celeb news "I don't know her." shade will now live forever with it's very own Wikipedia page.

[Touchdown]

35 minutes ago, suburbannature said:

 

 

gurl some of them are bringing up q'anon forums now , they're really pissed over this wiki article.  

Edited January 14 by Touchdown

[LikeATattoo]

2 hours ago, Inverted said:

It's proof that Mariah has participated in this behavior as early as 2000 and she started behaving this way long before Tommy even explicitly recycled her ideas for J.Lo. It's also shows her recorded on video being petty about J.Lo (celebrating Loreal wanting to fire her because Diddy got arrested and dragged her into jail with her... wtf ) while the mild examples of Jennifer's behavior is from 15+ years later is in reaction to Mariah (and her fans) still perpetuating the issue for decades.

 

As for whether or not J.Lo knew, it's hardly far-fetched. Aside from the Cory Rooney example, even Christina Milian described her day meeting Jennifer during a recording session and, while the interaction was positive (she bought Milian coffee thinking she was an assistant), she said the song was already produced and J.Lo was clueless about who did what and where the song came from. Milian was the one who wrote the demo, Tommy and Cory liked it and asked for it to be for J.Lo's album, Milian agreed, the song was produced and Jennifer flew in on the final day to sing/talk over he verses over the song. If you're going to argue that J.Lo knew that the songs were bought and shopped from others, of course she did. Some were shopped to her face. That's how non-songwriter pop stars get songs. That ideas like the Firecracker sample and a Ja Rule back-and-forth duet were copied from Mariah? Doubt it.

 

Finally, let's not go down that road comparing which side attacks the other more. In my experience on this website, YouTube comments, Twitter, etc., I personally do not find J.Lo fans regularly making comments about Mariah unless it's in reaction to trolling from the other side and in spite for that, but that's purely anecdotal. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt regarding the Wendy commercial break incident (although I am shocked that no one saved it and I've never seen it myself).

1. It’s proof that Mariah simply disdained Jen for unknown reasons prior to the main drama. Solely because the primary reason for the beef took place in the following year of that video doesn’t mean that certain seeds hadn’t already been planted. Who knows what Mariah had seen or heard regarding Jen prior to 2001?

 

2. Jen may not have been wholly aware of the sample situation, but it’s not unreasonable to believe that she knew what Tommy was trying to do to Mariah through her. There’s this weird infantilisation of Jen that her defenders resort to when discussing this whole situation, where they pretend that Jen had no idea that Tommy hated Mariah and was actively sabotaging her with replacement attempts (mind you, the entire music industry knew what was going on). It’s all very intellectually dishonest to me.

 

What makes Jen appear complicit to many, is her complete non-acknowledgement of the situation; not in a “classy, mature, rise above the BS” way, but in a very transparent “play dumb and make the other side’s feelings towards you seem random and unfounded” way. Jen has always known what the situation is, both its genesis and its lasting effects.
 

All that Jen would ever have had to do if she wanted to put the pettiness to bed, one time, is address the situation candidly and say that she had no knowledge of the sample shenanigans when she heard/recorded the song(s). There have been multiple opportunities for her to do this over the past eight years since the feud re-entered the public consciousness in 2016 and interviewers started asking her about it. And the kicker is, her doing this would not only have vindicated her but also made Mariah look like a jerk lol. Could’ve killed two massive PR birds with one stone. Alas, she hasn’t even attempted to divorce herself from the situation, which is why she continues to be painted as a willing participant in the attempted Mariah takedown of the early 2000s, and why people continue to drag her.

 

3. I think that it’s important to take into consideration each party’s position here. Jen fans aren’t quite as antagonistic towards Mariah as Mariah fans are towards Jen because Mariah was the attacked/wronged party. I will say that the Jen fans on Twitter, from what I’ve seen, have been pretty damn heinous towards Mariah.

 

I will find the Wendy receipt and post it at some point. It’s just harder to find than I anticipated. At the time it seemed to make the rounds, but it’s damn near unsearchable now smh.

Edited January 14 by LikeATattoo

[La Reina]

6 hours ago, suburbannature said:

"do it back" is what Mariah does. you mean when they start **** out of nowhere (Demi, Miley, Xtina, Madonna).

Umm no, Xtina has praised Mariah since before she even debuted back in 1998.

