base talk Is Madonna really bigger than Taylor and Mariah?

[UseYourIllusion2002]

I don't see how people think Mariah is bigger than Madonna. Even though Mariah has that Christmas jingle and more #1's, Madonna still ranks as the biggest artist of ALL TIME on the Billboard Hot 100. On top of that, they both have sold around 75m albums in the United States. Mariah's certs are updated, while Madonna's haven't been since the late 90s, but they're both at around that number. Madonna wins in the singles department and they're pretty much tied in albums. And that doesn't even include worldwide numbers, which Madonna clearly wins by a landslide. Then you include awards, touring stats, and impact and Madonna wins by a landslide. 

 

As for Taylor, Madonna is obviously bigger worldwide. As when it comes to the USA, Madonna is still bigger in regards to singles. Despite all of Taylor's Hot 100 tricks in 2019-2021. Now that I think about it, even Mariah gamed the charts in the 90s, something Madonna never did. In regards to albums, I'm going to say Taylor is bigger (just in the US). But the market is completely different and favors a massive artist like Taylor. Worldwide, Madonna easily wins in regards to albums.

 

So, Mariah beats Madonna in nothing and Taylor beats Madonna on the BB200, but just in the United States. Madonna has still sold more albums in the United States and Worldwide.

[Goaty]

6 hours ago, GlamSlam said:

Oh dear. Talk about counting your chickens before they've hatched.

 

You should never put that much faith in the fickle GP. Nothing is guaranteed to stay afloat for "decades upon decades" - especially when it comes to music. Times change, trends change, and Taylor will eventually fizzle out like everyone else in the entertainment industry did. Whether it happens tomorrow, next year or five or ten years down the line. Taylor will lose popularity, it's inevitable.

I’m not talking about commercial performance. Any artist, even the most influential, don’t usually have established legacies until years and years after their prime. What legacy Taylor is carving out now will not be obvious for years. So the assertion that she could “never” topple Madonna culturally is the “counting your chickens before they hatch” that I’m contesting in the first place 

[Cruel Summer]

35 minutes ago, UseYourIllusion2002 said:

I don't see how people think Mariah is bigger than Madonna. Even though Mariah has that Christmas jingle and more #1's, Madonna still ranks as the biggest artist of ALL TIME on the Billboard Hot 100. On top of that, they both have sold around 75m albums in the United States. Mariah's certs are updated, while Madonna's haven't been since the late 90s, but they're both at around that number. Madonna wins in the singles department and they're pretty much tied in albums. And that doesn't even include worldwide numbers, which Madonna clearly wins by a landslide. Then you include awards, touring stats, and impact and Madonna wins by a landslide. 

 

As for Taylor, Madonna is obviously bigger worldwide. As when it comes to the USA, Madonna is still bigger in regards to singles. Despite all of Taylor's Hot 100 tricks in 2019-2021. Now that I think about it, even Mariah gamed the charts in the 90s, something Madonna never did. In regards to albums, I'm going to say Taylor is bigger (just in the US). But the market is completely different and favors a massive artist like Taylor. Worldwide, Madonna easily wins in regards to albums.

 

So, Mariah beats Madonna in nothing and Taylor beats Madonna on the BB200, but just in the United States. Madonna has still sold more albums in the United States and Worldwide.

To be completely fair to Mariah, though, the all-time Hot 100 Artists chart is not a great indicator of holistic success in the US. On the 2019 edition of the overall all-time greatest artists chart, Mariah was one spot ahead of Madonna at #4 to #5, indicating that Billboard views her as holistically bigger in the US specifically than Madonna (at least commercially). She’s also likely gained a lot of points on the Hot 100 and overall charts since then thanks to AIWFCIY hitting #1 annually.

 

Also on the 2019 chart was Taylor at #8, just a few spots away; by the beginning of 2023 she had likely superseded both Mariah and Madonna in US chart performance, and then 2023 was her biggest year by a huge margin. If Billboard were to update their holistic all-time artists chart today, Taylor would almost certainly be in the top three artists with The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, and I’d bet she’d make #2 at this point.

 

I can agree with your assessments about worldwide success so far. Even if we solely talk about album equivalent units, Madonna is far enough ahead of Taylor that it will take a few years for the latter to take that title, and then we of course have to factor in Madonna’s significant advantage in terms of cultural impact and her influence on every pop star since her own debut. I think Madonna will probably hold the title of “biggest woman pop star” for a very long time yet when accounting for both hard and soft measures of success, plus the changing contexts of the industry (more consumers in the market, different consumption patterns). I also think Madonna will likely always have the top position in pure sales given the changes to the industry since her peak, though with Taylor leading the vinyl resurgence globally, it’s a slim possibility that she one day takes the lead there too - but that is many years away if it ever happens at all.