news Israel-Palestine Conflict 2023/ 2024 Mega Thread

[Delirious]

8 hours ago, Aristotle said:

It took them quite some time to evaluate it and yet you see experts proving or disproving the claim within 2 hours. 

And yet all the news media reported that Israel did it without officially confirming or denying. And it took the Hamas what, 1 or 2 hours to claim that Israel did it?

 

So much for 'propaganda'. Also I guarantee you, there are still plenty of people, even in this thread who still believe Israel did it.

 

6 hours ago, Aristotle said:

I was specifically talking about the video that you used, which was later discredited by NYT. My main point was that we cannot comprehend a random airstrike in the night sky with no context also being amateur ourselves. Just like I said that random anti-Ukrainian twitter account was pulling things out his ass when he claimed to "expose" that most of the dead Israelis in Oct 7th were non-civilians after the list of the names was revealed.  When he does not even have the full name list of IDF soldiers and the names of soldiers can match with that of civilians. 

 

I never dismissed the probability that the bombing was not caused by IDF.

 

Whatever evidence Human Rights Watch has found it's not from that misleading video. 

 

And that NYT article was later debunked by The Washington Post.

[Delirious]

4 hours ago, FOCK said:

No one is getting dragged down in your petty attempts to quarrel over one unsubstantiated hospital bombing. A clear ruse to distract from the facts that

 

- 22 hospitals were destroyed by Israel

- They’ve now kidnapped the medical staff that valiantly risked their lives to save the injured 

-  Shot at people in hospitals receiving critical care

- Denied babies on incubators access to life saving energy sources

- Forced the injured, sick & dying to evacuate to god knows where without regard as to how that was feasible with missing limbs, medical requirements etc & without a ceasefire in place to reduce travel risk, then bombing the alleged “safe passages” anyway 

 

You’re either sick and twisted or incredibly dumb & ignorant. Those are your 2 options - & that’s how most of the world views you every time you fix your mouth to regurgitate your transparent poison lies. 

 

And what did the Hamas do? Remind me again?

[Delirious]

8 hours ago, Communion said:

 

What the actual report says:

"We cannot make a conclusive finding ourselves and urge both sides to allow for on the ground investigation into the matter"

 

Why won't Israel allow independent NGOs into Gaza to monitor human rights abuses?

Then why did all the news publications retract their articles on it?

 

Why did all the news publications believe the Hamas words ASAP writing that Israel did i

 

And I agree! Independent NGOs should look into Israel's violations of human rights but guess who else should be checked? The Hamas.

[Communion]

4 minutes ago, Delirious said:

And I agree! Independent NGOs should look into Israel's violations of human rights but guess who else should be checked? The Hamas.

Who do you think is stopping them from entering Gaza? Israel or Hamas? Quickly. 

[Aethereal]

 

11 minutes ago, Delirious said:

And yet all the news media reported that Israel did it without officially confirming or denying. And it took the Hamas what, 1 or 2 hours to claim that Israel did it?

 

So much for 'propaganda'. Also I guarantee you, there are still plenty of people, even in this thread who still believe Israel did it.

 

And that NYT article was later debunked by The Washington Post.

Regardless it took quite some time and work to evaluate on it.  I remember when Israel showed one vague picture that looked like a rabbit hole at the Al Shifa hospital, some were claiming look at the "proof" of the tunnels the others were trying to disprove when there was nothing worthy of disproving.  

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Aristotle

[Delirious]

7 minutes ago, Communion said:

Who do you think is stopping them from entering Gaza? Israel or Hamas? Quickly. 

Both actually. 

[Wolf Alice]

God, I was just reading about the role of the US in enabling brutal regimes across the world to commit atrocities in the past and did not expect to see their best friend Israel also popping in for the Guatemalan genocide 
 

Quote

Israel, which had been supplying arms to Guatemala since 1974, continued its aid provisions during Ríos Montt's government. The cooperation did not just involve hardware, but also included providing intelligence and operational training, carried out both in Israel and in Guatemala. In 1982, Ríos Montt told ABC News that his success was due to the fact that "our soldiers were trained by Israelis." There was not much outcry in Israel at the time about its involvement in Guatemala, though the support for Ríos Montt was no secret. According to journalist Victor Perera, in 1985 at a cemetery in Chichicastenango, relatives of a man killed by the military told him that "in church they tell us that divine justice is on the side of the poor; but the fact of the matter is, it is the military who get the Israeli guns.

 

[FOCK]

21 minutes ago, Delirious said:

And what did the Hamas do? Remind me again?

Good to expose that your standard for how Israel should operate is comparable to that of a so called “terror organisation” & that innocent civilians should pay for it.
 