 

An older artist giving a newer artist the cold shoulder isn't uncommon. She was doing the same to Ariana at one point.

[suburbannature]

37 minutes ago, La Reina said:

Umm no, Xtina has praised Mariah since before she even debuted back in 1998.

 

An older artist giving a newer artist the cold shoulder isn't uncommon. She was doing the same to Ariana at one point.

Girl be fr. Xtina was nasty to everyone behind the scenes back then - I just heard another artist talking about it on radio the other day. She was rude to Mariah behind the scenes and then dragged her mental health to the press unprovoked. Mariah has always supported the up-and-comers who show her genuine respect (Britney, Beyonce, Jessica, Kelly Clarkson, Jojo, Tori, Rihanna, Taylor, etc.). The issue with Ari was people calling her the “young” Mariah, insinuating her moment had passed. Nick Cannon talked about it on radio - he said she praised Ari to him when he played her Emotions cover but took issue with the “new Mariah” because she was still around and making music. 

[La Reina]

25 minutes ago, suburbannature said:

Girl be fr. Xtina was nasty to everyone behind the scenes back then - I just heard another artist talking about it on radio the other day. She was rude to Mariah behind the scenes and then dragged her mental health to the press unprovoked. Mariah has always supported the up-and-comers who show her genuine respect (Britney, Beyonce, Jessica, Kelly Clarkson, Jojo, Tori, Rihanna, Taylor, etc.). The issue with Ari was people calling her the “young” Mariah, insinuating her moment had passed. Nick Cannon talked about it on radio - he said she praised Ari to him when he played her Emotions cover but took issue with the “new Mariah” because she was still around and making music. 

The fact remains Xtina praised Mariah before she even fully debuted. I wouldn't be surprised that she gave Xtina the cold shoulder just like she did to Ariana for being touted as the "next Mariah" or "best new female singer" at the time.

[LikeATattoo]

48 minutes ago, suburbannature said:

Girl be fr. Xtina was nasty to everyone behind the scenes back then - I just heard another artist talking about it on radio the other day. She was rude to Mariah behind the scenes and then dragged her mental health to the press unprovoked.

This isn’t nearly addressed enough. Personally, if someone used my mental health to insult me (let alone to the media), they’d be on my **** list too. I actually thought that Mariah’s response to her was merciful.
 

I generally like Xtina, but that was such an irredeemably tacky moment for her.

[Inverted]

3 hours ago, Touchdown said:

Mariah's butterfly theme was well known by that point. Sis you're the one that made her out to be a puppet by suggesting she had no control over her own video. If she's a real artist, the video is completely under her control. Just stop, you look silly.

No, it wasn't.  I lived through that era and no one equated butterflies and charmbracelets with Mariah only, especially not the average person. As for the puppet narrative, that's what you and your fellow stanbase insist and it's not like it's not true. She was not a "real artist," especially in 1999-2003 when she was a very manufactured pop star.

 

2 hours ago, Touchdown said:

gurl some of them are bringing up q'anon forums now , they're really pissed over this wiki article.  

Says the person created a conspiracy theory about a CGI key chain in a music video.  And first response in this thread said there's nothing wrong with the article. Good job with the gaslighting.

 

2 hours ago, LikeATattoo said:

1. It’s proof that Mariah simply disdained Jen for unknown reasons prior to the main drama. Solely because the primary reason for the beef took place in the following year of that video doesn’t mean that certain seeds hadn’t already been planted. Who knows what Mariah had seen or heard regarding Jen prior to 2001?

 

2. Jen may not have been wholly aware of the sample situation, but it’s not unreasonable to believe that she knew what Tommy was trying to do to Mariah through her. There’s this weird infantilisation of Jen that her defenders resort to when discussing this whole situation, where they pretend that Jen had no idea that Tommy hated Mariah and was actively sabotaging her with replacement attempts (mind you, the entire music industry knew what was going on). It’s all very intellectually dishonest to me.

 

What makes Jen appear complicit to many, is her complete non-acknowledgement of the situation; not in a “classy, mature, rise above the BS” way, but in a very transparent “play dumb and make the other side’s feelings towards you seem random and unfounded” way. Jen has always known what the situation is, both its genesis and its lasting effects.
 

