news Israel-Palestine Conflict 2023/ 2024 Mega Thread

[brazil]

Israel apologists: Blaiming Israel past actions for Hamas' attack is disgusting. 

 

Israel apologists: Hamas/Palestinians are to blame for Israel attacks against Gaza

 

[JustLikeHoney]

6 minutes ago, Communion said:

You: "ANY ATTACK BY ISRAEL WILL BE JUSTIFIED BECAUSE THEY ONLY EVER DO BACK TO TERRORISTS WHAT THEY DESERVE!!! ARE YOU SAYING THE HOSTAGES SHOULD SUFFER??"

 

User: "Of course Hamas is wrong, but I don't see how the hostages are relevant to what was said because Israel has indiscriminately killed Palestinians before when Hamas neither attacked nor took hostages."

 

You: "THERE IS NO BUT!!!!"

 

Genuinely everything you've posted.in the last 10 pages has been unproductive and done in bad faith. 

Do you not know how to use quotation marks? I have not said any of those things. 

[Nicholai]

8 minutes ago, Cardi B said:

That's one way of looking at it, Giving a 24 hour notice and letting civilians know to evacuate isn't the same courtesy the opposition gave when they invaded. 

 

As I mentioned, It's bizarre to think one can get away with such atrocities and expect no return of fire.

So you are justifying Hamas actions because Israel can't get away with such atrocities as the decades of killing, stealing and humillation to Palestinians?

[Communion]

21 minutes ago, Harrier said:

To further add to this 

 

Hamas encouraging Gazans in north to ignore Netanyahu's warnings and stay in their homes for the likely ground invasion. There is no end to their ghoulishness - they would rather their own people die as "martyrs" in their unwinnable war than go south to comparative safety.

 

How anyone can possible justify this humanitarian catastrophe that is about to unfold from any side is completely beyond me. jfc

 

11 minutes ago, Cardi B said:

And people still claim Hamas aren't a terrorist organisation, Especially people on here - Who would last a whole 2 minutes there before they're dealt with for their identity.

 

 

Hamas are doing this as a power play so they can pin the casualties on Israel, This is the same jihadist militia that people were praising and celebrating not even a week ago.

Genuinely both of you are flagrantly ignorant to what Palestinians are experiencing and have dipped into 9/11 era hysterics or bloodlust.

 

No, Palestinian forces (which include people besides Hamas) trying to combat Israeli psychological warfare and prevent mass chaos are not "trying to create martyrs". They're trying to find a way to prevent Israel from ethnically cleansing Gaza.

 

And I really only quoted the 2nd user to show that well-to-do liberals can play mental gymnastics and gobble up the state department line of Israel's right to attack and try to somehow both sides the issue despite now more Palestinians officially being dead, but all this placating and making sure blame is shared all around does is let people like the 2nd user actively call on genocide and double down that 1 Israeli Life > 100 Palestinians Lives.

[Cloröx]

Just now, Cardi B said:

 

 

Go trolling somewhere else, just stick with fandom war dear lord 

[JustLikeHoney]

6 minutes ago, Cloröx said:

You clearly have comprehension skill issue, I clearly referring the fact that with or without hostages situation Israel is always that aggressive when it comes to dealing with Palestinians 

Nope you did not say "with or without." 

 

You said "without." 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by JustLikeHoney

[Communion]

11 minutes ago, JustLikeHoney said:

Here is when you said it. 

 

So do you think the it was a good move for Hamas to take hostages?  I'm just giving you the opportunity to clear up your statement it was just probably poorly written whataboutism. 

You're literally illiterate. They're saying that Israeli violence has occurred even when Hamas didn't take hostages or organized mass attacks so, no, you cannot make the argument that the violence this time has anything to do with hostages.  

[Gaia]

35 minutes ago, Harrier said:

To further add to this 

 

Hamas encouraging Gazans in north to ignore Netanyahu's warnings and stay in their homes for the likely ground invasion. There is no end to their ghoulishness - they would rather their own people die as "martyrs" in their unwinnable war than go south to comparative safety.

 

How anyone can possible justify this humanitarian catastrophe that is about to unfold from any side is completely beyond me. jfc

This is what’s hard to ignore for me. Israel’s government is 100% wrong for what they’re doing to Gaza but their terms are clear and as an American I don’t really have any ground to criticize because America would do the same if not worse if a country had over 100 American hostages right after killing hundreds. 
 

The way I see this ending is Palestinians revolting against Hamas themselves and showing there’s a clear distinction between them and the terrorists. But right now, Hamas is very smartly manipulating the situation. 
 

