Aethereal Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 In my experience with translating comments, Israeli people have a very similar mentality to right-wing Evangelical Christians. Some could argue that Israelis are more right-wing than White Evangelical Republican but I would disagree with that as Israel has been in conflict for decades so certain situations will trigger nationalists to say more nasty stuff online compared to white right-wing Christians (even the white right-wing bible belt republicans are not that far away seeing some of their tweets and comments either way). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrier Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 50 minutes ago, Communion said: Not the mocking of a Palestinian user for not wanting to live under occupation by someone who has ALSO themselves argued that Ukrainians (rightfully!) will not stop fighting until even Crimea is free of Russians despite a decade or so passing by. At what point did Israel get to claim they're here to stay that then also applies to other conflicts? Genuinely shocking how people can't realize they're looking at their own future in the eyes when dehumanizing Palestinians. The irrational hatred of Palestinians by ATRL's non-Jewish Zionists ironically showcasing just how poorly America and the Western world has misunderstood what Israel represents to much of the Global South and those within the imperial core forced to recognize the blatant violence. That literally anyone who is not a Raytheon sales rep sees the struggles of Palestinians and Ukrainians as analogous (and thus it takes a glaring lack of self-awareness or deep white supremacist hatred of Arabs to somehow be pro-Ukrainian yet also pro-Israel). That the bonafides America claims as somehow a bastion of democracy, freedom, and human rights in the world collapse under the weight from the brazen contradictions in its unquestionable support for Israel. Assad is a monster who used chemical weapons on his people? Well thank god America can criticize h- oh ****, here are a bunch of tweets of Israelis happily sharing videos of Palestinian children crying trying to wash the burning white phosphorus off of their skin. Racism is normalized in China and Muslim minorities are culturally repressed? Thank god America values human r- oh ****, here is a video of one of the leading ministers in Israel calling Muslims and Arabs their ancestral enemies and that Israel will not rest until the IDF claims back all of Greater Israel, including Jordan & Lebanon. Iran is a theocracy that subjugates women through the usage of violence? Thank god America is here as a fighter for wom- oh ****, here is a state department whistleblower saying Israel literally shut down a US watchdog when the US asked the Israeli government about a tip about child rape occurring in Israeli prisons. Russia meddled in the US election by trying to sway public opinion on social media? Thank god the US is well prepared to fend off foreign infl- oh ****, CNN headline just announced reading "AIPAC ANNOUNCES 100 MILLION IN NEW FUNDING VOWING TO PRIMARY EVERY WOMAN OF COLOR MEMBER OF THE SQUAD!" Israel's existence undermines America's standing in the world. Joe Biden is single-handedly tanking his presidency via his unconditional support for Israel. There is no future in which the Western world can claim it values human rights for as long as it allows the Israeli settler state to continue to exist via unconditional and constant economic and military support. The American people paid for the bombs to kill 21,000 people and counting. I actually agree with almost all of this post, particularly your points about Biden sabotaging his presidency and Israel undermining Western legitimacy through its brutality. I am happy that pretty much all Western countries except for the United States now support ceasefire, and I am pleased that my country told Israel to excercise restraint literally on day 1. However, I am certain that Israel would continue to exist even if America cut off its aid. It is ultimately propped up not by American aid dollars but instead by the drive to survive of its core Israeli Jewish population. Short of violence, I don't think it is within the West's ability to end the state of Israel. I do think it could force a two state solution, though, through sanctions & pressure and I would support those efforts. This is with the caveat, though, that the withdrawal of Western support cannot be taken as a greenlight for military aggression against Israel. To reply to the other post - I am very much aware of these numbers and the scale of Palestinian suffering. What you and others miss about my arguments is that I am fighting against narrarives in here that I believe are contributing to the genocide by propping up Hamas. It's not more complicated than that. Nationalism is an obstacle to descalation. To use an unwieldy/stereotypial example, I kind of see it as like an outsider urging the German people to push the Nazis to surrender power in 1945 in order to save lives and prevent **** like Dresden. The way the allies conducted themselves, while normal in that pre-UN historical context, is analogous to Israel's brutality. If Palestinian lives are our chief concern, then surely Hamas' abdication should be welcomed by the left? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethereal Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 8 minutes ago, Communion said: You mean like... the kind of anger to then launch after 5 years of increased brutality a counter-insurgency that kills 700 people? It's odd you seem able to disassociate the Israeli state apparatus from the people its comprised of yet continually frame resentment to being occupied and wanting the abolishing of Israel by Palestinians as *the* driving force of violence (and not Israel's existence). I think you're constantly getting pushback because you're ironically refusing to address within reality. 