All that Jen would ever have had to do if she wanted to put the pettiness to bed, one time, is address the situation candidly and say that she had no knowledge of the sample shenanigans when she heard/recorded the song(s). There have been multiple opportunities for her to do this over the past eight years since the feud re-entered the public consciousness in 2016 and interviewers started asking her about it. And the kicker is, her doing this would not only have vindicated her but also made Mariah look like a jerk lol. Could’ve killed two massive PR birds with one stone. Alas, she hasn’t even attempted to divorce herself from the situation, which is why she continues to be painted as a willing participant in the attempted Mariah takedown of the early 2000s, and why people continue to drag her.

 

3. I think that it’s important to take into consideration each party’s position here. Jen fans aren’t quite as antagonistic towards Mariah as Mariah fans are towards Jen because Mariah was the attacked/wronged party. I will say that the Jen fans on Twitter, from what I’ve seen, have been pretty damn heinous towards Mariah.

 

I will find the Wendy receipt and post it at some point. It’s just harder to find than I anticipated. At the time it seemed to make the rounds, but it’s damn near unsearchable now smh.

1. If that's the defense you're going to use, how are you diminishing Jen for being mildly retaliatory by liking (and unliking) an IG post and then having Benny Medina sign a contract with a clause that he promises he won't defect? You're speculating that Mariah must have seen or heard something about J.Lo as early as in 1999-2000, but that's just pure speculation. At best we know that Mariah knew that Jennifer was a new artist under a Sony label, was also a non-white woman with blonde highlights ("she stole my look"), she got a huge push from Tommy (her ex-husband who she rightfully disliked) and the label in 1999 and her first two singles were successful. From my perception, that is petty and sounds like she's taking it out on her ex-husband's new label darling. But let's pretend she did hear something. If that makes it justified to be that petty, how is J.Lo retaliating after getting non-stop vitriol from Mariah stans (and also fake, mis/disinformation-filled exposé inventing other examples of "theft" that aren't actually theft) with a IG like being demonized?

 

2. Defending J.Lo's supposed role in in Tommy's sabotage is hardly infantilizing her. You mentioned that the whole industry knew what lengths Tommy was going to in order to sabotage... according to what? MJ saying he didn't like Tommy and Da Brat (Mariah's own friend) also knowing? I highly doubt Tommy's other label "children" like Celine Dion, Ricky Martin, Destiny's Child, Jessica Simpson, Marc Anthony, Angela Via, Shakira, etc. had any idea what was going on besides that he's a powerful man with an ex-wife who's a singer. Going by your logic, all those plagiarism lawsuits Mariah has dealt with since 1990 are her fault or at least she played a complicit role. The reality is that a lot of those samples that were suggested to her (or selected by her) were just snatched by the label from the original smaller artists and not cleared properly with proper permission. How is that Mariah's fault? In that same vein, how is Tommy and the label snatching ideas from Mariah J.Lo's fault?

 

The only thing I agree with is that Jennifer could just reach out and apologize privately for what happened (especially the toll it took on Mariah's mental wellbeing at the time) or even publicly, but if you're going to speculate like you did above, maybe Mariah hasn't given Jennifer that chance. Or maybe Jen doesn't wants to even address it because she feels attacked constantly. Not everyone takes the high road easily. Mariah actually gave a 2008 interview while promoting TMB essentially saying that it was a label issue, not an actual feud so I give her credit for that, but since stan Twitter became a thing and has brought the meme back to life, she seems to enjoy the attention from it.

 

3. Jen fans feel that Mariah fans are the instigators (you did make a nasty comment earlier in this thread about how J.Lo stans) and this is their attempt to defend and retaliate. Anyway, I don't have an issue with Mariah and I don't go out of my way to diminish her, which is why you will rarely see me in threads about her.

[Touchdown]

Take a breath my love, it's going to be ok.

 

Edited January 14 by Touchdown

[LikeATattoo]

1 hour ago, Inverted said:

1. If that's the defense you're going to use, how are you diminishing Jen for being mildly retaliatory by liking (and unliking) an IG post and then having Benny Medina sign a contract with a clause that he promises he won't defect? You're speculating that Mariah must have seen or heard something about J.Lo as early as in 1999-2000, but that's just pure speculation. At best we know that Mariah knew that Jennifer was a new artist under a Sony label, was also a non-white woman with blonde highlights ("she stole my look"), she got a huge push from Tommy (her ex-husband who she rightfully disliked) and the label in 1999 and her first two singles were successful. From my perception, that is petty and sounds like she's taking it out on her ex-husband's new label darling. But let's pretend she did hear something. If that makes it justified to be that petty, how is J.Lo retaliating after getting non-stop vitriol from Mariah stans (and also fake, mis/disinformation-filled exposé inventing other examples of "theft" that aren't actually theft) with a IG like being demonized?

