news Israel-Palestine Conflict 2023/ 2024 Mega Thread

[Nova_23]

47 minutes ago, DAP said:

 

Hope the whole country riots till that monster is thrown in jail 

[RihRihGirrrl]

8 minutes ago, VOSS said:

 

I don't know anything about the opposition....is he right or left of Netanyahu?

[Scars]

15 hours ago, DAP said:

Funny that South Africa was mentioned because even as a nominally reformed state, the vestiges of apartheid are real and exist through lines of class/race and a justice system that rarely held perpetrators accountable to their actions (and in fact were given amnesty)

Exactly. Sorry for the long essay, but chiming in here, that’s an important point to remember because people often discuss post-1994 South Africa as a ‘rainbow nation’ for Black people, many right-wingers go as far as suggesting that there’s a ‘white genocide’ happening there under an alleged ‘black rule’. To this day, White South Africans, which only make up 7.9% of the population, own over 70% of the farming land in the country. Despite the so-called ‘afrikaner slums’ being highly publicized in right-wing media circles, less than 1% of white people are actually living in poverty, a reality faced by nearly 70% of Black South Africans and 40% of Coloured South Africans.

 

Affirmative actions, such as BEE, are often under international scrutiny, and an extensive land reform still didn’t take place in South Africa. In fact, every time conversations about land redistribution, with or without compensation, flourish in local politics, westerner political figures make sure to insert themselves in the conversation to be in a position of “warning” South Africans that it’d be a “disastrous move” for the country.

 

It goes deeper than political amnesty, the transition from the apartheid regime to the current democracy was orchestrated in a way that purposefully didn’t tackle the generational hoard of wealth as a result of colonialism, which under a capitalist economic system, is the primary tool to maintain a hegemony with ties to systematic racism.

 

Armed anti-apartheid resistance forces voiced their concerns over this during the negotiation process that preceded 1994. Yes, I’m aware the existence of armed groups is a hard pill for some to swallow because it doesn’t align with the westernized idea of resistance coming from some of you, but those groups, which were often communists, were crucial to the fight for liberation in South Africa. To the members that randomly quoted a week-old post of mine because it is weirdly making rounds in the DMs of zionist ATRLers, no, I won’t white-wash the history of former colonies in the Global South and it’s similarities to current events because some parts of it makes your reactionary friends uncomfortable. 

 

Anyway, I wholeheartedly understand the feeling of urgency when it comes to to discussions around the possibilities for the liberation of Palestinians, but this urgency can’t leave out of the equation all the nuances of oppression inflicted by the Israel regime, which is something urged by many Palestinian scholars themselves. We must be careful with languages disguised as “a compromise for a good cause” that don’t fully tackle the Palestinian struggle and intend to purposefully maintain mechanisms of oppression in full operation.

 

Considering that Hamas was actually open to discussions about a two-state solution that respected the 1967 borders at one point, but the fact that the thought of Israel, as an ethno-state and now fascist regime, negotiating about a two-state solution, let alone within the 1967 borders, seems impossible, reinforces the idea of many Palestinians that there’s no productive conversations to be had with such a reactionary force other than the call for the end of the regime.

 

Important to note that the end of Israel isn’t necessarily the call for mass expulsion of today's Jewish Israelis. Taking white settler populations in Southern Africa as an example, White Supremacy historically conflates the tackling of neo-colonialism with the antagonizing of the existence of white communities. It is politically beneficial for the status quo to maintain those groups perpetually believing that their identity as a group is only possible to exist as a part of their experiences of settlers in a colonialist regime and any idea of dismantling that social hierarchy is a direct attack on them.

