news Israel-Palestine Conflict 2023/ 2024 Mega Thread

[DAP]

 

[Daddy]

4 hours ago, Kassi said:

In fact, many have started to recognize Israel and are aligning with its efforts towards achieving regional peace and stability.

Your propaganda isn't working on us normal people, little Nazi...

[Communion]

6 hours ago, Kassi said:

Or, I simply have a first person frame of reference for what constitutes a genocide.
 

By this time, ~80 days, in the genocide I survived, the death toll was over 500,000 and they didn’t have planes. There were no humanitarian pauses, leaflet warnings, or ceasefire proposals. 

Are you actually using... the Rwandan genocide (I'm not sure what other event you could be trying to reference?) as some carte blanche to silence Palestinians and defend the literal extermination goals of Israel, as stated by every high ranking figure in the Israeli government? Do you not see how cynical and perverse such is?  

 

This type of powerscaling you're attempting with regards to Palestine ignores that population numbers have nothing to do with how genocide is defined (where intent matters most).

Edited December 27, 2023 by Communion

[ClashAndBurn]

Wait. Not the Free Parking Lady actually acknowledging the friendly fire casualties

Edited December 28, 2023 by ClashAndBurn

[Kassi]

11 hours ago, ClashAndBurn said:

The central, unaddressed elephant in the room is the fact that Israel is openly declaring intent to push Gazans into Egypt, and yet their Zionist supporters in the West are still providing them cover by asserting plausible deniability.

 

Very notable that the US media, US government, and Joe Biden’s idiotic simps refuse to acknowledge reality.

 

 

Those Jews haven’t suffered through 7 consecutive decades of American bombs being dropped on their heads without an Iron Dome to keep them safe from rocket salvos. Actually the most inhumane take I’ve ever seen. Truly beyond evil.  

And when it doesn’t happen (because it won’t)? Then what? 
 

Eventually, one day, you’ll have to drop the false narratives.

 

 

[Kassi]

7 hours ago, Communion said:

Are you actually using... the Rwandan genocide (I'm not sure what other event you could be trying to reference?) as some carte blanche to silence Palestinians and defend the literal extermination goals of Israel, as stated by every high ranking figure in the Israeli government? Do you not see how cynical and perverse such is?  

 

This type of powerscaling you're attempting with regards to Palestine ignores that population numbers have nothing to do with how genocide is defined (where intent matters most).

Words have meaning.

Israel’s intent is to stop being attacked. Hamas can end this tomorrow.

[Communion]

3 minutes ago, Kassi said:

Words have meaning.

Israel’s intent is to stop being attacked. Hamas can end this tomorrow.

 

16 minutes ago, Kassi said:

And when it doesn’t happen (because it won’t)? Then what? 
 

Eventually, one day, you’ll have to drop the false narratives.

 

 

I'm sorry but this is grossly a misappropriation of identity politics. 

 

Countless people who went through the Rwandan genocide, in addition to thousands of genocide scholars consider Israel's actions against Palestinians to be genocide.

 

Let alone - again - the metrics of population you were are not how genocide is defined, and if it were, this:

 

And this:

 

Tell very similar stories. 

[ClashAndBurn]

2 hours ago, Kassi said:

And when it doesn’t happen (because it won’t)?

Says whom? Biden? Who said quite clearly that there are no red lines for Israel and that they can do whatever they want?

 

2 hours ago, Kassi said:

Hamas can end this tomorrow.

Except if Hamas surrendered, there would be nothing stopping Israel from continuing what they're doing now. The goal is not, and has never been, about stopping Hamas. It's about clearing Gaza for real estate development and to appease the radical settlers who want to purge the West Bank as well.

 

Israel clearly has the intent to go full genocide, and will obviously do so the moment a Republican president wins the White House and gives them full support to do so. And if Biden didn't have re-election to be concerned about, he'd be just as all-in on supporting the ethnic cleansing campaign as Trump, Haley and DeSantis have all declared they would be. He wouldn't be saying a damn word about Israel due to his being to the right of Ronald Reagan on the issue.

[Jjang]

Definition: 

 

Quote

The United Nations Genocide Convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group"

Quote

killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group:

100,000+ killed or severely wounded from direct Zionist attacks. This constitutes 5% of Gaza's population. The equivalent of killing or wounding 400,000+ Israelis in 2 months. 