 

2. Defending J.Lo's supposed role in in Tommy's sabotage is hardly infantilizing her. You mentioned that the whole industry knew what lengths Tommy was going to in order to sabotage... according to what? MJ saying he didn't like Tommy and Da Brat (Mariah's own friend) also knowing? I highly doubt Tommy's other label "children" like Celine Dion, Ricky Martin, Destiny's Child, Jessica Simpson, Marc Anthony, Angela Via, Shakira, etc. had any idea what was going on besides that he's a powerful man with an ex-wife who's a singer. Going by your logic, all those plagiarism lawsuits Mariah has dealt with since 1990 are her fault or at least she played a complicit role. The reality is that a lot of those samples that were suggested to her (or selected by her) were just snatched by the label from the original smaller artists and not cleared properly with proper permission. How is that Mariah's fault? In that same vein, how is Tommy and the label snatching ideas from Mariah J.Lo's fault?

 

The only thing I agree with is that Jennifer could just reach out and apologize privately for what happened (especially the toll it took on Mariah's mental wellbeing at the time) or even publicly, but if you're going to speculate like you did above, maybe Mariah hasn't given Jennifer that chance. Or maybe Jen doesn't wants to even address it because she feels attacked constantly. Not everyone takes the high road easily. Mariah actually gave a 2008 interview while promoting TMB essentially saying that it was a label issue, not an actual feud so I give her credit for that, but since stan Twitter became a thing and has brought the meme back to life, she seems to enjoy the attention from it.

 

3. Jen fans feel that Mariah fans are the instigators (you did make a nasty comment earlier in this thread about how J.Lo stans) and this is their attempt to defend and retaliate. Anyway, I don't have an issue with Mariah and I don't go out of my way to diminish her, which is why you will rarely see me in threads about her.

1. I wasn’t condemning Jen’s retaliatory behaviour, I was just pushing back against the false narrative that she has always “risen above” the feud, which her fans continue to peddle despite numerous evidence to the contrary. Whether or not she was justified in said retaliations wasn’t the point of the post being referenced, and is an entirely different conversation. I will say, though, her unliking that IG post was some spineless BS lmao. I’m very much a “stand in your pettiness or discard it” person. 

 

No one has ever said that Jen was directly at fault for Tommy’s malice towards Mariah; for most people, the crux of the issue has always been the appearance of her complicity in various things that took place. I’d imagine that people find it easier to believe that Jen had some knowledge of what I will now be referring to as Sample Gate precisely because she’s a non-musician. Mariah writes and produces her own music — all of it. Always has. Take an esteemed songwriter with the proven ability to write for herself (and write hits, at that), and juxtapose her with someone whose music career is dependent on other people’s creativity — on the surface, who seems more likely to participate in plagiarism?

 

2. I’m sorry but going as far back as 1997, the bitterness between Mariah and Tommy was widely media circulated. Mariah even depicted the volatility of their relationship on the Butterfly album.

 

You said it yourself; Jen was the new darling of Sony. She more than likely had greater proximity to Mottola than her label mates.

 

3. Mariah’s whole schtick is poking fun at herself, and that includes poking fun at her purported feuds. She enjoys the “I don’t know her” circus because it’s utterly ridiculous, campy fun. On some level, I actually think that Jen enjoys it too. And if she in fact doesn’t, then the opportunity to vindicate herself has quite literally been one sound bite away for years now.

 

4. I called Jen stans losers because I can’t relate to stanning a music artist with such limited musical talent, but I’m aware that it’s poor form to punch down instead of up, and will try to be nicer going forward.
 

In all seriousness though, it comes down to each woman’s respective position here. The fandom with the fave who was done dirty are inevitably going to be more antagonistic than the fandom of the one who is perceived to have participated in the dirt, even if her participation can’t be proven. I’m not justifying the antagonism mind you, just explaining it.

