ZIVERT Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) Israeli government and the IDF has not requested Egypt to end their blockade of Gaza to let refugees flee to safety as there are other places to flee to. However, Egypt continues to spin the narrative in order to justify keeping their border closed. Not being able to take in anymore refugees due to internal crises, as well as fear of terrorism, is understandable. But this is another example of a country banging the war drums at the expense of Palestinian people without doing anything meaningful to help. Edited October 10, 2023 by ZIVERT 1
Communion Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, ZIVERT said: and Egypt made that announcement in my initial post And why did they make that announcement? "Even the Egyptians want nothing to do with Gaza!!!" is a propagandist talking point undercut by Israel having to threaten Egypt to stop the delivery of aid. 1
Communion Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 31 minutes ago, Gov Hooka said: Not lost on me how everyone quick to condemn the violence on both sides or whatever is just going to silently dissipate now that Israel is on a murderous rampage in Gaza… Bibi literally tweeting out over and over 4k videos of mass death and the reaction is...silence? 1
brazil Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 48 minutes ago, Mandalay said: We are so busted. Last night, Myanmar military made artillery strike on civilians for the nth time. A lot of innocent lives were lost. Nobody does anything. Ukraine is still being invaded by Russia. And now this Israel issue. We need to get rid of Xi and Putin. Xi and Putin aren't the only problems - albeit they are part of it. Western hypocrisy is at full display to see. 1
ZIVERT Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 Not sure of the validity of this, but many parents across Tel Aviv are receiving emails from schools informing them to delete TikTok from kids’ phones as videos of hostages begging for their lives are about to be released. God, this is so ugly and tragic.
Riverbank Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 People can take one side while entirely shifting the blame on the other til they're blue in the face, but I'm just amazed by how the situation in Gaza is almost never attributed to Hamas. The same government that redirects all funds and aid received to terrorism instead of infrastructure, all while relying on Israel for essential ressources. The same government that burned the remaining greenhouses that Israel left for them to boost their economy. The same government that forced Egypt to close their borders due to security threats. Egypt sending a few trucks to the border isn't enough to overlook the fact they they've been blockading Gaza ever since Hamas took over. Gazan refugees will number in the hundreds of thousands during this, and while it's all nice and good that Egypt shares solidarity with their Gazan neighbors, it's not nearly enough to mitigate the significant strain that such a large influx of refugees will place on Egypt's crumbling economy. And that's not even counting the security threat that Hamas infiltrators may pose in the country. 1
family.guy123 Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 Would it be beneficial to maybe ban the use of emojis in this thread? For all the atrocities currently happening, it really seems disrespectful some of the ones I’ve seen used in here
brazil Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 I hear a lot of people mention that Hamas is the reason Palestinians doesnt have peace, thats not true at all. Look at the West Bank governed by the Palestinian Authority that is nowhere close to peace and is continously losing territory due to settlement expansion. Israel at least in its current government and throughout most of its history has never really desired true peace or a two state solution. 5
Riverbank Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 Aftermath of the Kibbutz attack Spoiler Not even babies were spared apparently. Absolutely horrifying 1
brazil Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 Quote “We are fighting against human animals”. This is how Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant announced what he called a “complete siege” on Gaza, following a surprise attack by Hamas on Israel. Hummm
SeeingStars1515 Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 I can't believe that after the murder of 250 young people at a concert, the raping of women, the desecration of bodies, and decapitation of babies people are still saying "yeah but in context..." No. Full stop. You can't align yourself with humanity and "yeah but" these murders. Most of these young people were prob the same people protesting against Netanyahu. You can blame the Israeli govt for creating a powder keg but Netanyahu didnt force Hamas to do this. This was their decision and it will worsen conditions for Palestinians. You can feel an ounce of humanity without your "yeah, but..."s and of course this extends to innocent Palestinians. 11 2 1
ATRL Moderator khalyan Posted October 10, 2023 ATRL Moderator Posted October 10, 2023 7 minutes ago, SeeingStars1515 said: I can't believe that after the murder of 250 young people at a concert, the raping of women, the desecration of bodies, and decapitation of babies people are still saying "yeah but in context..." No. Full stop. You can't align yourself with humanity and "yeah but" these murders. Most of these young people were prob the same people protesting against Netanyahu. You can blame the Israeli govt for creating a powder keg but Netanyahu didnt force Hamas to do this. This was their decision and it will worsen conditions for Palestinians. You can feel an ounce of humanity without your "yeah, but..."s and of course this extends to innocent Palestinians. It’s only viewed this way because Western countries have existing alliances with Israel. 6
SeeingStars1515 Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 13 minutes ago, khalyan said: It’s only viewed this way because Western countries have existing alliances with Israel. I don't understand your point here?
