news Israel-Palestine Conflict 2023/ 2024 Mega Thread

[DAP]

 

 

[More Than A Melody]

17 minutes ago, Harrier said:

1. The Israeli account in question was a random Israeli influencer with no connection to higher government, reacting in real time to the news just like anyone else

 

SOURCE: The Jerusalem Post where he... works....

 

This alone should be enough. "A random influencer" he is not.

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2. Israel has been asking every hospital to evacuate for days in anticipation of its ground invasion. Everywhere in Gaza city is receiving evacuation notices every day. This is not evidence of intention to attack imminently.

And they have bombed several of them. They also warned the surroundings of this specific hospital right before they bombed it.

 

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3. The damage on the ground is inconsistent with that of a military aristrike. It is consistent with a small impact followed by a large fire. This fact is widely agreed upon by independent observers, and is clear independent of any IDF propaganda attempts if you look at the Palestinian photos/footage of the ground yourself.

This is false. This is an independent investigation by Channel 4 using eye witnesses and it says the exact opposite of what you're claiming, including explaining that it could be an airstrike but not with a missile.

 

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4. Videos from Al Jazeera and others show a possible interception or failure of a missile originating from Gaza and then an impact. Inconclusive due to darkness of footage.

This has been debunked, the video I linked above explains why.

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5. The IDF call does appear to be dubious, however the other proof it provided has yet to be conclusively debunked in any way - do not pretend that it has.

 

They literally edited a tweet to remove a video they claimed was proof. That and the call, and the Prime Minister aide, and their constant change of target (it was Hamas, it was Islamist Jihadist) should tell you enough.

 

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All of this together does not provide a conclusive picture. It may be that Israel is responsible. The dubiousness of the call leans me to hypothesise that the attack may have been some kind of missile incterception mishap that the IDF are trying to cover up as a launch failure. But I DONT KNOW and I dont pretend to.

Israel bombed the hospital and 471 people have died because of it, a lot of them children.

 

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My point is that you and others are it choosing to believe one narrative because it aligns with your worldview and emotionality, not because of the facts. That is dangerous. It is a mistake I also made in the initial hours after the hospital new, so I understand it. But all we need to do better.

I actually did the research. You clearly did not. As evidenced by... well, all of the above.

 

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I don't care if I get downvoted because this needs to be said. Blindly believing anything in the fog of war, including potential misinformation, is part of how these conflicts continue to escalate. We need calm, cool heads and a ceasefire, for the sake of Palestinian lives.

Opening your mouth without lifting a finger to do proper research in the fog of war is morally reprehensible and you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Communion]

1 hour ago, nooniebao said:

 

 

 

 

 

Someone literally "laugh" reacting to the only Palestinian in Congress crying about the reality that her grandmother lives in the West Bank and Israeli leaders are calling for her death?? @GhostBox What is wrong with you? What is funny about Rashida in this clip? What do you find amusing about a woman crying about genocide? 

 

The empire and pro-war American establishment want people to think time and history is on Israel's side, but not even two weeks out and polls have already begun to radically shift to where they were just a month prior in the face of Israel's war crimes and human rights violations:

 

 

 

[DAP]

Not wasting my time with his speech but going by the summaries in tweets it was exactly how I imagined

 

[bunnyeyes]

They’re trying to set up another Iraq war and people aren’t falling for it so they’re scrambling. 

[Harrier]

13 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said:

SOURCE: The Jerusalem Post where he... works....

 

This alone should be enough. "A random influencer" he is not.

And they have bombed several of them. They also warned the surroundings of this specific hospital right before they bombed it.

 

This is false. This is an independent investigation by Channel 4 using eye witnesses and it says the exact opposite of what you're claiming, including explaining that it could be an airstrike but not with a missile.

 

This has been debunked, the video I linked above explains why.

They literally edited a tweet to remove a video they claimed was proof. That and the call, and the Prime Minister aide, and their constant change of target (it was Hamas, it was Islamist Jihadist) should tell you enough.

 

Israel bombed the hospital and 471 people have died because of it, a lot of them children.

 

I actually did the research. You clearly did not. As evidenced by... well, all of the above.

 

Opening your mouth without lifting a finger to do proper research in the fog of war is morally reprehensible and you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

I have seen everything you have posted and none of it provides a conclusive picture. The channel 4 investigation itself says it isn't conclusive. What you posted about the influencer proves my point, not yours - the man has a patreon and a youtube channel for god's sake. He was reacting to the news in real time, in his own warped and disgusting way. I won't push the issue any further in here since you guys are so widly hostile to any information or perspective that might go against your stubborn narratives. You are clearly upset (very understandable!), but there is no need to falsely claim I have not done the research when I have.

 

I am not arguing for the IDF side, I am arguing for patience and waiting for the facts, in the interests of descalation in the region. This incident has caused a massive spike in tensions. I want a ceasefire and I want the conflict to not spread.

 

Ceasfire now. Descalation now. That is what matters and I hope you can agree.

