it’s sad the world is watching and doing nothing look now israel stopped every help to go for gaza literally they can’t have any sort of help for what??? Literally for what? They are suffering in their own land I dont understand how there’s two side for the conflict I tried to search and look for a reason why israel is a thing on the first place and I can’t find one just based on a religion that’s thousands years ago??? Edited October 16, 2023 by LazzyGrant 1
Capris Groove Posted October 16, 2023 Posted October 16, 2023 3 hours ago, Scars said: This is actually an outstanding example of subtle propaganda which everyone should watch. "We spoke about several demonstrations across Britain during which people voiced their backing for Hamas" - this sentence is not an apology but actually a reiteration of the original false accusation. And then most importantly, there's no correction, she just says it was "poorly phrased". So in fact this just reinforces the original position. 11 2
Mean Trees Posted October 16, 2023 Posted October 16, 2023 10 hours ago, Gaia said: This is counter productive. They will air this stuff and the watchers at home will think being pro-Palestinian is being aggressive, minimizing babies deaths, and justifying the act of terrorism last weekend. This goes back to my original post in this thread that Pro-Palestinians in the West really need to be careful how they present themselves in an already Islamophobic culture. You’re asking people to empathize for a large collection of people they already have been told their whole lives not to like (Muslims/Islam). But it’s disheartening because Fox News know what they’re doing by asking those questions. They’re purposely trying to anger the protesters to give them that image and push that narrative. It's a new day now. People are angry as hell now! Anyway, I have never seen such a cross section of support for Palestine. I'm surprised that man hasn't been doxxed yet. And from his accent he seems to have a Jewish New York one... No wonder they don't want to do that. 1
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