news Israel-Palestine Conflict 2023/ 2024 Mega Thread

[ClashAndBurn]

3 minutes ago, Kassi said:

I don't want prolonged occupation and violence.

 

That's why Hamas should surrender unconditionally to pave way for a wholly reconstituted government that prioritizes diplomatic recognition of and peaceful coexistence with Israel.

 

The extent of civilian casualties in the conflict with Hamas will largely depend on how swiftly Hamas engages in peace negotiations or decides to cease hostilities.

 

Following this phase, attention will shift to neutralizing the influence of the current Palestinian leadership, facilitating the reconstruction of Gaza, and weaving Palestinians more integrally into the regional political tapestry.

 

This approach mirrors the steps taken in the post-World War II reformation of Germany and Japan, where military de-escalation was followed by political reform and economic rebuilding to establish long-term stability.

I guess you haven’t been paying attention, but Netanyahu and the US Government have been collaborating on a plan to thin out the population of Gaza by “incentivizing” Arab countries and the EU to take in Palestinian refugees.

 

There is no plan for peaceful coexistence. The future is continued occupation and humanitarian collapse, and this plan as it has been floated has been met with bipartisan support in Capitol Hill.

 

 

Israel is NOT interested in a Marshall Plan - they want Gazans OUT. The Two-State Fantasy is a Biden delusion. Netanyahu very importantly does not want it - he wants to claim Gaza, Judea, and Samaria for Israeli Jews. Biden gave away all his leverage when he pledged “no red lines” for Israel.

[Kassi]

^And I hope that's not the case. The quicker Hamas surrenders, the quicker we can move on to fighting the final boss Netanyahu (see: Allied Alliance -> Cold War).

 

As it stands now, 500+ rockets launched into Israel per year is egregious. The situation would be 10x more dire without the Iron Dome in place. 

 

That is not a sustainable position and Oct 7th proved exactly why.

[Chemist]

5 hours ago, DAP said:

Is that right? 

 

God he is so awful. I'd prefer Trump at this point

[ClashAndBurn]

15 minutes ago, Chemist said:

God he is so awful. I'd prefer Trump at this point

Aside from the obnoxiousness, his administration is putting out so much harmful misinformation that even the IDF has to tell him to stop.  

 

Like...

 

 

 

[nooniebao]

 

[Harrier]

 

2 hours ago, Aristotle said:

IDF claims that 5,000 of 15,000 dead Palestinians are Hamas casualties. I mean that is better than for them to be civilians but I don't believe it in the slightest. They are lying through their teeth. 

I've read a fairly logical argument about this which is that IDF have reached these numbers by classifying all males of fighting age killed as Hamas casualties. This would put the numbers in line with Gaza Health Ministry. The reality, given tunnels etc, is probably lower than this figure.

 

In any case, even if these likely false numbers are true, 10k civillians including at least 6k children for 5k militants is a widly unacceptable tally and way beyond most other 'regular' conflicts in the 21st century, if such a thing can be said to exist

[nooniebao]

 

[Jjang]

4 hours ago, Kassi said:

^And I hope that's not the case. The quicker Hamas surrenders, the quicker we can move on to fighting the final boss Netanyahu (see: Allied Alliance -> Cold War).

the illegal military occupation of the West Bank (where Hamas does not rule) has been present and expanding for 60 years. That’s 40 years before either Hamas or Netanyahu came to political power. 

 

If Israel is so generous and kind why won’t they offer to withdraw their illegal settlements & nearly one million illegal settlers alike from Palestinian territories? Instead, they’re arming those wildly racist illegal settlers and giving them full impunity to take matters to their own hands. And I’m talking before the escalation of October 7th; the burning of Huwara village by illegal terrorist Jewish settlers happened in February and with full support of the Israeli army. 

 

Israel has a problem with Palestinians living freely in their own homeland. That’s the final boss. Not Netanyahu. 

 

[Letemtalk]

3 hours ago, Harrier said:

I've read a fairly logical argument about this which is that IDF have reached these numbers by classifying all males of fighting age killed as Hamas casualties. This would put the numbers in line with Gaza Health Ministry. The reality, given tunnels etc, is probably lower than this figure.

