DAP Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Charles Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 I just hope there's a solution to this. It has to start with Israel agreeing to dissolve / dismantle the settlements they've made beyond Jerusalem / in the West Bank. Then hopefully some sort of borders can be established that'll be agreed upon. I don't know how that'll happen though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Communion Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 21 hours ago, Harrier said: The girls are getting real messy. Celebrating combat footage, going full neocon chauvinism talking about army strength in some warped who's dick is bigger contest, and now talking about the Jews inventing the atomic bomb and for what, like, where tf are we going with all that mess? Get a handle on yourselves. People complain bitterly about the widespread deranged violent commentary by Israelis, butthen turn around and start acting a fool themselves I'm curious how your only take is - again - some imagined hypocrisy of pro-Palestinian people as some then sweeping foil to justify both-sides'ing a genocide. Especially when 1) Aristotle's views are much closer to your own both-sides rhetoric and 2) he was praising the IDF for being strong in response to a tweet about several dying. Odd to remove the context of that tweet with a knee-jerk response like this. It's almost like neither you nor Aristotle or interested in the reality that those 21 IDF soldiers died because *checks notes* they were placing dynamite to blow up residential buildings and a Hamas rocket set off a chain reaction. Speaking of this "buffer zone" now being forced into the lexicon by Israel, it seems odd anyone is still considering a 2SS as possible while Israel advances forward with literally taking away huge swaths of Gaza (odd how a "buffer zone" isn't simply.. within the borders of Israel?). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittenCake Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClashAndBurn Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethereal Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 38 minutes ago, Communion said: I'm curious how your only take is - again - some imagined hypocrisy of pro-Palestinian people as some then sweeping foil to justify both-sides'ing a genocide. Especially when 1) Aristotle's views are much closer to your own both-sides rhetoric and 2) he was praising the IDF for being strong in response to a tweet about several dying. Odd to remove the context of that tweet with a knee-jerk response like this. It's almost like neither you nor Aristotle or interested in the reality that those 21 IDF soldiers died because *checks notes* they were placing dynamite to blow up residential buildings and a Hamas rocket set off a chain reaction. Speaking of this "buffer zone" now being forced into the lexicon by Israel, it seems odd anyone is still considering a 2SS as possible while Israel advances forward with literally taking away huge swaths of Gaza (odd how a "buffer zone" isn't simply.. within the borders of Israel?). I wonder what your point might actually be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittenCake Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethereal Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 (edited) The problem with one state Palestine is not just "Palestinians taking revenge on Jews" narrative but the main problem is Israel can and will block it and it'll likely turn into another violent episode where Israel "has the right to defend itself" over and over again. And if they are not capable of defending their interests, USA will intervene against the Arabs "see they were Nazis all this time, Israel was right" due to Israeli casualties of war. Edited January 26 by Aristotle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Communion Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 (edited) 1 hour ago, Aristotle said: I wonder what your point might actually be? That commentary about the IDF being "weak" may not be either chauvinistic or about boasting with regards to brute military force but highlighting how the IDF are so ideologically committed to their actual goal - the cruel violence and torture of the Palestinian people - that they keep running into situations where their desire to see Palestinians suffer makes them wildly open to even simple counter-attacks by Hamas resistance fighters. Despite the constant assertion by others of myself being a "tankie", I'm a through and through pacifist and don't share military / combat footage because I find the entire affair unsettling, but such does not mean I don't come across it. And from what I've seen, it's odd to me that those who claim to be pro-Palestine don't easily understand how the takeaway from things like people sharing IDF's constant blunders is to highlight that their unsophisticated goal is genocide and not highly sophisticated and tactical warfare. 21 Israeli soldiers got blown up because they were more invested in destroying homes than any so-called peace mission their nation claims they're on. That sounds like the mind of a populace weakened by the short-sightedness that comes with genocidal hatred. Edited January 26 by Communion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriser Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 2 hours ago, Communion said: That commentary about the IDF being "weak" may not be either chauvinistic or about boasting with regards to brute military force but highlighting how the IDF are so ideologically committed to their actual goal - the cruel violence and torture of the Palestinian people - that they keep running into situations where their desire to see Palestinians suffer makes them wildly open to even simple counter-attacks by Hamas resistance fighters. Despite the constant assertion by others of myself being a "tankie", I'm a through and through pacifist and don't share military / combat footage because I find the entire affair unsettling, but such does not mean I don't come across it. And from what I've seen, it's odd to me that those who claim to be pro-Palestine don't easily understand how the takeaway from things like people sharing IDF's constant blunders is to highlight that their unsophisticated goal is genocide and not highly sophisticated and tactical warfare. 21 Israeli soldiers got blown up because they were more invested in destroying homes than any so-called peace mission their nation claims they're on. That sounds like the mind of a populace weakened by the short-sightedness that comes with genocidal hatred. A lethal accident occured in a dangerous warzone, you're applying ten different lenses of interpretation to it but this is the actual basic reality. It doesn't speak to any bigger point. You attempt to ideaologise and justify others sharing IDF blunders & combat footage and doing chauvinism - but for me, I think it's actually more base, us vs them bullshit. Look how weak and pathetic the other team are compared to our glorious revolutionaries. Look how savage and brutal they are in comparison to the humane, pious freedom fighters. Certain members of this thread have been pushing this narrative for weeks. I know you've seen it. You apply academic language to make the actions of other members seem more thoughtful and considered, but i know what I've read. I believe you when you say you think you're a pacifist, which is also a term I identify with. I do distinguish between members and what they're posting. I know while you don't agree with me, I can tell you can at least see why I take issue with some of what is posted in here. For me the glorification of destruction, the language of revolution, resistance, martydom, the claimed inevitability of violent confrontation, no peace on stolen land - this is not pacifism. This isn't anti-violence or the words of people who want immediate ceasefire. It's the language of people that want blood. In the end I'm a lib and I just will never be on board with that ****. