news Israel-Palestine Conflict 2023/ 2024 Mega Thread

[Nicholai]

14 minutes ago, KUNTPERFECTA said:

I’ve never thought I would hear of such actions again after the holocaust ended.

https://x.com/caitlyn_jenner/status/1711250476803686661?

 

Trying to excuse terror on the internet and real life is brutal and unacceptable. 

Not Caitlyn Jenner 

 

"Modern Day Nazism" is what Israel has been doing in Gaza for decades and what is doing now.

[Bears01]

1 minute ago, spree said:

I am not well versed in what's going on in this part of the world, but the images I'm seeing are absolutely horrific.  Babies getting their heads chopped off?  Downright evil.

You can blame Israel essentially enslaving the Palestinian people for generations and torturing them for why a terrorist group like Hamas has came to power. 
 

If youre not versed, you should at least see what the globalist MSM won’t show you, and that’s what the Israeli army and government has done daily to the Palestinian citizens because it’s just as horrible 

[Communion]

36 minutes ago, Harrier said:

If Indigenous Australians were widely calling for the expulsion of all settler descended people and immigrants, then yes, I would be comfortable labelling it a call for genocide or ethnic cleansing. That is what from the river to the sea means.

The issue is that this characterization is explicitly misleading. Jewish progressives largely don't co-sign the claim that the end of the Zionist project (the most harsh interpretation of the phrase) and the result of a singular secular, democratic state means the expulsion of the land's millions of Jewish residents. Let alone how many have resided themselves to the idea of somehow connecting Gaza and the West Bank is the best they can achieve.

 

https://forward.com/opinion/415250/from-the-river-to-the-sea-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-means/?mc_cid=84b5599fab&mc_eid=f874fe4ad4

 

Quote

That’s how the call for a free Palestine “from the river to the sea” gained traction in the 1960s. It was part of a larger call to see a secular democratic state established in all of historic Palestine. Palestinians hoped their state would be free from oppression of all sorts, from Israeli as well as from Arab regimes.

To be sure, a lot of Palestinians thought that in a single democratic state, many Jewish Israelis would voluntarily leave, like the French settlers in Algeria did when that country gained its independence from the French. Their belief stemmed from the anti-colonial context in which the Palestinian liberation movement arose.

That’s why, despite the occasional bout of overheated rhetoric from some leaders, there was no official Palestinian position calling for the forced removal of Jews from Palestine. This continued to be their position despite an Israeli media campaign following the 1967 war that claimed Palestinians wished to “throw Jews into the sea.”

Quote

While Palestinians viewed Zionists as akin to colonial settlers, Jews who were willing to live as equals with the Palestinians were welcome to stay. In his 1974 speech to the UN, Fatah leader and PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat declared, “when we speak of our common hopes for the Palestine of tomorrow we include in our perspective all Jews now living in Palestine who choose to live with us there in peace and without discrimination.”

Based on the polling from 2017, where Israeli views were considerably more 'timid' and progressive than the are now, the average right-wing identifying Israeli wasn't just just-as-likely to support expelling all Palestinians than your average Hamas supporter would likely support expelling all Israels, but measurably more likelier to feel so.

 

Your average Hamas supporter was actually just as likely to agree with the ideas of expulsion as self-avowed "moderate" Israeli conservatives desired the expulsion of all Palestinians.

 

That's why the reference to landback was mentioned, because it'd be dishonest to suggest people who say so call for the pushing of all North Americans or Australians into the sea - but are speaking of having the self-determination of statehood - and that this bad faith denigration towards Palestinians and those who share this struggle is harmful.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Communion

[Nicholai]

 

Reminder that not all jews are zionists

Edited October 12, 2023 by Nicholai

[Shelter]

Biden actually lying  

[SmittenCake]

2 hours ago, besaid said:

Debunked? It's well documented and in public all over the world. Dearborn MI had a huge support rally after the attack. Big DSA/Palestine rally in NYC and DC which many congresspeople had to distance themselves from. Disgusting displays everywhere so its anything but "debunked".

 

 

 

-

Biden confirms what Hamas supporters have been denying online for days - they killed and beheaded children and toddlers:

 

Me and @Gui Blackout reacted to this post at the same time

 

you gave it a trophy react, when its been confirmed that Biden didn't actually see children being beheaded. All of this is fake news. 

[Harrier]

23 minutes ago, Communion said:

The issue is that this characterization is explicitly misleadin. Not even Jewish progressive largely co-sign the claim that the end of the Zionist project (the most harsh interpretation of the phrase) and the result of a one-state secular, democratic state means the expulsion of the land's millions of Jewish residents. Let alone those who have resided themselves to the idea of somehow connecting Gaza and the West Bank is the best they can acheive.