This is what the US does with their drone attacks. They claim no civilians are killed, when what it really means is that someone piloting a drone from their Army or CIA office in the US, looks at a blurry screen and decides there is no one in the street that looks like a woman and no male looks extremely short, so probably no young boys under 12. Then they fire their missiles.

 

In the internal report they say there were only military age males.

The Pentagon tells the media there were no civilians casualties and most of the US media prints the claim.

 

Israel attacks apartment buildings because just because they can and they tell the media there was a Hamas commander in one of the apartment buildings.

They list everyone that died as Hamas and most of the US media prints the claim.

[RihRihGirrrl]

4 hours ago, Harrier said:

 

I've read a fairly logical argument about this which is that IDF have reached these numbers by classifying all males of fighting age killed as Hamas casualties. This would put the numbers in line with Gaza Health Ministry. The reality, given tunnels etc, is probably lower than this figure.

 

In any case, even if these likely false numbers are true, 10k civillians including at least 6k children for 5k militants is a widly unacceptable tally and way beyond most other 'regular' conflicts in the 21st century, if such a thing can be said to exist

How is that logical? So all men who are older than 17-18 are automatically Hamas?? If this is the standard for their threshold then it's insane and ridiculous. That would mean that there are hundreds and thousands of Hamas members. And how would they have the data to know the age of these males they're dropping bombs on?

[Kitty Kat]

 

[Harrier]

2 hours ago, RihRihGirrrl said:

How is that logical? So all men who are older than 17-18 are automatically Hamas?? If this is the standard for their threshold then it's insane and ridiculous. That would mean that there are hundreds and thousands of Hamas members. And how would they have the data to know the age of these males they're dropping bombs on?

No I'm saying it is logical to say that Israel are making this faulty argument, sorry for the misunderstanding sis 

 

[RihRihGirrrl]

6 minutes ago, Harrier said:

No I'm saying it is logical to say that Israel are making this faulty argument, sorry for the misunderstanding sis 

 

Oh ok gotcha...I agree! 

[Kassi]

4 hours ago, Jjang said:

the illegal military occupation of the West Bank (where Hamas does not rule) has been present and expanding for 60 years. That’s 40 years before either Hamas or Netanyahu came to political power. 

 

If Israel is so generous and kind why won’t they offer to withdraw their illegal settlements & nearly one million illegal settlers alike from Palestinian territories? Instead, they’re arming those wildly racist illegal settlers and giving them full impunity to take matters to their own hands. And I’m talking before the escalation of October 7th; the burning of Huwara village by illegal terrorist Jewish settlers happened in February and with full support of the Israeli army. 

 

Israel has a problem with Palestinians living freely in their own homeland. That’s the final boss. Not Netanyahu. 

 

Israel offered to withdraw from the West Bank, which it had acquired in a defensive war prompted by its neighbors to once again destroy it, during the Camp David Summit in 2000. Palestine declined the deal.
 

In the final offers at Camp David, the offer was for 92% of the West Bank, all of Gaza, and a split of Jerusalem. 
 

The followup offer at the Taba Summit was for 94% of the West Bank and a 3% land swap to account for major settlement blocs, in addition to financial compensation for displaced civilians.

Arafat declined, openly supported the Second Intifada, Israel gave up on negotiations and Israelis elected Sharon. Palestine has a problem with Israel existing in peace.

[ZeroSuitBritney]

8 minutes ago, Kassi said:

In the final offers at Camp David, the offer was for 92% of the West Bank, all of Gaza, and a split of Jerusalem.

 

Palestine has a problem with Israel existing in peace.

The majority of Israel would not exist if ruthless evil tactics were not used to drive Palestinians out of their original villages and homes. The "Palestinians had one chance to accept what was offered to them peacefully and turned it down so it's their fault we are here now" being used after decades of terrorization and murder to get an offer that still wouldn't give the original land owners their right of return to half the land is absolutely wild. You sound chaotic. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by ZeroSuitBritney

[State of Grace.]

21 minutes ago, Kassi said:

 

Palestine has a problem with Israel existing 

Well yes. Because it shouldn't exist in the first place.