Hiding in populated areas to force Israel to be cruel and make them look like the bad guys (not saying the government haven’t already been bad guys), refusing to release hostages or give statement to their current status (are they dead or actually hostages), etc. 
 

 

America was (and still is) very Islamophobic after 9/11. And part of that felt like it was due to not seeing the Middle East denounce ISIS and denounce the actions of 9/11.  After a tragedy, if there’s no clear distinction between a terrorists group and a population, the victim of the tragedy (whether the bigger opponent or not) just views the entire population as the enemy. 
 

America didn’t view ISIS as the sole enemy but Islam and believed their beliefs towards America as a whole is what lead to ISIS. And to America, Middle East = Islam due to majority of their population practicing it.
 

Maybe Palestinians there do not actually like Hamas, but I have yet to really see that. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Gaia

[KUNTPERFECTA]

10 minutes ago, byzantium said:

Forcing people from their homes and uprooting their entire livelihood under the threat of violence and starvation is not the humanitarian position you think it is.  
 

I challenge anyone who thinks “attacking and killing innocent civilians because another group attacked and killed innocent civilians” is a just position to deeply reconsider their grasp on morality. 

But that’s what Israel isn’t doing. They warn the innocent so they won’t kill them. They do directly kill and bomb Hamas terrorists which aren’t innocent at all. 

[Harrier]

11 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

Genuinely both of you are flagrantly ignorant to what Palestinians are experiencing and have dipped into 9/11 era hysterics or bloodlust.

 

No, Palestinian forces (which include people besides Hamas) trying to combat Israeli psychological warfare and prevent mass chaos are not "trying to create martyrs". They're trying to find a way to prevent Israel from ethnically cleansing Gaza.

 

And I really only quoted the 2nd user to show that well-to-do liberals can play mental gymnastics and gobble up the state department line of Israel's right to attack and try to somehow both sides the issue despite now more Palestinians officially being dead, but all this placating and making sure blame is shared all around does is let people like the 2nd user actively call on genocide and double down that 1 Israeli Life > 100 Palestinians Lives.

 

You can keep your inane Hamas apologia and incorrect assumptions about my personal life. I am actively disagreeing with that user. And I will proudly both sides this conflict while I continue to see both sides engaging in war crimes, because unlike you, I actually want to see peace in the region without violence or ethnic cleansing

 

[Cardi B]

5 minutes ago, KUNTPERFECTA said:

100% true. 
Hamas is to blame for everything. 
Israel lets the innocent people know they need to leave so they won’t risk their life, yet Hamas is willing to risk any life, their own, their citizens’ and Israelis’. 
that’s so simple to understand and there’s no other way of seeing that and twisting that reality. 

 

Very true. It'll be Deja Vu really if the hypothetical of 'Free Palestine' was enacted, I don't know if those in here are just too young or not interested in middle eastern history - But do they think Hamas are just going to say 'All in a good days work!' and resign? Do they know Hamas destroyed their own peoples pipeline's that were donated by the UN to use the plumbing for makeshift bombing? Destroying their own people's waterline & sewerage line to make bombs?  Bb-b-b-bUT They're for the people right? 

 

Only Israel only provides 10% of the water and just under 45% of the electricity, Hamas rakes in over 700 million dollars a year, 33 million dollars a month from Qatar & the money they tax from their OWN people that WORK/ED in Israel - The same people that put them in power & the masses don't see that Hamas are using the money they're meant to invest in their country where? Where is all the money that is being given to them to aid their people?  the users in here blindly saying '#frEePaLeStINE' with no knowledge at all except from what their bias arab friends are telling them?  Yeah, FREE PALESTINE from HAMAS. The SAME people who are using them as meat shields and puppets for their own gain. 

 

The same ones hashtagging that will be the same ones in here in 3-5 years having an outcry when Palestinians and Gazans are being slaughtered en masse by Hamas if the hypothetical even has a tidbit to happen. Why the **** do y'all think Egypt has such a highly reinforced wall bordering Gaza?

 

 

 

[Nicholai]

Of course there are a lot of Palestinians who support Hamas and have an anti-zionist sentiment.

 

What do you expect after decades of a fabricated and colonizer state like Israel stealing your territorry and killing your brothers?

[byzantium]

5 minutes ago, KUNTPERFECTA said:

They do directly kill and bomb Hamas terrorists which aren’t innocent at all. 

Tell that to the 1,800 and counting civilians who have been killed so far, including many children.  Or 2 million people who are at starvation risk because of the Israeli blockade.   I can't believe you are justifying this bloodlust.  