[Gaia]

33 minutes ago, Harrier said:

1. The Israeli account in question was a random Israeli influencer with no connection to higher government, reacting in real time to the news just like anyone else

2. Israel has been asking every hospital to evacuate for days in anticipation of its ground invasion. Everywhere in Gaza city is receiving evacuation notices every day. This is not evidence of intention to attack imminently.

3. The damage on the ground is inconsistent with that of a military aristrike. It is consistent with a small impact followed by a large fire. This fact is widely agreed upon by independent observers, and is clear independent of any IDF propaganda attempts if you look at the Palestinian photos/footage of the ground yourself.

4. Videos from Al Jazeera and others show a possible interception or failure of a missile originating from Gaza and then an impact. Inconclusive due to darkness of footage.

5. The IDF call does appear to be dubious, however the other proof it provided has yet to be conclusively debunked in any way - do not pretend that it has.

 

All of this together does not provide a conclusive picture. It may be that Israel is responsible. The dubiousness of the call leans me to hypothesise that the attack may have been some kind of missile incterception mishap that the IDF are trying to cover up as a launch failure. But I DONT KNOW and I dont pretend to.

 

My point is that you and others are it choosing to believe one narrative because it aligns with your worldview and emotionality, not because of the facts. That is dangerous. It is a mistake I also made in the initial hours after the hospital new, so I understand it. But all we need to do better.

 

I don't care if I get downvoted because this needs to be said. Blindly believing anything in the fog of war, including potential misinformation, is part of how these conflicts continue to escalate. We need calm, cool heads and a ceasefire, for the sake of Palestinian lives.

 

Expecting objectivity is naive at this point. Anyone who dares question the legitimacy of information posted without proof or evidence is automatically "pro-israel" and "supports genocide"

 

And if you dare call them out on it then their narcissistic ring leader quotes you with some irrelevant and asinine "drag" laced with arrogance and condescension. 

 

[More Than A Melody]

LMFAO you can't make this sh*t up.

  

49 minutes ago, Harrier said:

1. The Israeli account in question was a random Israeli influencer with no connection to higher government, reacting in real time to the news just like anyone else

 

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Naftali has been working for the former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu as part of his digital team for the past 3 years. 

Just now, Harrier said:

What you posted about the influencer proves my point, not yours

No wonder you're staunchingly defending Israel (and that's exactly what you're doing), you must drink the same water they do, thinking you can get away with blatant lies and no one will call you out. It'd be so funny if thousands of children weren't dying.

[Nova_23]

 

[Gaia]

And it feels like this shouldn't need to be explained but:

 

Israel has factually done a LOT of things considered war crimes. No one is denying this fact (at least from what I've read).

 

That does NOT justify spreading misinformation and falsified news as "facts" when you can't substantiate it. Every analytical source says "undetermined" but people here are still saying "It was Israel" as a fact. And still don't see the issue. 

 

[Harrier]

8 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said:

LMFAO you can't make this sh*t up.

  

No wonder you're staunchingly defending Israel (and that's exactly what you're doing), you must drink the same water they do, thinking you can get away with blatant lies and no one will call you out. It'd be so funny if thousands of children weren't dying.

You mischaracterise what I said. I said higher government. Initial narratives claimed the man was a Netanyahu aide, which is untrue. It is not clear how he would have direct knowledge of the attack before anyone else. Note that he posted a photo of the attack taken by Palestinians in his initial tweet - as I said, reacting to it in real time.

 

Spend 5 minutes looking at this man's social media and you will understand what I am saying. Your continued personal attacks are rude and unecessary.

 

[More Than A Melody]

1 minute ago, Gaia said:

And it feels like this shouldn't need to be explained but:

 

Israel has factually done a LOT of things considered war crimes. No one is denying this fact (at least from what I've read).

 

That does NOT justify spreading misinformation and falsified news as "facts" when you can't substantiate it. Every analytical source says "undetermined" but people here are still saying "It was Israel" as a fact. And still don't see the issue. 

 

Hey, babe, since you're subtweeting

 

1. News isn't unbiased, we've been over this. News channels have an agenda. They're owned by corporations. There's an explicit bias for Israel and there's always been for reasons that you should be old enough to research for yourself, since you're old enough to comment here. I and other members have touched on them before.

 

2. Users are not news. "Innocent until proven guilty" applies to a court of law. We don't have to be careful with conclusions because our conclusions have no consequences for Israel (or anyone involved, for that matter, considering people here mostly believe the oppressor did this). Israel bombed the hospital. You're welcome to be a fence sitter (apply " " galore), I, however, have eyes and a brain.

 

Personally, I haven't shared "misinformation" or "falsified news" and I haven't seen anyone else do that, so whatever the hell that means.

[Aethereal]

1 hour ago, Redstreak said:

Well I also entertain the possibility that just like the numbers might be inflated, there also might be an interest to understate them  but even  100+ is devastating

I think the number of dead is probably 10 - 50, Gaza is probably not reporting the actual number (and they usually don't delay this much) out of fear that this might cause more support for Israel. They've been reporting fast and accurate numbers that even Israel agrees for most part in all events. Other buildings and hospitals that were hit by airstrikes have a lower death toll than 100. 