 

The mental gymnastics to justify the current situation are very transparent. "Palestinians refused to accept Israel's offers that had settlers illegally occupying Palestinian land and giving them some of it so they had it coming" is such a silly and low talking point, but it perfectly aligns  with your posting history. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by State of Grace.

[Kassi]

1 hour ago, ZeroSuitBritney said:

The majority of Israel would not exist if ruthless evil tactics were not used to drive Palestinians out of their original villages and homes. The "Palestinians had one chance to accept what was offered to them peacefully and turned it down so it's their fault we are here now" being used after decades of terrorization and murder to get an offer that still wouldn't give the original land owners their right of return to half the land is absolutely wild. You sound chaotic. 

There have many multiple peace offers.

 

For example, in 2005, Israel unilaterally disengaged from Gaza, withdrawing its military and dismantling all Israeli settlements.

 

And look at where we are now. That is chaotic.

[Communion]

9 minutes ago, Kassi said:

There have many multiple peace offers.

 

For example, in 2005, Israel unilaterally disengaged from Gaza, withdrawing its military and dismantling all Israeli settlements.

 

And look at where we are now. That is chaotic.

Disengaged from Gaza but forcefully remained in control of all water, gas and electrical resources?

 

You're genuinely a vlllain in this rhetoric. You know what you're saying is wrong. People like you get paid handsomely to be this wrong. 

[Kassi]

1 hour ago, State of Grace. said:

Well yes. Because it shouldn't exist in the first place.

 

The mental gymnastics to justify the current situation are very transparent. "Palestinians refused to accept Israel's offers that had settlers illegally occupying Palestinian land and giving them some of it so they had it coming" is such a silly and low talking point, but it perfectly aligns  with your posting history. 

No mental gymnastics needed. I'll even simply it further for you: 

 

World War -> Immigration Crisis -> Civil War

 

We can agree that Israel shouldn't exist, but likely for different reasons. My reasons are that Israel was outnumbered, outgunned, and abandoned in 1948.

 

Israel's ability to withstand overwhelming odds and survive is proof enough that it's earned its right to exist.

[State of Grace.]

6 minutes ago, Kassi said:

Israel's ability to withstand overwhelming odds and survive is proof enough that it's earned its right to exist.

"earned its right to exist" when it's an illegal state built on the backs, bones, and blood of genocided and ethnically cleansed Palestinians? 

 

Despicable.

[Kassi]

1 hour ago, Communion said:

Disengaged from Gaza but forcefully remained in control of all water, gas and electrical resources?

 

You're genuinely a villain in this rhetoric. You know what you're saying is wrong. People like you get paid handsomely to be this wrong. 

Speaking of villains, this was Hamas's charter when they were elected in January 2006, just 4 months after Israel completed disengagement in Gaza:

 

------------

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.

...

The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam.

It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine."

 

Source: https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

------------

 

I don't now know. Doesn't sound like really great neighbors to relinquish control of all water, gas, and electricity to. What do you think? 

[ZeroSuitBritney]

5 minutes ago, Kassi said:

There have many multiple peace offers.

 

For example, in 2005, Israel unilaterally disengaged from Gaza, withdrawing its military and dismantling all Israeli settlements.

 

And look at where we are now. That is chaotic.

Please read my post again. The only part of you countering is that there were more than one offer, which may be true. 
 

As expected, you are completely ignoring every other aspect of my post because it is historically accurate and verifiable. Essentially what you’re saying is as follows:

 

”Israel withdrew all its military and settlements in Gaza, so now it’s just for the millions of Gazan refugees who were unwillingly forced there due to the Zionist Israel’s invasion of their neighborhoods and land and mass murders of their people. Palestinians in Gaza should have accepted this withdrawal and live happily in this open air prison because Israel has now given them sole residency of it even though the majority of them, if not all, would much prefer to leave Gaza and go back to their neighborhoods which Israel terrorized them out of.”

 

You are quite deranged. Do you listen to yourself when you post or even think? Either you are uniformed about the creation of Israel and the annexation of both the West Bank and Gaza, or you are well aware and trying to justify it and put the blame on Palestinians for not accepting to live (with struggle) in their own homeland without any rights or self determination.