Quote

You’re either sick and twisted or incredibly dumb & ignorant. Those are your 2 options - & that’s how most of the world views you

Point proven. 

Delirious indeed. 

[Cloröx]

9 minutes ago, Communion said:

Who do you think is stopping them from entering Gaza? Israel or Hamas? Quickly. 

Palestine always welcome the independent investigation but who's always rejecting the idea. Some users being a clown as usual 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/17/middleeast/israel-alleged-hamas-tunnel-al-shifa-intl-hnk/index.html

 

[ClashAndBurn]

The HasbarAnon crowd still clinging on to the ONE hospital that was misreported on as though it justifies the thousands of civilian deaths that have occurred since then. Actually sick and depraved

[Cloröx]

7 minutes ago, Wolf Alice said:

God, I was just reading about the role of the US in enabling brutal regimes across the world to commit atrocities in the past and did not expect to see their best friend Israel also popping in for the Guatemalan genocide 
 

 

Guess who's behind the current genocide in Congo too? 

 

 

[Wolf Alice]

2 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

The HasbarAnon crowd still clinging on to the ONE hospital that was misreported on as though it justifies the thousands of civilian deaths that have occurred since then. Actually sick and depraved

I have to think these people are truly rotten inside to be justifying such things. No human loss - especially civilians that didn't signup for this **** is ever justifiable.

[Cloröx]

Who the hell arrested children and put them in jail to begin with? 

 

 

[Cloröx]

Be careful Biden, there will be Zionists extremist who will assassinate you just like they did on their Prime Minister, Yitzhak Rabin. 

 

 

[Cloröx]

 

 

[Communion]

Just now, Delirious said:

Both actually. 

 

This is why Zionists and Western Chauvinists are unserious. You truly can't make an acknowledgement of what's in front of your eyes because you're locked into some binarism where the crimes of Israel will always - somehow - be outweighed on a scale to some amorphous Islamist Otherism you see in Palestinians.

 

Israel has dropped more bombs on Northern Gaza in a month than the US dropped in the Middle East over the course of 5+ years and has fully taken over every area it claims holds Hamas HQ (only for it to not end up being Hamas HQ), and yet somehow it is Hamas stopping the UN from entering into Gaza?

 

[ClashAndBurn]

14 minutes ago, Cloröx said:

Be careful Biden, there will be Zionists extremist who will assassinate you just like they did on their Prime Minister, Yitzhak Rabin. 

 

 

When will Biden learn that the Israelis want security only for themselves, and not for Palestinians, whom they view as lower than fertilizer? He's either stupid or willfully blind.

[Wolf Alice]

3 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

When will Biden learn that the Israelis want security only for themselves, and not for Palestinians, whom they view as lower than fertilizer? He's either stupid or willfully blind.

Or just hoping to win back some support from his base again but doesn't actually want to do anything about it 

[Cloröx]

8 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

When will Biden learn that the Israelis want security only for themselves, and not for Palestinians, whom they view as lower than fertilizer? He's either stupid or willfully blind.

He's stupid, that's it

[Delirious]

54 minutes ago, FOCK said:

Good to expose that your standard for how Israel should operate is comparable to that of a so called “terror organisation” & that innocent civilians should pay for it.
 

Point proven. 

Delirious indeed. 

If other people view me as being terribly dumb or sick or twisted for having an unbiased view on this war, then so be it. I could literally care less. 

 

Anything is better than justifying the Hamas attacks or supporting them. 

 

24 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

This is why Zionists and Western Chauvinists are unserious. You truly can't make an acknowledgement of what's in front of your eyes because you're locked into some binarism where the crimes of Israel will always - somehow - be outweighed on a scale to some amorphous Islamist Otherism you see in Palestinians.

 

Israel has dropped more bombs on Northern Gaza in a month than the US dropped in the Middle East over the course of 5+ years and has fully taken over every area it claims holds Hamas HQ (only for it to not end up being Hamas HQ), and yet somehow it is Hamas stopping the UN from entering into Gaza?

 

Now remind me again what's happening in China Mr. @Communion who's so righteous all the time?

[Communion]

1 hour ago, Delirious said:

Now remind me again what's happening in China Mr. @Communion who's so righteous all the time?

Not to veer off topic, but you do realize the Israel-Palestine contradiction and emphasis on China or other "enemies" of the West is what.... radicalizes some anti-intervention Westerners against Israel in the first place, right? 

 

I think something like the recently linked issue of remodeling mosques (even though the ones in question were only updated with Arabic-style architecture in the 90s) for aesthetics is silly and a waste of a government's money. But I'm also then shocked when I see people frame something like the below as worthy of US military involvement:

 

........but not the complete destruction of nearly half of all residential homes in Northern Gaza:

 

In fact... we ARE sending military assistance to the area... but to help the people... doing the bombing?