 

Quote

deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part:

40% of all housing units were destroyed in Gaza, directly causing 800,000 to become immediately homeless. The equivalent of destroying the homes of 4,000,000 Israelis. 

 

600,000 are starved as a direct result of the deliberate illegal military blockade imposed by Israel that cut all life sources from entering Gaza (food, water, medicine, electricity, internet) and killed/tortured a so far unknown number (because deaths not directly due to Israeli strikes are not counted so far) of Palestinians due to this man-made genocidal blockade. That's the equivalent of starving 3,000,000 Israelis. 

 

2,000,000 Palestinians were displaced (as a direct result of Israeli orders - to which if they were rejected they would be killed, as stated by Israel) indefinitely under these genocidal life conditions with nowhere to go - all while Israeli leaders are publicly calling for the transfer of the entire population to a different region. That's the equivalent of displacing 9,000,000+ Israelis. 

 

Quote

imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

- bombing or evacuating hospitals (and killing newborn babies in incubators in the process) 

- over-exhausting hospitals to the point of collapse 

- displacing tens of thousands of pregnant women with no treatment available on-site 

 

 

-------

 

I don't argue with Zionists for the sake of arguing with them. I know for a fact that if 500,000 Gazans were dead by now they would be still here, spewing the same bs, playing the same distraction tactics, and arguing with the same bad faith - because having a genuine open-minded argument is not within their intentions. They have one goal and that is to normalize Israel's fascist ideology. But ironically they're not running fast enough to catch up to Israel's atrocities and that exposed them.

 

again:

 

they went from "It's not ethnic cleansing, it's a legal landowner/rent battle!" to "so what if it's ethnic cleansing? You should be thankful the genocide is not as intense as other genocides that happened in history" in just two years. 

 

I bet you 100% that if this fascist military campaign is successful and they ethnically cleanse Gaza and start re-settling there (however years it may take), the same Zionist members here are gonna invent an elaborate cover-up as to why it happened and why Palestinians don't have the right to return to Gaza and why Jews from Chicago, Paris, and Warsaw have more rights than Palestinians to live in Gaza. 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Jjang

[Kassi]

4 hours ago, Communion said:

 

I'm sorry but this is grossly a misappropriation of identity politics. 

 

Countless people who went through the Rwandan genocide, in addition to thousands of genocide scholars consider Israel's actions against Palestinians to be genocide.

 

Let alone - again - the metrics of population you were are not how genocide is defined, and if it were, this:

 

And this:

 

Tell very similar stories. 

By the UN definition, Hamas is a genocidal organisation. Its founding charter, published in 1988, explicitly commits it to obliterating Israel. Article 7 states that “The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them”. Article 13 rejects any compromise, or peace, until Israel is destroyed. Hamas fighters who burst into Israel on October 7th and killed more than 1,400 Israelis were carrying out the letter of their genocidal law.
 

Israel, by contrast, does not meet the test of genocide. There is little evidence that Israel, like Hamas, “intends” to destroy an ethnic group—the Palestinians. Israel does want to destroy Hamas, a militant group, and is prepared to inflict civilian casualties in doing so. And while some Israeli extremists might want to eradicate the Palestinians, that is not a government policy.

 

The total Palestinian casualties from conflicts and operations spanning from 1948 to 2023 (75 years) are estimated to be around 80,000 - 100,000. Meanwhile, the Darfur conflict, which lasted 3 years, led to significant civilian casualties and displacement with estimates of around 300,000 deaths. Yet, the 2005 UN Commission's report concluded that the Government of Sudan had not pursued a policy of genocide. The situation was characterized more by counter-insurgency warfare than by the intent to annihilate a specific group. 
 

The dip in the chart you posted reflects the displacement of Palestinians following the 1948 Arab-Israeli war, where, you guessed it, five Arab countries attempted to carry out genocide on the newly formed state of Israel.

 

 

 

[Jjang]

"five Arab countries attack poor newly formed Israel" 

 

meanwhile Israeli soldiers: 

 

Israeli historians: 

Quote

 

Morris re-examines the arguments he published years before regarding Jewish hopes to rid Jewish-controlled Palestine of Arabs. In "Revisiting the Palestinian exodus of 1948," Morris uses newly available documents from the Israeli archives to support his older arguments that "the refugee problem was caused by attacks by Jewish forces on Arab villages and towns and by the inhabitants' fear of such attacks, compounded by expulsions, atrocities, and rumors of atrocities--and by the crucial Israeli Cabinet decision in June 1948 to bar a refugee return" (p. 38). In fact, the newly obtained archival information shows that more Jewish atrocities had taken place than Morris had previously believed, such as those al-Husayniyya and Burayr. This chapter is particularly important because so much of Morris's earlier assessments of Israeli expulsions were viciously attacked and rebuked. The latest documents from the Israeli archives, however, seem to validate Morris's thesis that Jewish military actions were the primary cause of the Palestinian refugee problem up to the Israeli government's decision to disallow their return.