 

https://forward.com/opinion/415250/from-the-river-to-the-sea-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-means/?mc_cid=84b5599fab&mc_eid=f874fe4ad4

 

Based on the polling from 2017, where Israeli views were considerably more 'timid' and progressive than the are now, the average right-wing identifying Israeli wasn't just just-as-likely to support expelling all Palestinians than your average Hamas supporter would likely support expelling all Israels, but measurably more likelier to feel so.

 

That's why the reference to landback was mentioned, because it'd be dishonest to suggest people who say so call for the pushing of all North Americans or Australians into the sea - but are speaking of having the self-determination of statehood - and that this bad faith denigration towards Palestinians and those who share this struggle is harmful.

Sis. The origin of the phrase is as a political slogan of the PLO in the 60s, at a time when the organisation was still seeking to establish an Arab run state and the elimination of Israel. The PLO rescinded its use of the slogan in the 1990s because it was deemed antitheical to the goal of peace/the two state solution. You and the article you link are merely attempting to whitewash the  phrase's obvious meaning which is the elimination of the Israeli state and establishment of Arab rule in the region.

 

Also, you are misreading your own graphs - they show that the highest support for expulsion is among Hamas supporters at 27%, with Israeli moderate right coming in second at 25%. Overall the graphs show no significant difference between the two sides in terms of support for expulsions and apartheid, unfortunately 

 

I do appreciate that many people using the phrase don't actually know what it means, or haven't thought through how it would be achieved. In Melbourne yesterday I witnessed a young lady with it on a sign, and through my friend's conversation with her it seemed like she didn't really mean it in that way. So I do get what you mean in that sense. But when Hamas uses it, are we going to pretend they want a free secular state for all 

[Cloröx]

15 minutes ago, Nicholai said:

 

Reminder that not all jews are zionists

We all knew that not all Jews supporting Zionisms but watch out the genocide apologists will come and accuse you for being anti-semitic 

[Shelter]

Am I allowed to post an insta link that has videos of Gaza? There is a press guy at the scenes and he keeps updating his stories. It’s pretty horrible at the hospital. Don’t know how anyone can say this is ok because Hamas attacked Israel. 

[FOCK]

29 minutes ago, Harrier said:

If Indigenous Australians were widely calling for the expulsion of all settler descended people and immigrants, then yes, I would be comfortable labelling it a call for genocide or ethnic cleansing. That is what from the river to the sea means.

 

That’s not what it means.

 

Do you happen to know what the 2 blue stripes on the Israeli flag represent? The Nile & the Euphrates.

 

Quote

In March 2023, the Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich used a map showing all of mandatory Palestine and Transjordan as an undivided unit in a speech in which he declared that the Palestinian people don't exist.

 
 

 

[Cloröx]

Are we surprise at this point? You know they are cooking something when there's no evidence/graphic come right after the claim

 

 

 

[Cloröx]

3 minutes ago, Shelter said:

Am I allowed to post an insta link that has videos of Gaza? There is a press guy at the scenes and he keeps updating his stories. It’s pretty horrible at the hospital. Don’t know how anyone can say this is ok because Hamas attacked Israel. 

Put spoiler, we need the world to see the war crimes committed by IDF 

[Harrier]

Also, to add to what I said, why use a phrase that is a core political slogan of Hamas if you don't mean it the same way they do, what do you expect people to think?  Make America Great Again! But no like not in the Trump way, in a leftist way!!

[airplane]

I wonder if Egypt has any documented proof of the “repeated warnings” it gave Israel  Let’s hope it comes out soon. 

[besaid]

I mean, Hamas is the elected leadership of the palestinians and "from the river to the sea" is their slogan and in their charter they've committed to wiping out the Jewish people...put 2 + 2 together please 

[ClashAndBurn]

6 minutes ago, Cloröx said:

Are we surprise at this point? You know they are cooking something when there's no evidence/graphic come right after the claim

 

 

 

When your own spokesperson and has to come out in public and expose you for being a ******* liar, LMFAO

 

Get this man out of office. What a joke

[Cloröx]

Zionist supporter be like "Hamas this, Hamas that"

 

Bare in mind, West Bank is not under Hamas yet IDF has killed at least 34 Palestinians children so far this year (as August 22)

 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/28/west-bank-spike-israeli-killings-palestinian-children

[ClashAndBurn]

4 minutes ago, Harrier said:

Also, to add to what I said, why use a phrase that is a core political slogan of Hamas if you don't mean it the same way they do, what do you expect people to think?  Make America Great Again! But no like not in the Trump way, in a leftist way!!