[Scars]

34 minutes ago, Cardi B said:

It's the way of war,  it's a cold sentiment and ******* sucks but it's the truth. 

 

Warnings were sent multiple times to evacuate, It comes to the point were one decides to listen or ignore it - You nor I nor anyone can tell them what to do.

I’m going to simply guess you don’t have much knowledge of the matter, which exemplifies even more the power of persuasion of zionist propaganda: people will literally spout bad faith arguments on a conflict they clearly don’t know much about only to uphold the status quo of an ethno-sate. 

 

The Gaza Strip is under blockade from both Egypt and Israel for nearly 20 years. Palestinian refugees living there have nowhere to go and there’s simply no possible logistics for over one million people living in such a small area, that also happens to be one of the most densely populated in the world, to move around the area in such a short period of time.

 

Israel is committing a war crime and heavily punishing *millions* of civilians for the death of *hundreds* of people, which was the result of an attack that didn’t happen out of nowhere to begin with, it was part of an ongoing conflict. Considering this scenario, If you personally hold this view that “war is based on cold sentiment” and basically “it is what it is”, why do you want to hold people accountable for not mourning the lost Israeli lives and for not condemning Hamas “enough” to your standards? those alleged people are sharing the same position as you.

 

It isn’t hard to notice your underlying view here that israeli lives hold more weight than the ones of displaced palestinian civilians, especially when you excuse collective punishment that directly harms millions of people in Gaza based on the actions of one military group. On the other hand, most pro-palestinian voices here explicitly reject the idea that israeli settlers deserve to lose their lives as a punishment for the actions of the Israel regime. 

 

I have to say those talking points are unfortunately not surprising coming from people that actively support a genocidal occupation.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Scars

[Thickorita]

Both sides-ing a genocide really isn't a nuanced and pragmatic take that some people think it is.

[Cardi B]

13 minutes ago, Harrier said:

24 hours for 1 million people to evacuate? Where do they go, Gaza is tiny? There is not housing or even idk, ******* tents in Southern Gaza for an exodus of that magnitude.

 

Plus, putting aside the immorality of displacing 1 million people from their homes, if Netanyahu was serious about his humanitarian "concerns" he'd have given a week and wouldnt be actively denying Gazans their baic rights to food and water

Gaza City is nowhere near that number, You're heavily criticizing Israel for 'no time' When Hamas had planned this attack with Iran and surrounding backings since 2021. They even planned a similar scale attack whilst Trump was in office but the attacks were foiled almost immediately. There's a reason why they attacked during a Jewish holiday, They knew Israel would be vulnerable. It's why it took longer to respond than expected.

 

A week? In a climate where Israel is seeing attacks from more than just Hamas now?  A week is like a decade in those times. Israel provides only 10% of the water and  I believe it's a power play alongside the latest bombings with that of the hostages.

[KUNTPERFECTA]

5 minutes ago, Cardi B said:

 

Very true. It'll be Deja Vu really if the hypothetical of 'Free Palestine' was enacted, I don't know if those in here are just too young or not interested in middle eastern history - But do they think Hamas are just going to say 'All in a good days work!' and resign? Do they know Hamas destroyed their own peoples pipeline's that were donated by the UN to use the plumbing for makeshift bombing? Destroying their own people's waterline & sewerage line to make bombs?  Bb-b-b-bUT They're for the people right? 

 

Only Israel only provides 10% of the water and just under 45% of the electricity, Hamas rakes in over 700 million dollars a year, 33 million dollars a month from Qatar & the money they tax from their OWN people that WORK/ED in Israel - The same people that put them in power & the masses don't see that Hamas are using the money they're meant to invest in their country where? Where is all the money that is being given to them to aid their people?  the users in here blindly saying '#frEePaLeStINE' with no knowledge at all except from what their bias arab friends are telling them?  Yeah, FREE PALESTINE from HAMAS. The SAME people who are using them as meat shields and puppets for their own gain. 

 

The same ones hashtagging that will be the same ones in here in 3-5 years having an outcry when Palestinians and Gazans are being slaughtered en masse by Hamas if the hypothetical even has a tidbit to happen. Why the **** do y'all think Egypt has such a highly reinforced wall bordering Gaza?

 

 

 

This is so true. Word to word. 
thats exactly the situation and it’s sad people find excuses for Hamas who destroys the lives of the poor Palestinians. 

[Cloröx]

12 minutes ago, JustLikeHoney said:

Nope you did not say "with or without." 

 

You said "without." 

 

 

Even with explanation you are still struggling to understand 

[JustLikeHoney]

7 minutes ago, Nicholai said:

Of course there are a lot of Palestinians who support Hamas and have an anti-zionist sentiment.