 

A prevailing myth in Israel and the United States is that Arabs joined forces, sending massive waves of holy warriors to destroy everything Jewish. The reality was that there never was a unified, collective, monolithic Arab army. Avi Shlaim points out many of the problems with that myth. Arab nations decided to go to war in Palestine for very different reasons and at very different times. There were actually two Arab blocs, the Hashemite and the non-Hashemite. Although Abdullah, King of Jordan, was considered to be titular head of the Arab army, in reality no Arab commander was willing to allow a commander of a differing nationality to command and control his troops.

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Jjang

[State of Grace.]

Israeli soldiers & politicians (from left to right, no exceptions): *openly & blatantly admitting to war crimes, ethnic cleansing, and genocide*

 

 

Miss Kassy: "There is little evidence that Israel intends to destroy Palestinians uwu! That's not what the govt wants!"

 

***** go to brunch 

Edited December 28, 2023 by State of Grace.

[State of Grace.]

On today's episode of the "most moral army in the world" 🥰🥰🥰🥰

 

 

[Mr. Mendes]

22 hours ago, Kassi said:

Israel was not in Gaza when Hamas invaded Israel on Oct 7th. 

 

If the same conflict has been raging on for 50+ years despite Israel’s superior military capabilities, what exactly does that tell you about Israel’s “genocidal” intent? Why an Iron Dome instead of an Iron Sword? Why summits, accords, and relinquishment of territory whenever peace has been an option?

 

You all literally invent ahistorical narratives that obfuscate the security concerns of Israeli citizens in service of a broader ideological agenda.

Oh so you just genuinely haven't got the faintest idea about what you're talking about, got it. I knew a lot of the ATRL zionists were supremely uneducated on this matter, but you've certainly proven to be the most persistent in continuing to spout off whatever information you run across in these propaganda campaigns as absolute fact. Truly, this is one of the most embarrassing things I've seen happen on this site, and that's really saying something. 

 

You don't have a bit of interest or curiosity in learning anything, you're just in here going full on Nazi and applauding a genocide. 

[Jjang]

39 minutes ago, State of Grace. said:

On today's episode of the "most moral army in the world" 🥰🥰🥰🥰

 

 

I mean he’s probably just “joking” but that doesn’t make it any better (or completely untrue). 

 

And he doesn’t believe he’s being heinously racist while spitting such words out of his mouth. 

 

There’s even a running popular joke between Israelis that one of the only few Arabic sentences they learned in the army is “wakef wakef wla batokhak” which translates to “stop stop or else I’ll shoot you” at illegal military checkpoints. They joke about stuff like this in their day to day lives and still continue to think they’re a beacon of freedom in the middle east. 

 

a deranged society that has become a victim of its own fascist military system. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Jjang

[Jjang]

Zionists' biggest enemy is common sense 

 

 

[Kassi]

7 hours ago, Jjang said:

"five Arab countries attack poor newly formed Israel" 

 

Israeli historians: 

Quote

 

Morris re-examines the arguments he published years before regarding Jewish hopes to rid Jewish-controlled Palestine of Arabs. In "Revisiting the Palestinian exodus of 1948," Morris uses newly available documents from the Israeli archives to support his older arguments that "the refugee problem was caused by attacks by Jewish forces on Arab villages and towns and by the inhabitants' fear of such attacks, compounded by expulsions, atrocities, and rumors of atrocities--and by the crucial Israeli Cabinet decision in June 1948 to bar a refugee return" (p. 38). In fact, the newly obtained archival information shows that more Jewish atrocities had taken place than Morris had previously believed, such as those al-Husayniyya and Burayr. This chapter is particularly important because so much of Morris's earlier assessments of Israeli expulsions were viciously attacked and rebuked. The latest documents from the Israeli archives, however, seem to validate Morris's thesis that Jewish military actions were the primary cause of the Palestinian refugee problem up to the Israeli government's decision to disallow their return.