700 people killed is dwarfed by 21000. Theoretical conspiracies that frame criticisms of normalized apartheid as demonizing of Israeli Jews to then lead to their mass slaughter is dwarfed by the Israeli state and the majority of its citizens actively participating in the demonizing of Palestinians to justify their mass slaughter. The theoretical suffering of Gazans under Hamas is dwarfed by the mass extinction of them under Israel. What you "worry" *might* happen to Israelis if they were denied their own (ethno)-state is.. literally happening to Palestinians. And this is why the situation is complicated. You can blame Israel for radicalizing Palestinians and rightfully so but what has been done cannot be erased. You cannot get a single state solution with both of them in. Israelis will have to leave at the best scenario. On the other hand the two state solution will continue like the past decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specter Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Aristotle said: Israelis will have to leave at the best scenario. Please. I beg. Let's all stop giving ANY credence to the idea that a solution anyone serious is proposing is the displacement of Israeli Jewish citizens. This **** is perpetuated also by bad-faith actors when in places like the United States and Canada, conversations about land rights and native populations happen, at which point some hysterical white lady shrieks "WHERE WILL I GO?" Israel should not exist = Israel as a state with its current borders should not exist. It's so funny to me how the land available to Palestinians has been shrinking horribly — showing y'all just how unfortunately malleable "borders" can be — and yet this acknowledgement is never present when it comes to the rather timid idea of Israel's configuration as a state having to change. Edited January 3 by Phantom 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethereal Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, Phantom said: Please. I beg. Let's all stop giving ANY credence to the idea that a solution anyone serious is proposing is the displacement of Israeli Jewish citizens. This **** is perpetuated also by bad-faith actors when in places like the United States and Canada, conversations about land rights and native populations happen, at which point some hysterical white lady shrieks "WHERE WILL I GO?" Israel should not exist = Israel as a state with its current borders should not exist. It's so funny to me how the land available to Palestinians has been shrinking horribly — showing y'all just how unfortunately malleable "borders" can be — and yet this acknowledgement is never present when it comes to the rather timid idea of Israel's configuration as a state having to change. I don't think you understand what I am talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specter Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, Aristotle said: I don't think you understand what I am talking about. Unless I misread (possible) because it is pretty late here and I am sleep deprived, your post that I quoted was implying that Israelis and Palestinians cannot be in one state, correct? And that the best scenario is Israeli citizens having to leave? If there is broader context I am missing, my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45seconds Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 hours ago, State of Grace. said: Of course, there are people in Israel who are against the war crimes happening there but the majority of Israelis are genocidal freaks. Manyyyyy of them have blood on their hands as well because Israel made IDF service mandatory. So they're barely even "civilians". The Israeli "liberals" like the ones listed above might oppose Bibi and his government but they're still 100% pro-apartheid and pro-occupation. That's the "normal" state there for all parties from left to right wing. All of the parties are in agreement when it comes to this. Israel is a genocidal society and liberal zionists are still...zionists at the end of the day. Can you quickly list all the non-Arab political parties in Israel that oppose the occupation and genocide? Or I'll do it for you: Meretz. ONE party. And they quite literally couldn't even garner enough votes to get a seat in the Knesset. You're just being purposefully dense if you still believe that a liberal government wouldn't have been murdering and carpet-bombing Gazans too. You still absolutely danced around my original comment. Polling does not justify the bombing and kidnapping of civilians. I find it bizarre when pro Israel claim that Palestine is Hamas (who were elected) to justify killing people and the reverse is also true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOSS Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 6 hours ago, ClashAndBurn said: It took them THIS long to condemn stated intent to commit ethnic cleansing from Israeli government officials? What about the comments Netanyahu reportedly made in the Likid meeting a few days ago? Yall gonna ignore that one? Why is this coming from a state department employee on Twitter Biden needs to say something. He looks worse each day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClashAndBurn Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, VOSS said: Why is this coming from a state department employee on Twitter Biden needs to say something. He looks worse each day. Biden himself supports the ethnic cleansing, so getting him to make a statement against Ben-Gvir and Smotrich is going to be difficult. It's clear that the State is having to go around the president to secure US interests and save face. As it has had to do throughout his and Trump's entire presidencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirateking Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 8 hours ago, Harrier said: I don't deny the reality of Israeli bloodlust following Oct 7th - I instead fight against the reason for posting and spreading it, which in the case of Hamas supporting members, is to justify Oct 7th and more violence of that nature. But anyone with any understanding of history knows it is normal in wartime for a populace to be emotional and angry at their enemies. This does not mean that we should undermine their civillian status, as members continuously do so. International law exists for a reason - it's not WW2 anymore. There are polls showing massive Palestinian