Communion Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 32 minutes ago, SeeingStars1515 said: You can blame the Israeli govt for creating a powder keg but Netanyahu didnt force Hamas to do this. The Israeli government has for decades not only supported but aided Hamas in order to destroy both secular and left-wing groups within the Palestinian resistance movement. It is also on Israel to understand why their actions have backfired now that more and more Palestinians have accepted Hamas as a necessary evil to live with that Israel created. It is anti-intellectualism to demand that people somehow give themselves amnesia over how and why Hamas has become such a strong force and no different than the empty understanding of groups like Al Qaeda or the Taliban within American foreign policy if refusing to engage in the history of how the West long viewed Islamist rebels and militants like such as powerful allies Marxist foes. The uninronic attempt by some in the media and natsec world to call this "Israel's 9/11" underscores the dangers at hand when letting reactionary politics define what actions are acceptable or not. Being a victim a terror attack is not then a greenlight to finish off a slow motion genocide nor forget the objective failures and tens of millions displaced by a lost and misguided war on terror. 9
ClashAndBurn Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 49 minutes ago, SeeingStars1515 said: I can't believe that after the murder of 250 young people at a concert, the raping of women, the desecration of bodies, and decapitation of babies people are still saying "yeah but in context..." No. Full stop. You can't align yourself with humanity and "yeah but" these murders. Most of these young people were prob the same people protesting against Netanyahu. You can blame the Israeli govt for creating a powder keg but Netanyahu didnt force Hamas to do this. This was their decision and it will worsen conditions for Palestinians. You can feel an ounce of humanity without your "yeah, but..."s and of course this extends to innocent Palestinians. These are all platitudes coming from people who have **** all to say whenever it's 100x as many Palestinians per year getting killed by the IDF. You're all hiding behind both-sides-ing and whataboutisms now, but not once have either you nor the people who liked your post said anything about the innocent lives lost as Netanyahu posts videos to his Xitter account, cackling with glee over the bodies of Palestinians getting bombed to pieces in their homes. 6 1
Riverbank Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, brazil said: Israel at least in its current government and throughout most of its history has never really desired true peace or a two state solution. You can have your doubts about Israel being disingenuous with their peace proposals, but the truth is we'll never know because the Palestinian side has always refused every two-state solution that's been offered to them. The surrounding Arab states had convinced them that they could push the Jewish state into the sea, and never have to share the area with Jews again, which is why they're left with this bloody conflict. And now Hamas has made it very clear that their mission is to eliminate every Jew residing in Israel, and they won't rest until that goal is achieved. It's literally in their charter. I agree with you on the illegal settlements on the West Bank though. They're only contributing to the escalation of tension and violence between the two. Edited October 10, 2023 by Riverbank
Embustera Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 Praying for all the innocent people. Palestine will be free one day. This would not have happened if Israel had not oppressed the Palestinians. 4
ZIVERT Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 7 minutes ago, jakeisphat said: Netanyahu is finished
Antikythera Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 I feel for the innocent people on both sides, I just heard we lost two young, beautiful Brazilians who were attending the rave near Gaza. Now, Israel politics with their last political chief has been dangerous and escalating on violence towards Palestine. Eventually some kind of response would happen. We can't forget Israel just took their land, and it was not that long ago, there are a lot of people who were born before that, so it happened in a current lifetime. I know there was a lot of politics during that time, but still imagine if from day to night foreigners come to a land that u have been for the longest time, and they treat you like you are wrong. This is the kind of thing that will be a thing 200 hundred years from now, you can bet they will be still fighting. It is horrible seeing innocent Israeli and Palestinians dying and in such brutal ways. I also feel that there is nothing for me to do.
