news Research shows religious people are more likely to be against gay marriage

[anti-bitch]

3 hours ago, jesus del rey said:

Just a pure methodological perspective: you can not assume causality between the two via surveys  

But even just anecdotally, you see everyone in this thread saying that they knew this already, thus many people must have had bad experiences dealing with religious people especially when it comes to this topic, although the user base here skews western, so it might be a bit different in Asia for example.

[jesus del rey]

3 minutes ago, anti-***** said:

But even just anecdotally, you see everyone in this thread saying that they knew this already, thus many people must have had bad experiences dealing with religious people especially when it comes to this topic, although the user base here skews western, so it might be a bit different in Asia for example.

Religion is a complex issue, even has its own sociological school of taught. Reducing it faulty causalities and assumed anecdotes leads to false discourses. This is not "research", it's just another content. 

[Pendulum]

Isn't it just the Abrahamic religions? From what I know, Nepal is deeply Hindu but significantly more LGBTQ+ friendly than India. 

[anti-bitch]

17 minutes ago, jesus del rey said:

Religion is a complex issue, even has its own sociological school of taught. Reducing it faulty causalities and assumed anecdotes leads to false discourses. This is not "research", it's just another content. 

But surveying is research. And it's not possible to make peace with the fact that the Bible and Quran have passages calling for death for homosexual people. And those "holy books" have been the basis for western and middle eastern cultures for two millennia. I know not every religion is the same, especially not those in Asia, but for these Abrahamic religions, the violence and moral policing written in their source books is what's driving young people away from them.

Edited December 26, 2023 by anti-bitch

[jesus del rey]

4 minutes ago, anti-***** said:

But surveying is research. And it's not possible to make peace with the fact that the Bible and Quran have passages calling for death for homosexual people. And those "holy books" have been the basis for western and middle eastern cultures for two millennia. I know not every religion is the same, especially not those in Asia, but for these Abrahamic religions, the violence and moral policing written in their source books is what's driving young people away from them.

I am not saying survey is not research, I am saying faulty causalities and assumed anecdotes are not research.  

[anti-bitch]

9 minutes ago, Pendulum said:

Isn't it just the Abrahamic religions? From what I know, Nepal is deeply Hindu but significantly more LGBTQ+ friendly than India. 

Cambodia and Sri Lanka are mostly Buddhist, and apparently the kind of sex that leads to procreation is preferred, which would be a problem for gay people, but they don't seem to outright prohibit it. So it's not just Abrahamic religions, but others arent's so strict about it.

[anti-bitch]

9 minutes ago, jesus del rey said:

I am not saying survey is not research, I am saying faulty causalities and assumed anecdotes are not research.  

But you see that "correlation: 0.70" thing mentioned in the picture in the opening post. So whether it's causality or not, there seems to be 70% correlation between how devoted people are to their faith and how much they support same-sex marriage in this data set. And you can't just brush aside anecdotes by calling them "assumed." You could ask any queer people that who have they had most trouble with in life, religious or non-religious people, and many would say the former.

 

Then if we get more philosophical and ask that where does homophobia come from, if you have alternative theories I'd like to hear them, but if you get told your whole life by other people that marriage is between man and woman, and that man who sleeps with other men shall be put to death, it's hard to rise above it and think otherwise.

 

And by the way, I'm not advocating for atheism or non-religion. Of course there could be an element of unfamiliarity involved, meaning that some people reject homosexuality just because it's something unusual for them, not necessarily thinking it's a "bad" thing.

[jesus del rey]

Just now, anti-***** said:

But you see that "correlation: 0.70" thing mentioned in the picture in the opening post. So whether it's causality or not, there seems to be 70% correlation between how devoted people are to their faith and how much they support same-sex marriage in this data set. And you can't just brush aside anecdotes by calling them "assumed." You could ask any queer people that who have they had most trouble with in life, religious or non-religious people, and many would say the former.

 

Then if we get more philosophical and ask that where does homophobia come from, if you have alternative theories I'd like to hear them, but if you get told your whole life by other people that marriage is between man and woman, and that man who sleeps with other men shall be put to death, it's hard to rise above it and think otherwise.

 

And by the way, I'm not advocating for atheism or non-religion. Of course there could be an element of unfamiliarity involved, meaning that some people reject homosexuality just because it's something unusual for them, not necessarily thinking it's a "bad" thing.

I am not gonna go deep about it, it's not that deep sis  I just pointed out the false causality in the title, as you said "correlation", not "causality". 

[C-Amber]

13 hours ago, Trent W said:

Jesus was asexual, he was probably closer to the average lgbtq folk than a basic straight 

 

He also was supposed to be an all loving entity, he just can’t be homophobic

 

Christianity doesn’t make much sense anyway

 

Everything is a contradiction there

No he isn't, all the Aprahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are fundamentally and originally against same-sex relationship, its basic rule, and the three religions started with Moses, Jesus and Muhammad have the same fundamental rules, so basically the three who created it have the same original values. Just because you think Jesus is Asexual doesn't mean he'll be supporting same sex relationship.

[anti-bitch]

1 hour ago, jesus del rey said:

I am not gonna go deep about it, it's not that deep sis  I just pointed out the false causality in the title, as you said "correlation", not "causality". 

Lol, ok ok. I edited the title just now 

[igninton]

2 hours ago, anti-***** said:

It's not about one religion being better or worse than others though. One could argue that people in Spain, Brazil and maybe Argentina are perhaps less devoted to Catholicism than in Italy for example. And Germany is kinda split between Catholics and Protestants. But non-religion seems to be the future in many countries.

I am not saying that one religion is better than another. I am not even Catholic myself or religious at all but you have got to admit the constant narrative you find online about Catholicism being supper oppressive towards LGBTQ as opposed to other faiths (protestantism comes to mind) and if you look up where same sex marriage is legal, 17 out of those 35 countries are predominantly Catholic. That's all I meant. 

Edited December 26, 2023 by igninton

[Wolf Alice]

18 hours ago, Pendulum said:

Isn't it just the Abrahamic religions? From what I know, Nepal is deeply Hindu but significantly more LGBTQ+ friendly than India. 

Hindu religious texts are quite open-minded in the way they deal with alternative genders but don't explicitly talk about sexual stuff anyway. Still, ancient Indian iconography in temples and other structures shows that sexual openness was quite acceptable. It only deteriorated in the last 400 years or so and homophobia became part of the societal fabric during the height of British colonial rule whose legacy still lives on in today's Indian law. The law that criminalised homosexuality in India was a British colonial holdover (it's the same one in Singapore) and wasn't struck down till 2018. So, I would argue that Christianity-led homophobia became a part of Indian societal norms over time and it just stayed unfortunately.