support for violence and/or for Hamas. These are often used to justify the genocide in Gaza. This is unacceptable and members can see that. Yet they are happy to dehumanize Israeli Jews in the same manner, because its about tribalism and not about principles. Again, everything I argue here is about fighting against narratives that contribute to violence. I desperately want ceasefire. The left at the moment seems decidedly unsure and all over the place aboit if it actually wants ceasefire and that is... scary. ^ when western right-wing nazi media is your only source of information. stfu Harrier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOCK Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Same tired tactic. Publicise a horrific headline, then retract quietly once it’s spread & served its purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendulum Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Ukrainians vehemently defending Israhell is mind-boggling let's ask Azov what they think! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckitty Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Biden has publicly been extremely zionist for like half a century now, idk why some people expect anything from him that's why i find it funny when democrats tell arab & muslim americans boycotting the elections that trump would've been worse to palestinians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirateking Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 minutes ago, Luckitty said: Biden has publicly been extremely zionist for like half a century now, idk why some people expect anything from him that's why i find it funny when democrats tell arab & muslim americans boycotting the elections that trump would've been worse to palestinians Fun fact: Trump is the only president this century to not start any new wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrier Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 hours ago, pirateking said: ^ when western right-wing nazi media is your only source of information. stfu Harrier! lmao thank you for your mass downvotes and your highly ingelligent nuanced reply, go off sis its so true though only someone consuming nazi media could possibly make my terrifyingly bigoted pro-peace arguments, you got me ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirateking Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Harrier said: lmao thank you for your mass downvotes and your highly ingelligent nuanced reply, go off sis its so true though only someone consuming nazi media could possibly make my terrifyingly bigoted pro-peace arguments, you got me ! my issue is that youre acting like the damages are severe and equal on both sides when this mess is one-sided and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians only Edited January 3 by pirateking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOCK Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Do… they know they’ve got a genocide case with the ICJ next week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jjang Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 apparently locking people up away from the rest of society for 20 years is not violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jjang Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 35 minutes ago, FOCK said: Do… they know they’ve got a genocide case with the ICJ next week? second video is horrifying. These people completely and utterly lost all context of humanity. #IOF-ISIS think once they wear those uniforms they are allowed to play God. And they will go back to Israel as “normal civilians”. free of any guilt or accountability. Edited January 3 by Jjang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOCK Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 12 minutes ago, Jjang said: second video is horrifying. These people completely and utterly lost all context of humanity. #IOF-ISIS think once they wear those uniforms they are allowed to play God. And they will go back to Israel as “normal civilians”. free of any guilt or accountability. It is horrifying. But what’s new with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClashAndBurn Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 16 hours ago, Harrier said: There are polls showing massive Palestinian support for violence and/or for Hamas. These are often used to justify the genocide in Gaza. This is unacceptable and members can see that. Yet they are happy to dehumanize Israeli Jews in the same manner, because it’s about tribalism and not about principles. The difference here is that Israelis have the privilege of being hateful and revanchist while under the relative comfort of an Iron Dome keeping them safe from Hamas rocket barrages. And not every Palestinian is Hamas, yet they are regarded as such when Israel takes them prisoner, strips them down to their underwear and publishes their pictures on the internet with zero pushback from Joe Biden. Palestinians don’t have that luxury, and the “war” is a one-sided occupation. Your constant insistence on both-sides-ing a completely lopsided conflict that has the full backing of a deranged, genocidal US president completely shows your willingness to carry water for an ethnic cleansing campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckitty Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 genocide gaslight gatekeep 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIT Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) Edited January 3 by LIT Update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClashAndBurn Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 One of the most profoundly evil, twisted men in the entire US Government. He cried tears over white Ukrainians being killed by Russia and called that a genocide, but he provides cover when Israel slaughters tens of thousands of Palestinians. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOCK Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) “Meritless and without any basis” Sure. Edited January 3 by FOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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