news Israel-Palestine Conflict 2023/ 2024 Mega Thread

[Cloröx]

4 hours ago, Harrier said:

Right, but I would also add to this that Arabs were also not the first people to settle in the Levant.

 

This isn't said to justify zionism or Nakba or any of that crap, only to undermine the politically problematic concept of Indigeniety in probably the region of the world with the most historical movement and change. People have to live together if we genuinely want peace, and any one ethnic group claiming sole historic ownership of the Levant will only undermine this necessity in my view.

Arabs, Jews were living in peace in Palestine before 1948 until Zionist came and polluted the land with their racist belief

[Cloröx]

 

 

[Letemtalk]

11 hours ago, Aristotle said:

Posting those ancient maps in times of apes;

 

 

 

You don't need to go back as far as "Out of Africa". Consider the Austronesian people who are descendants of a large-scale migration of people from the islands of Taiwan, occurring around 1500-1000 BCE. If people who left Israel almost 3000 years ago, can come back and claim it as home, why not the Austronesian people?

 

 

Should they all insist on their right of return to Taiwan and kick the Han Chinese out? After all, Han Chinese people have only been there a few hundred years, a much shorter time than Muslims/Arabs in Palestine.

 

Due to rising sea waters (climate change), over fishing and other environmental damage to the Pacific, life is becoming more difficult for the Austronesian people. Maybe they should return to their "home" in Taiwan.

 

Just like the people of Gaza, perhaps those Han Chinese in Taiwan can go to neighbouring countries?

[Letemtalk]

9 hours ago, Harrier said:

Right, but I would also add to this that Arabs were also not the first people to settle in the Levant.

 

This isn't said to justify zionism or Nakba or any of that crap, only to undermine the politically problematic concept of Indigeniety in probably the region of the world with the most historical movement and change. People have to live together if we genuinely want peace, and any one ethnic group claiming sole historic ownership of the Levant will only undermine this necessity in my view.

When you say Arabs, which Arabs do you mean?

 

Do you include the Nabatean people? Their civilization began several centuries BCE and was centred on Petra in present day Jordan, but also included cities like Avdat, in the Negev desert in what is now southern Israel.

 

 

Or do you mean modern Palestinians, a group that includes many Arabs who intermarried with other ethnic groups that already existed in Palestine and had never left. Many of those people, some of Canaanite origins had converted to Christianity, and later on Islam and started speaking Arabic.

 

All of those non-Jewish people now make up the Palestinian population, not just the Arabs who arrived in the Muslim expansion in the 7th century. When we say the Arabs were not the first people to settle in the Levant you are right, but some of the descendants of those early people exist in the Palestinian population.

 

Ivanka Trump could arrive in the West Bank tomorrow and have more rights than any of them.

 

But I think we are mostly in agreement, there needs to be a one state solution or a two state solution. Right now there is a one state reality between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean, where one state controls everything, but politicians like to pretend that they are working towards a two state solution.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Letemtalk

[Harrier]

1 hour ago, Letemtalk said:

When you say Arabs, which Arabs do you mean?

 

Do you include the Nabatean people? Their civilization began several centuries BCE and was centred on Petra in present day Jordan, but also included cities like Avdat, in the Negev desert in what is now southern Israel.

 

 

Or do you mean modern Palestinians, a group that includes many Arabs who intermarried with other ethnic groups that already existed in Palestine and had never left. Many of those people, some of Canaanite origins had converted to Christianity, and later on Islam and started speaking Arabic.

 

All of those non-Jewish people now make up the Palestinian population, not just the Arabs who arrived in the Muslim expansion in the 7th century. When we say the Arabs were not the first people to settle in the Levant you are right, but some of the descendants of those early people exist in the Palestinian population.

 

Ivanka Trump could arrive in the West Bank tomorrow and have more rights than any of them.

 

But I think we are mostly in agreement, there needs to be a one state solution or a two state solution. Right now there is a one state reality between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean, where one state controls everything, but politicians like to pretend that they are working towards a two state solution.

I don't disagree with any of this - your point about Ivanka Trump is a great way of showing the inherent ridiculousness and injustice of the state of Israel's policies. My point is to destablise simplistic ethnonationlist or religious narratives that stand in direct opposition to a peaceful one (or two) state solution. Narratives such as 'Palestine is Arab' or the close association of the Palestinian struggle with political Islam, while obviously not having any actual power right now given the dominance of Israel and Zionism, are still in my view obstacles to peace. Leftist factions would do well to clearly differentiate their laudible secular goals from these other, in my view, right wing projects.