 

A prevailing myth in Israel and the United States is that Arabs joined forces, sending massive waves of holy warriors to destroy everything Jewish. The reality was that there never was a unified, collective, monolithic Arab army. Avi Shlaim points out many of the problems with that myth. Arab nations decided to go to war in Palestine for very different reasons and at very different times. There were actually two Arab blocs, the Hashemite and the non-Hashemite. Although Abdullah, King of Jordan, was considered to be titular head of the Arab army, in reality no Arab commander was willing to allow a commander of a differing nationality to command and control his troops.

 

 

This isn't the rebuttal you think it is. You've just reinforced exactly what I wrote... which are that:

• The Nakba was a result of the war of annihilation against Israel, see Morris:

Quote

"As for the refugee situation, I still maintain that it was a requirement of the reality. Since the Palestinians tried and intended to destroy us, and their villages and towns served as bases in wartime, the winning side had to take over villages and expel populations. This situation was built into the nature of the war, even if people from the left have a hard time swallowing it. Massacres are always reprehensible, but the Jews behaved much better than other nations in similar circumstances.”

 

[...]

 

"The Zionist movement started out calling for the establishment of a Jewish state on all the territory of the Land of Israel, but from 1937 on, its leaders gradually abandoned the claim of 'it’s all mine’ and adhered to the ambition to form a sovereign Jewish state in part of the territory of the Land of Israel. Thus it changed its approach and consented to territorial compromise: that is, to the idea of two states for two peoples, a decision that derived in part from the logic of dividing the land between the two peoples living in it.”

 

“The Palestinian national movement has remained unchanged, throughout the different periods of the struggle, whether under the leadership of Hajj Amin al-Husayni or his successor, Yasser Arafat,” says Morris with near-palpable disgust. “It did not even change during the years of the Oslo process. In the end, both sides of the Palestinian movement the fundamentalists led by Hamas and the secular bloc led by Fatah are interested in Muslim rule over all of Palestine, with no Jewish state and no partition.”

 

https://www.haaretz.com/2012-09-20/ty-article/history-without-end-the-israel-arab-conflict/0000017f-f736-d47e-a37f-ff3e8c640000

• Five Arab countries attacked Israel. Whether or not they "officially" joined forces is a semantic argument that I didn't make. Clearly they weren't coordinated enough to take on small nation of 600,000 people, but the basic reality is that they tried anyway.

[Kassi]

4 hours ago, Mr. Mendes said:

Oh so you just genuinely haven't got the faintest idea about what you're talking about, got it. I knew a lot of the ATRL zionists were supremely uneducated on this matter, but you've certainly proven to be the most persistent in continuing to spout off whatever information you run across in these propaganda campaigns as absolute fact. Truly, this is one of the most embarrassing things I've seen happen on this site, and that's really saying something. 

 

You don't have a bit of interest or curiosity in learning anything, you're just in here going full on Nazi and applauding a genocide. 

I understand it quite in depth, as I've been studying it for almost a decade. It should have ended with the UN partition plan.

 

Here, I've summarized the essence of the conflict in 4 points for people like you who seem confused:

 

On 12/6/2023 at 12:12 AM, Kassi said:

Anyway, here's the cheat sheet to the curriculum:

1. Jews have no ancestral claim to the land of Palestine. Jewish presence in Palestine was driven by refuge-seeking diaspora Jewish populations of all ethnic backgrounds
2. The emergence of the state of Israel was a complex interplay of Zionist aspirations and Palestinian Arab nationalism

3. The two-state solution was a concession to the idea that an outside party, the British, could not obligate people to participate non-violently in plurinationalism...without becoming the Ottoman Empire.

4. The fact of Israel is not Zionism in and of itself; Zionism was causal but the existence of the state is not itself an ideology

Here's a more basic breakdown if that's too complicated:

 

World War -> Immigration Crisis -> Civil War

 

[SmittenCake]

 

 

 

[DAP]

Is that right? 

[State of Grace.]

10 minutes ago, DAP said:

Is that right? 

Is that acc run by Kassi

[ClashAndBurn]

 

[monologueNacafe]

why do y'all keep responding to that thing

[Mean Trees]

Coming here claiming you survived a genocide as a silencing tactic is very interesting. I would have never thought the resident moderates would expose themselves in such a way. 

[DAP]

1 hour ago, State of Grace. said:

Is that acc run by Kassi

I don’t think the Pelosi family gives him much time to do other things besides shining their shoes.