America was never great, and our history of advocacy for ethnic cleansing abroad and at home (Trail of Tears) is proof of that.

[Cloröx]

In the meantime, IDF and Jewish illegal settlers have started attacking Palestinians in West Bank, 27 deaths since Saturday 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-war-rages-israeli-forces-kill-27-palestinians-west-bank-2023-10-11/

[Cloröx]

Oh lord 

 

 

[jakeisphat]

 

[Shelter]

10 minutes ago, Cloröx said:

Put spoiler, we need the world to see the war crimes committed by IDF 

The videos are so sad 

 

Spoiler

Motaz_azaiza

Some of his vids are posted on news sites. 

[airplane]

Umm so the “raping women” narrative is also fake with no proof? How is Israel getting away with this wild ass propaganda is beyond me… but when you have entities like Twitter complying, anything is possible.

[JustLikeHoney]

9 hours ago, i spit on haters said:

Yeah, I never believed the claims of the decapitations of babies and was immediately weary of the claims. 

 

Now stop bringing it up in order to gain sympathy from people to be more pro-israel. Which is its main goal. To create a fabricated story so profoundly egregious that anyone who is on the fence about which "side" to take or even agnostic on the war, instantly moves someone to being anti-Palestine because in their mind, 'Palestinians are beheading babies.'

 

israel, however, actually murders kids in cold blood. They're doing it now, in fact. And commits back-to-back war crimes like the starvation of Palestinian kids. But zionists won't "cry" about that, of course. But yet they're moved by a manufactured story of Hamas killing multiple babies. And even then, it still doesn't compare to the deceased kids of Palestine. Again, the racism isn't even overt. 

Hamas is literally as we type firing rockets at Israel. They have not stopped. They fire from crowded areas and move to other crowded areas. So that when a airstrike happens from Israel to stop a Hamas rocket it hits a crowded area. Hamas is literally using Palestinians as shields against a defensive airstrike retaliation and here you are painting it like Israel is just launching attacks at crowded areas. 

 

Stop the half truths. 

 

That's why these graphs of Palestine injuries vs Israeli injuries should not be taken at face value. Israelis military don't use other Israelis as human shields. 

 

Edit: I don't know why this keeps getting down voted. It's common knowledge that Hamas fires rockets from schools and even stores rockets at schools. Just Google it. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by JustLikeHoney

[Scars]

The thread is moving at a fast pace, but earlier today, someone posted an Elon Musk-approved think-piece, which is being highly praised as a “nuanced” and “insightful” take on the matter, that is making rounds on Twitter. Imagine my shock when I finally get to read the entire thing and notice that the writer casually says something in the lines of “in a fair world, Israel would’ve probably been built on some land in The Americas, maybe even Alaska”. Damn, indigenous people everywhere just aren’t safe from the bullshit, are they? 

 

It’s terrifying to think that among zionists, even moderate liberal ones, a colonialist world-view is so intrinsic to their language that it can accidentally slip up even among those that wish to present themselves as thoughtful and considerate of systematically oppressed people. 

 

On the other hand, palestinian voices, and those that try to amplify them, are highly policed e.g. the entire discourse around “free Palestine from the river to the sea!” often pushed by the same ones that blindly endorse the “Israel's right to self-defense” and “Israel's right to self-determination” talking-points, which have been co-opted to justify ethno-nationalist tendencies and ethnic cleansing at this point. 

 

Despite the historical differences, to anyone that knows a bit of the history of South Africa and other southern african nations, the current pro-Israel discourse can feel a lot similar in some ways to pro-apartheid takes/conspiracies/lies that were highly popular at the time and still find it’s way to make round on Afriforum'd social media circles today:

 

• “FYI, Zulu people aren’t really an indigenous tribe to South Africa or something like that. They’ve killed many other ethnic groups that were here before, by the way. Some of my Dutch ancestors have been on this land long before you blacks!”
• “Yeah, I feel bad for Black South Africans, but there’s just too much racial animosity in the country right now. The damage has been done forever. If apartheid ended today, white South Africans would’ve been genocided! Two wrongs don't make a right, sorry!”
• “We can’t have the end of the apartheid if the other option is to have extremist groups like the SACP in power!”
• “Apartheid is over and there’s nothing I can do about that now? ok, but afrikaners have a right to self-determination and to preserve their culture and language. A full independent Volkstaat now!”

Revolting. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Scars