 

On the indigeneity point, my argument is that most people in the region have complex ancestry and are going to have a difficult time claiming they are the sole historic inheritors of people who have been living in the region for thousands of years, in the way that say Indigenous Australians or Americans can. Where do we draw the line on how far back we go when deciding on indigeniety? Is any decision on this not in fact, just arbitrary and done for political purposes?

 

If you are someone who was born and raised in Palestine, does it matter if you have grandparents from Jerusalem or grandparents from Morocco? We should just seek solutions that offer justice and fairness for all people regardless of their histroric religious or ethnic background. This is what liberals and leftists say in the West in regards to immigrants and we should maintain that same idea when talking about Palestine.

[FlyPirate]

 

 

if i speak…. if I SPEAK… 

[DAP]

[ZeroSuitBritney]

Huge turnout yesterday to the No To APEC Rally/March, which included many different causes that are effected by the leaders of this convention (including Biden), including another Palestine march here in SF! It will go on all week until they leave.

 

There was this really beautiful couple that JUST got married and came STRAIGHT to the march to walk with the Palestinian group. So lovely 

[ebaby]

Noah Schnapp is a loser 

next

[ClashAndBurn]

I’m sure the people who love to weaponize talking points related to Xinjiang (which the West does nothing about) will have nothing to say about this

 

 

[GhostBox]

14 hours ago, ebaby said:

 

 

from our queer march in nyc today 

💀

[GhostBox]

2 hours ago, FlyPirate said:

 

 

if i speak…. if I SPEAK… 

Hamas is a terrorist organization. 
 

you can complain about the other statements but this one isn’t even debatable. 🤷

[More Than A Melody]

21 minutes ago, GhostBox said:

💀

Why are you still here?????

[More Than A Melody]

20 minutes ago, GhostBox said:

Hamas is a terrorist organization. 
 

you can complain about the other statements but this one isn’t even debatable. 🤷

It is. Most of the world does not consider them a terrorist organization. My country doesn't. So now, what?

[GhostBox]

3 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said:

It is. Most of the world does not consider them a terrorist organization. My country doesn't. So now, what?

But they are literally a terrorists organization no matter if your country “considers” them one. 💀 

Edited November 13, 2023 by GhostBox

[ClashAndBurn]

27 minutes ago, GhostBox said:

Hamas is a terrorist organization. 
 

you can complain about the other statements but this one isn’t even debatable. 🤷

The United States military is a terrorist organization and Joe Biden is Terrorist-in-Chief.

 

You can complain about the other statements, but this one isn't even debatable.  

[GhostBox]

Just now, ClashAndBurn said:

The United States military is a terrorist organization and Joe Biden is Terrorist-in-Chief.

 

You can complain about the other statements, but this one isn't even debatable.  

Cool. 
But Hamas is still a terrorist organization 🤷

 

[More Than A Melody]

13 minutes ago, GhostBox said:

But they are literally a terrorists organization no matter if your country “considers” them one. 💀 

Most of the world* doesn't consider them one. So, they're not. The US and Israel do not control reality.

[FlyPirate]

1 hour ago, GhostBox said:

Hamas is a terrorist organization. 
 

you can complain about the other statements but this one isn’t even debatable. 🤷

You should do justice to your nickname and be a ghost in this thread and keep downvoting every pro-Palestine post like you been doing

[Embustera]

45 minutes ago, GhostBox said:

But they are literally a terrorists organization no matter if your country “considers” them one. 💀 

And Israel is a terrorist state. 

[Aethereal]

Al-Ahli is the last hospital left in Gaza now. 

 

 

 

[State of Grace.]

The Biden sheep still trying it. Drop the mask already. We're tired. 

[LookinAssHittas]

Y’all… please read the caption. 
 

https://www.instagram.com/p/Czj6_cnvQMv/

 

They really think their genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza is some sort of win for queer people. I really don’t know what to say anymore. Worms for brains.

[Aethereal]

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/italy-deploys-hospital-ship-off-gaza-coast-for-emergency-aid/3047738

 

Italy deploys hospital ship off Gaza coast for emergency aid.

[DAP]

12 minutes ago, LookinAssHittas said:

Y’all… please read the caption. 
 

https://www.instagram.com/p/Czj6_cnvQMv/

 

They really think their genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza is some sort of win for queer people. I really don’t know what to say anymore. Worms for brains.