 

And this is not to center my feelings as an American. If Hui Muslims, for example, wanted to keep the renovations that made the mosques look more like ones in Arab countries, and thus are not happy with the construction to restore them back to "looking more Chinese", I think they should have the right to protest those actions by their local, provincial and central governments. My discontent to America's response to such policies is not suggesting some authority over what people can do.

 

However, when it comes to America's response.. there's something deeply troubling. It's become incredibly hard as an American to trust one's leaders when these contradictions keep manifesting. Of course as a leftist I find political repression upsetting. My favorite gay Chinese influencer basically stopped posting because of local authorities pressuring her after speaking out about an anti-gay hate crime not getting enough of a government response (which was incredibly naive of Shenzhen authorities as she was probably the best influencer to counter anti-China sentiment in the West).

 

A world exists outside of the West's actions. China is an autonomous actor who makes its own decisions. Forced integration policies, for example, make me uncomfortable - whether it be France or China, both implementing similar policy agendas - and those within China deserve the right to fight for rights they want that they feel they don't have. 

 

What's distressing is *my government* advocating foreign policy that is contradicting. There's a disconnect when France is a huge ally yet the US is prepping for war with China despite the policies restricting religious exposure to children being largely similar, with some cases revealing France's laws are harsher. My trust in my country begins to fundamentally shatter when I see liberals proselytizing that China pushing for Mandarin literacy in every province is insidious, or that Uyghur youth moving to big cities in other provinces is actually not being done by free will, but then there's silence or denial when the Israeli government explicitly calls not for forced integration of Palestinians into Israel but literal forced expulsion of all Palestinians into either the Sinai or the bottom of the ocean, whatever one will do.

 

I'm not even one to want to compare because I think that is how you get incoherent anachronisms and I think Israel's actions can be criticized for their own cruelty, but that contradiction is disassociating and it'd be silly to pretend otherwise:

 

On 10/18/2023 at 10:41 AM, Communion said:

Imagine the world reaction if China bombed a mosque. Imagine how Biden would react if Beijing bombed a hospital in Xinjiang. Now compare it to the celebrations and defense provided when Israel does so and it is considered just how things have to be. 

 

Someone linking to that ASPI guy particularly exposed this contradiction. People who spent the last 3 years studying blurry footage of Uyghur tomato farmers in Xinjiang and taking rightful (!) criticisms over the excesses of the Chinese security state to make an argument of cultural genocide, which have their own merits, now are arguing that the HD images coming out of Palestine with hundreds and now thousands of people indiscriminately being killed somehow does not constitute literal genocide or ethnic cleansing. It is a moral failure of the Western world. If the US can speak out when our enemies commit cultural erasure, how then does it justify its silence when our allies are caught in the act of mass death and bombing?

On 11/4/2023 at 7:28 PM, Communion said:

I don't mention these to go off topic, but to reiterate the contradictions wrt Palestine.

• When Iran says they don't respect Kurdish separatism and argue the matters of a Kurdish state were settled by Sykes-Picot, the West says this is wrong.. but then turn around and co-sign Israel's claim Palestine never existed and it was British land?
• When Syria kills Kurdish fighters and Assad says he had to do this because Syria was also bombing ISIS, the West calls him a butcher... but then turn around and cheer on Bibi who calls for indiscriminate bombings to end Hamas?
• When China tells Uyghurs in Xinjiang that they have to study Mandarin in addition to their native tongue, the West will argue this is cultural genocide... but then say separate roads & check points don't make Israel an apartheid state?
• When Russia invades the borders of a sovereign Ukraine, and says there has never been a Ukrainian people, the West acknowledges this as genocidal language and even give billions to help defend Ukraine... but then send billions and billions in weapons to Israeli leaders who say their goal is to "eradicate every Palestinian from the land"? 

Even you now trying to use China's national politics as some retort to the tens of thousands of Palestinians indiscriminately murdered by Israel shows you don't actually seemingly have any real interest in China, the experiences of the people of China, nor Islam in China.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Communion

[Communion]

See also: *the minute-by-minute hoping and posting of any tweet by some users hoping to find some kind testimony of hostages taken by Hamas to have been hurt, beaten, or harmed in some way*

 

Meanwhile, literal complete and utter silence regarding the below:

@Ash12345 I think you have your answer on if Palestinians die when being illegally held hostage by the IDF. 

[ClashAndBurn]

When even the matriarch of an ultra-Zionist family is admitting that Gaza is on the verge of collapsing into famine, but neolibs are still parroting the “there can’t possibly be a genocide going on right now because there’s been population growth!” bs talking point

 

 

[Cloröx]

 

 

[Cloröx]