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rihannafan Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 4 minutes ago, Harrier said: A lethal accident occured in a dangerous warzone, you're applying ten different lenses of interpretation to it but this is the actual basic reality. It doesn't speak to any bigger point. You attempt to ideaologise and justify others sharing IDF blunders & combat footage and doing chauvinism - but for me, I think it's actually more base, us vs them bullshit. Look how weak and pathetic the other team are compared to our glorious revolutionaries. Look how savage and brutal they are in comparison to the humane, pious freedom fighters. Certain members of this thread have been pushing this narrative for weeks. I know you've seen it. You apply academic language to make the actions of other members seem more thoughtful and considered, but i know what I've read. I believe you when you say you think you're a pacifist, which is also a term I identify with. I do distinguish between members and what they're posting. I know while you don't agree with me, I can tell you can at least see why I take issue with some of what is posted in here. For me the glorification of destruction, the language of revolution, resistance, martydom, the claimed inevitability of violent confrontation, no peace on stolen land - this is not pacifism. This isn't anti-violence or the words of people who want immediate ceasefire. It's the language of people that want blood. In the end I'm a lib and I just will never be on board with that ****. You thought you ate with this 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Communion Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Harrier said: A lethal accident occured in a dangerous warzone Northern Gaza is barren and nearly lifeless. It is not a "warzone" when such words mean where active and inescapable combat takes place. If Northern Gaza was a combat zone, the IDF wouldn't have time to film themselves spending an hour to break into the safes of Gazan households and make funny videos about personal items like lingere that they find. The IDF is spending their time literally ethnically cleansing the land and are sending men to blow up residential buildings to prep it for land developers. I literally cannot be convinced to not recognize that such avoidable death is a product of hubris genocidal hatred inherent to the Zionist Israeli way of life. You may find it "romanticizing", but I think it's important to differentiate between when someone dies because he saw his mother or sister shot by a sniper versus someone dies because they wanted more luxury hotels built to the south of their country and blew themselves up by accident like an idiot. We are never going to agree because you believe any barbarism people can view the IDF of doing is outweighed by what you see as barbarism within Palestinians as a people - the issue being your evidence for this alleged barbarism is not decades of assymetrical violence (like cast upon Israel's docket) but for the sheer fact that they are largely Muslim. Edited January 26 by Communion 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClashAndBurn Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 hour ago, Harrier said: A lethal accident occured in a dangerous warzone, you're applying ten different lenses of interpretation to it but this is the actual basic reality. It doesn't speak to any bigger point. You attempt to ideaologise and justify others sharing IDF blunders & combat footage and doing chauvinism - but for me, I think it's actually more base, us vs them bullshit. Look how weak and pathetic the other team are compared to our glorious revolutionaries. Look how savage and brutal they are in comparison to the humane, pious freedom fighters. Certain members of this thread have been pushing this narrative for weeks. I know you've seen it. You apply academic language to make the actions of other members seem more thoughtful and considered, but i know what I've read. I believe you when you say you think you're a pacifist, which is also a term I identify with. I do distinguish between members and what they're posting. I know while you don't agree with me, I can tell you can at least see why I take issue with some of what is posted in here. For me the glorification of destruction, the language of revolution, resistance, martydom, the claimed inevitability of violent confrontation, no peace on stolen land - this is not pacifism. This isn't anti-violence or the words of people who want immediate ceasefire. It's the language of people that want blood. In the end I'm a lib and I just will never be on board with that ****. Just say you don't view the Palestinians whose homes those soldiers were rigging with demolition explosives for a viral TikTok demolition as humans. At least you'd be honest for once instead of mealy-mouthed botheside-sing an ethnic cleansing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
State of Grace. Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Not very hopeful about this....but the court just decided prima facie that South Africa has standing to purse the case and that there is plausible risk of Israel committing genocide 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloröx Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Ahhhhhh we won guys, ISISrael aka modern Nazi is over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloröx Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 minute ago, State of Grace. said: Not very hopeful about this....but the court just decided prima facie that South Africa has standing to purse the case and that there is plausible risk of Israel committing genocide Indeed but it's a good start 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloröx Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 I wonder how many countries will start backtracking and not vocally supporting ISISrael in da future, we have solid case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroSuitBritney Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Ruling coming any minute now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloröx Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloröx Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Ahhh this is huge, we need a banner for this @Bloo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroSuitBritney Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 So they ruled in favor of SA… but no ceasefire demand??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriser Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 **** ruling, didn't even call for ceasefire Telling Israel to "contain" the violence as much as possible ain't going to do **** and is basically not that much more than the Biden administration is doing (ie nothing bc Israel is doing what it wants). Disgusted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jjang Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 so basically “yes Israel you’re committing mass acts of genocide, but let’s give you another chance to correct yourself! try to hold yourself accountable sweetie!” 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClashAndBurn Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 The neoliberals are excited about this ruling and calling it a nothingburger. Because it is. ”they ruled that Israel can’t do a genocide, but they already aren’t, so nothing changes!” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
State of Grace. Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 You better feed the Palestinians before you slowly bomb them to pieces! You still have another month baby! Truly the International Circus of Jokers I believe that it's still a legal defeat for Israel and its PR image in a way, but how is the Israeli regime supposed to prevent acts of genocide if you don't call for an immediate ceasefire? The genocide continues. 2 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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