Edited January 14 by LikeATattoo

[Inverted]

30 minutes ago, LikeATattoo said:

1. I wasn’t condemning Jen’s retaliatory behaviour, I was just pushing back against the false narrative that she has always “risen above” the feud, which her fans continue to peddle despite numerous evidence to the contrary. Whether or not she was justified in said retaliations wasn’t the point of the post being referenced, and is an entirely different conversation. I will say, though, her unliking that IG post was some spineless BS lmao. I’m very much a “stand in your pettiness or discard it” person. 

 

No one has ever said that Jen was directly at fault for Tommy’s malice towards Mariah; for most people, the crux of the issue has always been the appearance of her complicity in various things that took place. I’d imagine that people find it easier to believe that Jen had some knowledge of what I will now be referring to as Sample Gate precisely because she’s a non-musician. Mariah writes and produces her own music — all of it. Always has. Take an esteemed songwriter with the proven ability to write for herself (and write hits, at that), and juxtapose her with someone whose music career is dependent on other people’s creativity — on the surface, who seems more likely to participate in plagiarism?

 

2. I’m sorry but going as far back as 1997, the bitterness between Mariah and Tommy was widely media circulated. Mariah even depicted the volatility of their relationship on the Butterfly album.

 

You said it yourself; Jen was the new darling of Sony. She more than likely had greater proximity to Mottola than her label mates.

 

3. Mariah’s whole schtick is poking fun at herself, and that includes poking fun at her purported feuds. She enjoys the “I don’t know her” circus because it’s utterly ridiculous, campy fun. On some level, I actually think that Jen enjoys it too. And if she in fact doesn’t, then the opportunity to vindicate herself has quite literally been one sound bite away for years now.

 

4. I called Jen stans losers because I can’t relate to stanning a music artist with such limited musical talent, but I’m aware that it’s poor form to punch down instead of up, and will try to be nicer going forward.
 

In all seriousness though, it comes down to each woman’s respective position here. The fandom with the fave who was done dirty are inevitably going to be more antagonistic than the fandom of the one who is perceived to have participated in the dirt, even if her participation can’t be proven. I’m not justifying the antagonism mind you, just explaining it.

1. I'd prefer that she didn't like the post and just kept scrolling. And if she liked it accidentally, I would have unliked it also. I don't think there's anything wrong with avoiding conflict. She seems the type who likes diplomacy.

 

I don't understand this part of your response:

 

"I’d imagine that people find it easier to believe that Jen had some knowledge of what I will now be referring to as Sample Gate precisely because she’s a non-musician. Mariah writes and produces her own music — all of it. Always has. Take an esteemed songwriter with the proven ability to write for herself (and write hits, at that), and juxtapose her with someone whose music career is dependent on other people’s creativity — on the surface, who seems more likely to participate in plagiarism?"

 

How would the person who relies on other people to write and produce (and heavily relies on backup/session vocalists to drown her out during hooks) contribute to plagiarism? Manufactured "artists" are spoon fed material. The plagiarist would be the one who actually contributed to the writing, composing and production of the song. That's why Mariah was dragged into those legal battles. In any case, I brought the plagiarism lawsuits up because your argument above is that it's not likely that J.Lo had no knowledge of the samples and ideas being funneled from Mariah. If you truly believe that, Mariah must have had knowledge that the sampling/copying she was sued for her multiple in the 90s were copied from others (whether she wrote lyrics or not). I highly doubt Mariah actually knew just like I highly doubt J.Lo knew.

 

2. I started being conscious of pop music (and pop culture in general) in 1997-98 when I was in elementary school and I honestly had little to no knowledge about their relationship beyond their divorce and not liking each other. And I only learned more about Tommy's tactics (and label scams and tactics in general) in the 2000s when Sony was exposed for payola tactics thanks to a heavily publicized lawsuit. I honestly don't believe it's far fetched that not everyone, including Jen and Mariah, knew the details of what labels do behind the scenes to other artists . Like I mentioned above, I doubt Mariah knew that her label was giving her uncredited samples to use in songs.