 

This is not different from what we see coming from the experience of many Jewish Israeli Settlers. See how the “Fight for your right to be White!” propaganda used by pro-white-rule parties, that was posted earlier by @Communion, doesn’t feel much different to the “Anti-zionism is inherently Anti-semitism!” rhetoric. For one, I admit that the dismantlement of that rhetoric is one of the greatest challenges for the conversation about the Palestinian struggle, and other disenfranchised groups, as far as Western discourse goes and the possibility of an exponential rise of awareness on the subject to make it possible to largely mobilize western citizens to question the role played by their respective governments in the ongoing ethnic cleansing and genocide.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Scars

[FlyPirate]

1 hour ago, Anthinos said:

The Pro-Palestine protests in Germany have really opened my eyes. I'm honestly scared. The political left is clearly blind when it comes to Islamism and many leftists genuinely hate the West. I would never vote for a right wing party but I don't feel comfortable voting for the left either. At least in Germany every party supports Israel but still. We need to have an open discussion about certain topics. The left needs to stop suger-coating Islamism. We literally have people here wanting a caliphate. This war is bigger than just Israel/Palestine and I'm afraid it's going to help the far right in Europe.

your racist ass have nothing to worry about, the German left decided to be ONCE AGAIN on the wrong side of history and be part of ANOTHER genocide 

[State of Grace.]

Being SCARED of "Islamism" and the "far-right in Europe" while living in GERMANY where "every party supports Israel" and ignoring the active ethnic cleansing/genocide of Palestinians is just peak white gay behavior. I'm cackling. Hope those protests keep haunting your dreams <3

[Nova_23]

 

 

[Communion]

2 hours ago, Anthinos said:

The Pro-Palestine protests in Germany have really opened my eyes. I'm honestly scared. The political left is clearly blind when it comes to Islamism and many leftists genuinely hate the West. I would never vote for a right wing party but I don't feel comfortable voting for the left either. At least in Germany every party supports Israel but still. We need to have an open discussion about certain topics. The left needs to stop suger-coating Islamism. We literally have people here wanting a caliphate. This war is bigger than just Israel/Palestine and I'm afraid it's going to help the far right in Europe.

So you're afraid of Muslims and want them barred from entering the land of your ancestors to preserve your historical cultural identity as a European... but also think your holy homeland via religious prophecy is in a land of... countless Muslims? 

[FOCK]

 

Psychopaths & terrorists. 

[FOCK]

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by FOCK

[State of Grace.]

Terrorists doing terrorist things

 

 

[ClashAndBurn]

22 minutes ago, FOCK said:

 

Psychopaths & terrorists. 

 

7 minutes ago, State of Grace. said:

Terrorists doing terrorist things

 

 

No red lines, Jack. Did I stutter?

 

-Joe Biden, probably

[Revolution]

5 hours ago, Communion said:

This is where you can tell none of this is actually about morals but geopolitical strategy and wishcasting.

Actually, this become obvious when Leftists, after years of supporting genocide against Kurds, Uyghurs, Taiwanese and Ukrainians, decided to co-opt the Palestinian cause for their own personal benefit. 

[nooniebao]

 

[State of Grace.]

1 hour ago, Nova_23 said:

 

 

Oh it's bad for him. Huuge crowd  

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by State of Grace.

[FOCK]

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by FOCK

[réveuse]

 

🙄

[réveuse]

4 hours ago, Anthinos said:

The Pro-Palestine protests in Germany have really opened my eyes. I'm honestly scared. The political left is clearly blind when it comes to Islamism and many leftists genuinely hate the West. I would never vote for a right wing party but I don't feel comfortable voting for the left either. At least in Germany every party supports Israel but still. We need to have an open discussion about certain topics. The left needs to stop suger-coating Islamism. We literally have people here wanting a caliphate. This war is bigger than just Israel/Palestine and I'm afraid it's going to help the far right in Europe.

Oh? So you're Islamophobic? Got it! Supporting Palestine is not far-right, you islamophbe. Also, many leftists do not have favorable opinions about western countries for a reason. They were the main perpetrators of colonialism and exploited (still exploiting, by the way!) Middle Eastern, African, Asian, and other countries that are not in the white, first-world, global north country club.

 

I also remember you posting your support for Israel because they are "a country for women, for LGBT+ people, for everyone." which isn't true since Israel bombs women and children and blackmails queer Palestinians.

 

 

[State of Grace.]

24 minutes ago, réveuse said:

 

🙄

Him and Selena Gomez are having a "how can I make this genocide about me" off

 

An absolute clown.

[réveuse]

6 minutes ago, State of Grace. said:

Him and Selena Gomez are having a "how can I make this genocide about me" off

 

An absolute clown.