 

Mental illness on full display over here folks.

[Kassi]

13 minutes ago, State of Grace. said:

"earned its right to exist" when it's an illegal state built on the backs, bones, and blood of genocided and ethnically cleansed Palestinians? 

 

Despicable.

Ok.

 

Then you tell me, what do you think should have happened to the half a million Jewish immigrants to Palestine in 1948 after the British left?

[Kassi]

29 minutes ago, ZeroSuitBritney said:

Please read my post again. The only part of you countering is that there were more than one offer, which may be true. 
 

As expected, you are completely ignoring every other aspect of my post because it is historically accurate and verifiable. Essentially what you’re saying is as follows:

 

”Israel withdrew all its military and settlements in Gaza, so now it’s just for the millions of Gazan refugees who were unwillingly forced there due to the Zionist Israel’s invasion of their neighborhoods and land and mass murders of their people. Palestinians in Gaza should have accepted this withdrawal and live happily in this open air prison because Israel has now given them sole residency of it even though the majority of them, if not all, would much prefer to leave Gaza and go back to their neighborhoods which Israel terrorized them out of.”

 

You are quite deranged. Do you listen to yourself when you post or even think? Either you are uniformed about the creation of Israel and the annexation of both the West Bank and Gaza, or you are well aware and trying to justify it and put the blame on Palestinians for not accepting to live (with struggle) in their own homeland without any rights or self determination.

 

Mental illness on full display over here folks.

I addressed what I assumed was your core point: that Israel had not presented multiple peace offers.

 

If your core point is that there was a civil war that displaced civilians, then I've already pointed out that Arab leaders led Palestinians astray with their rejection of the UN Partition.

 

20 hours ago, Kassi said:

A plan that was predicated on the following demographic split:

 

Territory	Arab and other population	% Arab and other	Jewish population	% Jewish	Total population
Arab State	725,000	99%	10,000	1%	735,000
Jewish State	407,000	45%	498,000	55%	905,000
International	105,000	51%	100,000	49%	205,000
Total	1,237,000	67%	608,000	33%	1,845,000

 

Source: United Nations Special Committee of Palestine: 3 September 1947: CHAPTER 4: A COMMENTARY ON PARTITION

 

If the Arabs had accepted the plan, the tiny Jewish State would have been born with a 45% Arab minority. It's unlikely that the State would have survived as a Jewish one beyond its first elections. 

 

This would have taken us down a different historical path. But we'll never know what that would have looked like.

[Jjang]

8 hours ago, Kassi said:

Israel offered to withdraw from the West Bank, which it had acquired in a defensive war prompted by its neighbors to once again destroy it, during the Camp David Summit in 2000. Palestine declined the deal.
 

In the final offers at Camp David, the offer was for 92% of the West Bank, all of Gaza, and a split of Jerusalem. 
 

The followup offer at the Taba Summit was for 94% of the West Bank and a 3% land swap to account for major settlement blocs, in addition to financial compensation for displaced civilians.

Arafat declined, openly supported the Second Intifada, Israel gave up on negotiations and Israelis elected Sharon. Palestine has a problem with Israel existing in peace.

Why do Zionists keep reciting the same long-debunked talking points from StandWithUs.org 

 

This site was created as a response to that, so #StandWithUs have some argument updates that they need to do 

 

https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/war-of-1967-was-self-defense/

https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/palestinians-sabotaged-the-peace-process/

 

 

 

Palestinians have the right to return as per the international law. Israel is not doing anyone a favor by recognizing that fact and yet still at no time in history did it ever pursue any meaningful steps towards that. In fact, this resolution gets vetoed by the US and Israel every single time. And the few political figures that attempted to do anything about it throughout history, such as Folke Bernadotte - were brutally assassinated by Israel. 

 

Anyway,

There's something sick about Zionists begging us to coddle them and sympathize with the plea that they deserve to exist in dignity all while there's a real genocide taking place as we speak that threatens the actual existence of an entire group of people. You're not the victim. The world does not revolve around you. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Jjang