 

3. I can see that in Mariah, but I don't think Jen shares that quality. She seems like a person who's overly serious and addicted to work. Those type of people are too anxious to enjoy campiness. Also, while Mariah might perpetuate the issue (whether or not she doesn't mean to do it with malice), I think this is mainly an issue of Mariah stans being rude. Even someone in the Lopez vs. Carey thread in Base who isn't a J.Lo, Madonna or Xtina stan said they enjoy Mariah's albums, but avoid Mariah fandom because the stan attitudes ruined it for him. 

 

4. And I don't understand this part either. You follow pop music. Not every pop star writes or even sings well (or performs well). Likewise, not all actors will ever give tour de force performances. That doesn't mean they can't be liked or the material they put out can't be enjoyed.

 

Finally, I understand your last point, but I'd just ignore the other artist if I were in the same position (see my actual favorite vocalist Nicole Scherzinger versus Cheryl Cole—I have no interest in the latter).

[Touchdown]

The delusions.... I - 

 

[killer_rose]

The essays in here over an iconic shade.
Some of you need take a chill pill.

[LikeATattoo]

9 hours ago, Inverted said:

1. I'd prefer that she didn't like the post and just kept scrolling. And if she liked it accidentally, I would have unliked it also. I don't think there's anything wrong with avoiding conflict. She seems the type who likes diplomacy.

 

I don't understand this part of your response:

 

"I’d imagine that people find it easier to believe that Jen had some knowledge of what I will now be referring to as Sample Gate precisely because she’s a non-musician. Mariah writes and produces her own music — all of it. Always has. Take an esteemed songwriter with the proven ability to write for herself (and write hits, at that), and juxtapose her with someone whose music career is dependent on other people’s creativity — on the surface, who seems more likely to participate in plagiarism?"

 

How would the person who relies on other people to write and produce (and heavily relies on backup/session vocalists to drown her out during hooks) contribute to plagiarism? Manufactured "artists" are spoon fed material. The plagiarist would be the one who actually contributed to the writing, composing and production of the song. That's why Mariah was dragged into those legal battles. In any case, I brought the plagiarism lawsuits up because your argument above is that it's not likely that J.Lo had no knowledge of the samples and ideas being funneled from Mariah. If you truly believe that, Mariah must have had knowledge that the sampling/copying she was sued for her multiple in the 90s were copied from others (whether she wrote lyrics or not). I highly doubt Mariah actually knew just like I highly doubt J.Lo knew.

 

2. I started being conscious of pop music (and pop culture in general) in 1997-98 when I was in elementary school and I honestly had little to no knowledge about their relationship beyond their divorce and not liking each other. And I only learned more about Tommy's tactics (and label scams and tactics in general) in the 2000s when Sony was exposed for payola tactics thanks to a heavily publicized lawsuit. I honestly don't believe it's far fetched that not everyone, including Jen and Mariah, knew the details of what labels do behind the scenes to other artists . Like I mentioned above, I doubt Mariah knew that her label was giving her uncredited samples to use in songs.

 

3. I can see that in Mariah, but I don't think Jen shares that quality. She seems like a person who's overly serious and addicted to work. Those type of people are too anxious to enjoy campiness. Also, while Mariah might perpetuate the issue (whether or not she doesn't mean to do it with malice), I think this is mainly an issue of Mariah stans being rude. Even someone in the Lopez vs. Carey thread in Base who isn't a J.Lo, Madonna or Xtina stan said they enjoy Mariah's albums, but avoid Mariah fandom because the stan attitudes ruined it for him. 

 

4. And I don't understand this part either. You follow pop music. Not every pop star writes or even sings well (or performs well). Likewise, not all actors will ever give tour de force performances. That doesn't mean they can't be liked or the material they put out can't be enjoyed.

 

Finally, I understand your last point, but I'd just ignore the other artist if I were in the same position (see my actual favorite vocalist Nicole Scherzinger versus Cheryl Cole—I have no interest in the latter).

1. Jen liked and unliked that post for the same reason that people tweet and delete — she wanted to send a message without actually having to stand firm in said message. More than liking diplomacy (what sound-minded adult doesn’t?), I believe that she likes appearing diplomatic, hence her shade being more subtle than Mariah’s lol.

 

2. You can’t see how it’s believable that someone who doesn’t create their own music is more likely to be okay with stealing music than someone who does make their own music? Like, you genuinely believe that if Jen were told about the journey that the sample took to end up in her hands, she would’ve noped out of recording and releasing the song?