Exactly!! It's scary and disgusting he said this.

 

 

 

PS: More people need to know about Selena Gomez's shady history.

Edited November 4, 2023 by réveuse

[ClashAndBurn]

3 minutes ago, State of Grace. said:

Him and Selena Gomez are having a "how can I make this genocide about me" off

 

An absolute clown.

Cross-posting from the Ukraine thread here, but…

 

 

The writing is on the wall and he knows it. 

[Nova_23]

 

[airplane]

something needs to be done about zelensky 

[réveuse]

6 minutes ago, Nova_23 said:

 

 Love this!

[Shelter]

22 minutes ago, Nova_23 said:

 

 

[Communion]

1 hour ago, Revolution said:

Actually, this become obvious when Leftists, after years of supporting genocide against Kurds, Uyghurs and Ukrainians, decided to co-opt the Palestinian cause for their own personal benefit. 

I genuinely think you believe this, so this moment forces me to ask...why is the genocide of Palestinians just a "cause"? You have never used the word for Palestinians. The only time you've used the word is in regards to Kurds and, for some reason, saying Biden should be credited for ending KSA's genocide on Yemenis that America supported??

 

Some of you need to realize this contempt for leftists as "anti-Western", whether they're in the West or the Global South (who are often erased), isn't some clever positioning people can't figure out the intentions of. I rather people just be up front about what drives their views.

 

So often the rhetoric is that leftists support authoritarian regimes, driven by a reactionary hatred of the US.. but we see the opposite here. We see people siding against the Palestinian people, deciding they're expendable, because their own causes ally them with the US.

 

I don't mention these to go off topic, but to reiterate the contradictions wrt Palestine.

• When Iran says they don't respect Kurdish separatism and argue the matters of a Kurdish state were settled by Sykes-Picot, the West says this is wrong.. but then turn around and co-sign Israel's claim Palestine never existed?
• When Syria kills Kurdish fighters and Assad says he had to do this because Syria was also bombing ISIS, the West calls him a butcher... but then turn around and cheer on Bibi who calls for indiscriminate bombings to end Hamas?
• When China tells Uyghurs in Xinjiang that they have to study Mandarin in addition to their native tongue, the West will argue this is cultural genocide... but then say separate roads & check points don't make Israel an apartheid state?
• When Russia invades the borders of a sovereign Ukraine, and says there has never been a Ukrainian people, the West acknowledges this as genocidal language and even give billions to help defend Ukraine... but then send billions and billions in weapons to Israeli leaders who say their goal is to "eradicate every Palestinian from the land"? 

This isn't to express any view on any of the above, but to point out the contradictions. The Israel-Palestinian contradiction drives much of this shift in perception of the US, which apparently angers the "rules based order" coalition - whether it be globe emojis, neo-cons, NATO/European chauvinists, conservative ex-Muslims, members of diasporas of countries deemed enemies of the US, etc. 

 

No one should walk away from these contradictions thinking "oh so the West is also lying about Ukraine?", for example, but they will walk away thinking: "You know wrong from right because you know it's wrong when Ukrainians die. So why is it fine for Palestinians to die? Why have Palestinians been abandoned?" You can't scold people out of seeing these contradictions for what they are - contempt for Palestinian life. If you want people to believe in the alleged moral superiority of the Western world, Western values can't endorse dead Palestinians.

 

I need you to know people are not dumb. People notice when rhetoric shifts from unapologetic support for Israel following 10/07 to trying to discredit Palestinian liberation now that the carpet bombings by Bibi and his ghouls have become too barbaric in too short of a time. 

 

Your accusations aren't consistent. In one breath, Western leftists *only* care about Palestine due to lacking knowledge on other issues, but then somehow Western leftists are worldly enough to "co-opt" Palestine to silence other causes they allegedly hate?

 

As a millennial leftist, Palestine is the lens I will often judge political contradictions in the US through, because it is a defining part of American politics in the time I've been alive. If your only response is not to care about Palestinians but accuse American leftists upset over their taxes funding genocide as """hating the West""" (), the burden for your anger falls on your own moral failings.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Communion