 

By the way I don't think that this exaggeration should be used to justify the Israeli aggression in Palestine at all. Even 10 dead is terrifying.

[More Than A Melody]

2 minutes ago, Harrier said:

You mischaracterise what I said. I said higher government. Initial narratives claimed the man was a Netanyahu aide, which is untrue. It is not clear how he would have direct knowledge of the attack before anyone else. Note that he posted a photo of the attack taken by Palestinians in his initial tweet - as I said, reacting to it in real time.

 

Spend 5 minutes looking at this man's social media and you will understand what I am saying. Your continued personal attacks are rude and unecessary.

 

He IS a Netanyahu aide. Did you not read? I quoted it twice already. Here you go again:

 

Naftali has been working for the former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu as part of his digital team for the past 3 years.

 

This comes directly from the Jerusalem post. His social media is linked. There are multiple articles he's written for them, the latest on December 13 2022, which is most likely when his profile was updated, hence "former" Prime Minister, as Netanyahu didn't regain his Prime Minister status until December 29 2022.

 

"It is not clear how he would have direct knowledge of the attack before anyone else" I mean, it wouldn't be before "anyone else" it would just be before the general public. Israel isn't randomly bombing. They target specific posts and then bomb them. He, who has been working for Netanyahu for three years, would absolutely know if they were planning on bombing a hospital. He deleted the tweet because the immediate reaction wasn't favorable.

 

Israel lied about killing Shireen Abu Aqla like, a year ago, and people reacted the exact same way they're doing with the hospital now.

 

No one is gratuitously personally attacking you. You're either lying, twisting things to fit a narrative, or you're not properly reading what you're replying to.

[Cloröx]

1 hour ago, GhostBox said:

They said it could be 100 to 300. 
which is far less (but still awful) than the 500 number hamas gave right after bombing their own people 💀

Lol you just said you would stop talking about who responsible for the bombing then here we are again. You are scrambling for new evidences since most of the fake ones provided by IDF get debunked real fast 

[Cloröx]

21 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said:

He IS a Netanyahu aide. Did you not read? I quoted it twice already. Here you go again:

 

Naftali has been working for the former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu as part of his digital team for the past 3 years.

 

This comes directly from the Jerusalem post. His social media is linked. There are multiple articles he's written for them, the latest on December 13 2022, which is most likely when his profile was updated, hence "former" Prime Minister, as Netanyahu didn't regain his Prime Minister status until December 29 2022.

 

"It is not clear how he would have direct knowledge of the attack before anyone else" I mean, it wouldn't be before "anyone else" it would just be before the general public. Israel isn't randomly bombing. They target specific posts and then bomb them. He, who has been working for Netanyahu for three years, would absolutely know if they were planning on bombing a hospital. He deleted the tweet because the immediate reaction wasn't favorable.

 

Israel lied about killing Shireen Abu Aqla like, a year ago, and people reacted the exact same way they're doing with the hospital now.

 

No one is gratuitously personally attacking you. You're either lying, twisting things to fit a narrative, or you're not properly reading what you're replying to.

That guy gets caught multiple times already for acknowledging the IDF responsibility and involvement in the Baptist Hospital bombing now they are trying to discredit saying he has no connection with Israel gov and Netanyahu himself 

[More Than A Melody]

16 minutes ago, Cloröx said:

That guy gets caught multiple times already for acknowledging the IDF responsibility and involvement in the Baptist Hospital bombing now they are trying to discredit saying he has no connection with Israel gov and Netanyahu himself 

If I had to guess, this person saw someone say that it was a random influencer on twitter (by some zionist grifter) and parroted it back, then ??? idk didn't read what I quoted past the word "former"? I can't think of another explanation to this. It's bizarre.

 

The guy works for Netanyahu as part of his DIGITAL TEAM. The idea that he, of all people, would be "reacting to it in real time like the rest of us" is so ridiculous I don't even have words.

[ZeroSuitBritney]

Took this picture today at the San Francisco protest at the Federal Reserve Building.

 

peep the war criminal!

 

[Aethereal]

The amount of support is Israel is getting in those DailyMail comments is sickening.  Imagine being bombed to death and people justifying it.

I think I need to stick to GoodNewsNetwork for a while to calm myself.

[chessguy99]

The US now has two carrier strike groups , an amphibious assault ship and a fleet command ship in the eastern Mediterranean. A force of that size isn't just showing support for Israel, that is country getting ready to go to war.

[Buffy]

One of the oldest churches in the world, Saint Porphyrios, that’s 2,000 years old was just bombed a few hours ago. There were 500 people taking shelter there.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Buffy

[Robert]

 

Sharing this for people that try to use LGBT rights to justify genocide. 

[thinking]

15 minutes ago, Robert said:

 

Sharing this for people that try to use LGBT rights to justify genocide. 

Like that 1 poster keeps trying it after embarrassing themselves,why??

[nooniebao]

1 hour ago, Robert said:

 

Sharing this for people that try to use LGBT rights to justify genocide. 

Owen Jones is such a hypocrite considering how he handled the antisemitism Labour Party issue in 2019. He totally smeared Corbyn for years imo.

[Cloröx]