 

Mariah was in her early 20s and creatively subdued under Mottola’s thumb. Jen was in her early 30s and had a lot more professional and creative autonomy than Mariah would have done in their respective situations. The dynamics are totally different.

 

3. Right, but you were a child who was just becoming engrossed in pop culture and the world at large. Jen was not only an adult, but an industry insider with a front row seat to the all of the gossip. Again, we’re talking about two completely different dynamics here.

 

4. I can see Jen’s reticence to this kind of thing, but again, if she’s not enjoying it then she has the ability to craft a 45 second sound bite or even a short, simple written statement. She has the ability to not only put this to bed but also turn it into pro-J.Lo PR. In fact, her navigation of the saga doesn’t even need to be public; she could very easily settle it privately by contacting Mariah and having whatever conversation needs to be had. She chooses not to do any of the aforementioned however, whilst continuing to publicly play dumb. I can empathise with not enjoying something and wanting it to stop. I can’t empathise with having as much disposable power as her and not doing anything to put an end to drama that’s tarnishing her brand. And it’s not like she’s some shrinking violet being victimised lol. She’s more than capable of giving as good as she gets and has shown herself to be an alpha-type personality who doesn’t shy away from confrontation.

 

5. I tend to steer clear of generalising fandoms, particularly within the bubble of (gay) music pop culture. Ultimately, stan culture as a whole is poisonous. The idea that Lambs are uniquely bad is neither realistic nor fair to me. If someone anecdotally finds Lambs more annoying than other fandoms then that’s their individual experience that I can’t contest.

 

6. Honestly that was just me getting in a fun little zinger for the road. I don’t think that Jen is undeserving of fans, nor was that even implied lol.

 

7. There are probably more Mariah fans who ignore Jen than there are those who drag her. The antagonists will always be louder, even if/when they’re the minority. That’s just the natural order of things for some reason. Again, it’s also worth noting that Jen fans participate in the mud-slinging, and this isn’t always retaliatory.

Edited January 14 by LikeATattoo

[LikeATattoo]

I dunno guys, lots of discourse is happening but this is actually the most civilised and diplomatic that the thread has been, so I personally can’t complain…

[Virtual_Insanity]

20 hours ago, Touchdown said:

was waiting for your eventual presence in this thread... I hope you enjoyed the Wiki article.

I think the IDKH thing is hillarious. 

 

The dumb part is how over the years Mariah and lambs claim she wasn't actually trying to shade JLO.. where as obviously she was. 

 

However, I personally found the I still don't know her clip way funnier. I screamed when I heard it. 

 

Can you post it for laughs ? 

 

Also there is another rare clip where some journalist asks Mariah is JLO has had any influence on her music. 

 

Her answer is so funny . 

 

 

[Virtual_Insanity]

8 hours ago, killer_rose said:

The essays in here over an iconic shade.
Some of you need take a chill pill.

So why does Mariah go to such LENGTHS to claim it wasn't shade 20 years later. 

 

That Andy Cohen interview alone... 

[Virtual_Insanity]

5 hours ago, LikeATattoo said:

I dunno guys, lots of discourse is happening but this is actually the most civilised and diplomatic that the thread has been, so I personally can’t complain…

This thread was opened with the sole intention of attacking JLO, which is why certain members of the panel have an issue with actual discussion. 

[Bussea]

the essays  are these women paying yall   

[Inverted]

19 hours ago, Touchdown said:

Take a breath my love, it's going to be ok.

 

 

12 hours ago, Touchdown said:

The delusions.... I - 

 

 

10 hours ago, killer_rose said:

The essays in here over an iconic shade.
Some of you need take a chill pill.

Ma'am, you need to give it a rest and stop desperately bumping up your own thread. We're not even discussing the Wikipedia article.

 

7 hours ago, LikeATattoo said:

1. Jen liked and unliked that post for the same reason that people tweet and delete — she wanted to send a message without actually having to stand firm in said message. More than liking diplomacy (what sound-minded adult doesn’t?), I believe that she likes appearing diplomatic, hence her shade being more subtle than Mariah’s lol.

 

2. You can’t see how it’s believable that someone who doesn’t create their own music is more likely to be okay with stealing music than someone who does make their own music? Like, you genuinely believe that if Jen were told about the journey that the sample took to end up in her hands, she would’ve noped out of recording and releasing the song?