 

What do you expect after decades of a fabricated and colonizer state like Israel stealing your territorry and killing your brothers?

I mean if you are hiding weapons in your home and protecting their locations you are Hamas. 

 

If you support kidnap, rape, decapitations are you not Hamas? 

Edited October 13, 2023 by JustLikeHoney

[byzantium]

3 minutes ago, Nicholai said:

Of course there are a lot of Palestinians who support Hamas and have an anti-zionist sentiment.

 

What do you expect after decades of a fabricated and colonizer state like Israel stealing your territorry and killing your brothers?

Israel has held Gaza hostage for decades, ensuring the area is in perpetual poverty, giving no free mobility or opportunity, and has committed constant war crimes.  Its completely unreasonable for the Israeli people to expect the Gazans to only profess love and compassion for their captors.   

[Cloröx]

14 minutes ago, Gaia said:

This is what’s hard to ignore for me. Israel’s government is 100% wrong for what they’re doing to Gaza but their terms are clear and as an American I don’t really have any ground to criticize because America would do the same if not worse if a country had over 100 American hostages right after killing hundreds. 
 

The way I see this ending is Palestinians revolting against Hamas themselves and showing there’s a clear distinction between them and the terrorists. But right now, Hamas is very smartly manipulating the situation. 
 

Hiding in populated areas to force Israel to be cruel and make them look like the bad guys (not saying the government haven’t already been bad guys), refusing to release hostages or give statement to their current status (are they dead or actually hostages), etc. 
 

 

America was (and still is) very Islamophobic after 9/11. And part of that felt like it was due to not seeing the Middle East denounce ISIS and denounce the actions of 9/11.  After a tragedy, if there’s no clear distinction between a terrorists group and a population, the victim of the tragedy (whether the bigger opponent or not) just views the entire population as the enemy. 
 

America didn’t view ISIS as the sole enemy but Islam and believed their beliefs towards America as a whole is what lead to ISIS. And to America, Middle East = Islam due to majority of their population practicing it.
 

Maybe Palestinians there do not actually like Hamas, but I have yet to really see that. 

You are right, many Palestinians do not like Hamas. West Bank is not even under Hamas yet they get phucked by IDF everyday, pretty much telling us what Israel character is 

[Cardi B]

4 minutes ago, Nicholai said:

Of course there are a lot of Palestinians who support Hamas and have an anti-zionist sentiment.

 

What do you expect after decades of a fabricated and colonizer state like Israel stealing your territorry and killing your brothers?

Cop out excuse, Anyone who's country/motherland has been invaded in the past and seen atrocities on a wider scale should be allowed to align themselves with such groups or enact them themselves, right?

 

 

Bosnians can enact such acts on serbians, Right?

Aboriginies can enact such acts on Australians right?

Assyrians/Armenians, RIGHT?

 

 

 

I'm not stating Israel is innocent in the sentiment, But it's a ******* joke to use '75 years' as a crutch, All hell can break loose with no punishment w/ that thought process.

[byzantium]

3 minutes ago, Cardi B said:

Cop out excuse, Anyone who's country/motherland has been invaded in the past and seen atrocities on a wider scale should be allowed to align themselves with such groups or enact them themselves, right?

 

 

Bosnians can enact such acts on serbians, Right?

Aboriginies can enact such acts on Australians right?

Assyrians/Armenians, RIGHT?

 

 

 

I'm not stating Israel is innocent in the sentiment, But it's a ******* joke to use '75 years' as a crutch, All hell can break loose with no punishment w/ that thought process.

To pretend that innocent civilians deserve war crimes because they do not have complete love and respect for people committing the war crimes is a joke.  

[Harrier]

8 minutes ago, Cardi B said:

Cop out excuse, Anyone who's country/motherland has been invaded in the past and seen atrocities on a wider scale should be allowed to align themselves with such groups or enact them themselves, right?

 

 

Bosnians can enact such acts on serbians, Right?

Aboriginies can enact such acts on Australians right?

Assyrians/Armenians, RIGHT?

 

 

 

I'm not stating Israel is innocent in the sentiment, But it's a ******* joke to use '75 years' as a crutch, All hell can break loose with no punishment w/ that thought process.

Even if Palestinians voted for Hamas in 05 or support them now, that in no way voids their human rights in any sense. The same is true of Israelis who vote for Netanyahu. Civillians are civillians according to international law and anyone who attempts to undermine that fact should be treated with suspicion.

[ClashAndBurn]

Joe Biden and Jean-Pierre are repugnant