Scars Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, besaid said: You were mentioning media attention on this and not on collateral deaths in the general day to day conflict in the region not getting the exact same attention and I'm explaining to you why I think that is. 14 hours ago, Scars said: I honestly see the point you're trying to make by mentioning the "at a time" factor to justify the relevance of media reporting on the HAMAS attack, but the thing is that...I'm not really questioning or even disagreeing with the merit of the attention that recent events have gathered. That specific part of my post that you've quoted point out the double standard of media framing/reporting AND audience perception on attacks/victims depending on the perpetrator and the ongoing narrative on dynamics between Palestine-Israel, so in this case, it's hard to not read as extremely disingenuous a post that goes "well, excuse me, but the IDF has never exactly killed hundreds of people at same time, not comparable" when the numbers look like this: Ok. Again, you're overdefensive about the legitimacy of world's attention on current events despite the fact that wasn't exactly the point of discussion in my post, but point taken. Now, there's a few key points here: 1) The Hamas attack *is* a part of the "day to day conflict". It wasn't out of nowhere, didn't happen on a vacuum and/or unrelated to the conflict created in region by the existence of the Israel apartheid regime. 2) Palestinians aren't only being killed at hands of IDF on "collateral deaths", so framing the discourse to a "casualty vs planned direct attack" comparision or even an "attack vs defense" context is a bit random because it lefts out the fact that palestinians are also killed at much higher rates on direct confrontation. Having that in mind, I brought up the perpetuation of a perception and media reporting on Palestine-Israel that constantly question the humanity of the palestinian people and presume a "right" to defense for IDF, even when the optics of said "rights" is at best dubious, even prior to latest Hamas attack. Contrary to the belief of other members, last weekned events didn't represent a "shift" on the western status quo/perception on the moral dymanics of Israel-Palestine because, well, there have always been a double standard against Palestine at play. Those standards explain why we're even having conversations about the number of palestinians killed by IDF compared to israeli death yearly not being a factor suitable enough to shape the western perception on the matter, before or after latest events. As already proved by multiple examples posted on this thread after my lost post, so I won't go back and forth, palestinian lives are undervalued on western discourse. Having all of that mind, I was clearly trying to contextualize the overall dynamic. 13 hours ago, besaid said: The only path to peace in the region is a strong Israel that has a right to exist and a right to defend itself from invasion, aggression and terrorism. Ok, but isn't that already the entire premise of IDF, one of the strongest military forces in the world? Isn't that the entire premise to justify all of Israel's wrongdoings? so tell me, how's all of that working to lead the entire region to the path of peace so far? You can try to tell yourself that the end of Hamas will provide peace to the region or even blame those that seek for a secular palestinian political party, but at the end of the day, the truth is that people won't accept living in oppression and will join the forces that they believe will fight for their freedom and the end of a regime that systematically oppress them. Living with limited human rights while seeing their loved ones being treated with an aggressive and inhumane treament will push people to go even further down the radicalization route. It's unsustainable. Edited October 10, 2023 by Scars 4
TasteOfYourLips Posted October 10, 2023 Posted October 10, 2023 3 hours ago, Riverbank said: Aftermath of the Kibbutz attack Hide contents Not even babies were spared apparently. Absolutely horrifying I come from a country that has become independent only 30 years ago, we had a fair share of national uprisings fighting for our independence and in none of them my people were mass raping German/Russian women, dragging them around the city and killing German/Russian babies in their cribs. I think that speaks volumes 3 1
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