 

Mariah was in her early 20s and creatively subdued under Mottola’s thumb. Jen was in her early 30s and had a lot more professional and creative autonomy than Mariah would have done in their respective situations. The dynamics are totally different.

 

3. Right, but you were a child who was just becoming engrossed in pop culture and the world at large. Jen was not only an adult, but an industry insider with a front row seat to the all of the gossip. Again, we’re talking about two completely different dynamics here.

 

4. I can see Jen’s reticence to this kind of thing, but again, if she’s not enjoying it then she has the ability to craft a 45 second sound bite or even a short, simple written statement. She has the ability to not only put this to bed but also turn it into pro-J.Lo PR. In fact, her navigation of the saga doesn’t even need to be public; she could very easily settle it privately by contacting Mariah and having whatever conversation needs to be had. She chooses not to do any of the aforementioned however, whilst continuing to publicly play dumb. I can empathise with not enjoying something and wanting it to stop. I can’t empathise with having as much disposable power as her and not doing anything to put an end to drama that’s tarnishing her brand. And it’s not like she’s some shrinking violet being victimised lol. She’s more than capable of giving as good as she gets and has shown herself to be an alpha-type personality who doesn’t shy away from confrontation.

 

5. I tend to steer clear of generalising fandoms, particularly within the bubble of (gay) music pop culture. Ultimately, stan culture as a whole is poisonous. The idea that Lambs are uniquely bad is neither realistic nor fair to me. If someone anecdotally finds Lambs more annoying than other fandoms then that’s their individual experience that I can’t contest.

 

6. Honestly that was just me getting in a fun little zinger for the road. I don’t think that Jen is undeserving of fans, nor was that even implied lol.

 

7. There are probably more Mariah fans who ignore Jen than there are those who drag her. The antagonists will always be louder, even if/when they’re the minority. That’s just the natural order of things for some reason. Again, it’s also worth noting that Jen fans participate in the mud-slinging, and this isn’t always retaliatory.

1. This is all perception vs. reality. From my perception, I don't think she has the capability. She can barely defend herself or respond directly to any criticism. In fact, she avoids and side steps criticism because she can't handle it. Those type of people avoid conflict as much as they can. She can't even say anything negative about Marc, Diddy, A-Rod and her mom (and even still befriends the first two) even though she's been mistreated by them.

 

2. If you put it that way, sure. I understand our point, but I still can't see many artists agreeing to everything going behind the scenes if they knew all the seedy details. Forget altruism. They'd have to worry about lawsuits and character assassination. We can go back and forth all day, but I cannot imagine a younger new naive act (Mariah), a newly recruited actress about to turn 30 (Jen) or even a veteran who was a child star turned into an adult star (Ricky Martin) being privy to all the things that go on behind the scenes even if they are older or been in the music industry longer, especially not artists who do not contribute to the writing and production of their material. They'd have to actually ask. Instead she's the one who bought Christina Milian coffee after mistaking for an assistant (when that "assistant" actually WROTE and DEMOED the song she flew in to record) so I interpret that as cluelessness. Likewise, do you really think most actors know what goes in with the writing and production of the movies or TV shows they're in? Highly doubt it unless they're part of the creative them themselves.

 

3. and 4. Well, for all we know, she might have tried or wants to try, but isn't capable. This is connected to point #1. She doesn't seem bold enough to sit down and clear the air. She completely avoids conflict.

 

5. and 7. I agree and can't contest these points.

[Wonderland]

On 1/6/2024 at 3:24 PM, WildAmerican said:

The "Ohh that's not.." moment from The View needs to be memorialized for eternity next, I fear!

The way that interaction still sends shivers down my spine 

 

[Touchdown]

6 hours ago, Inverted said:

 

 

We're not even discussing the Wikipedia article.

 

You think I care about what you want to discuss? Take whatever YOU want to talk about somewhere else or make your own thread about it. This thread that I made is about the Wiki article.  So thank you for coming to MY thread but today we're going to discuss the topic in the title which is the Wiki article that will live on longer than you and J Lo alike.

 

 

 

Edited January 15 by Touchdown

[stevyy]

Jennifer Lopez fans are calling Mariah Carey a pig. 

 

I do not need to say more. That says it all. 

 

 

[Touchdown]

Has everyone finally calmed down?