base talk 25 years later, is Madonna "Ray of Light" era still the best female reinvention ever?

[Link16]

 

 

By the time Madonna released "Human Nature" in 1995, people had grown numb to her outrageous images. Sure, the music was good, but it was lost in the circus Madonna created herself. That was the case for Erotica too, and Like a Prayer, and seemingly every album she released prior. Madonna's style completely overshadowed her substance; she was everywhere, yet no one knew who the hell she was. Fans and critics alike began wondering how she'd keep the show going after (problematic) cornrows and catsuits. How would the queen of shock out-shock herself?

 

The answer was actually shocking. In 1998—three years after "Human Nature" and six years after Erotica—Madonna ushered in a new, surprising reinvention: herself. She did this through Ray of Light, her seventh studio album, which was released in the United States almost 25 years ago today. It's arguably her best work, full stop: a sprawling collection of earthy electronica that's vast in sonic landscape yet intimate in content. For the first time ever, Madonna was introspective, not performative—internal, not external. All the songs from the record sound like diary entries—a sharp contrast to the bombastic, declarative style of her biggest hits, like "Express Yourself" and "Open Your Heart." On Ray of Light, Madonna isn't pushing an agenda or buttons, or trying to change culture at large. She's simply self-reflecting, and because of that, it's her most shocking work to date.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Link16

[PoisonedIvy]

Beautifully written post! Madonna is a chameleon, so for her to remove her cloaks and vulnerably wear a transparent heart on her sleeves was indeed a remarkable reinvention that circumvented any expectations others would have had of her at the time. I think this album is amazing, easily one of the greatest records in MUSIC ever — not just in pop, but for any recording artist ever — and I would love to find anything even remotely similar.  

[Alexz]

The best album of all time.

[Goaty]

Her best work. The album is sophisticated and experimental and rich in detail. I’m not the biggest Madonna fan but I’ll always advocate ROL as one of the greatest albums of all time. 
 

My **only** complaint is I think Candy Perfume Girl should have been left off the track list. It’s a dud. 

[Raptus]

No, Taylor going from pop (1989) to goth-punk (Reputation) is. Album about female rage >>>>> the one about prasing motherhood (woman being a mother? groundbreaking...)

 

 

[Orsay]

Yes

 

we can only PRAY that Godga still has an era like this in her  she’s around the same age Madge was in ‘98

[Katamari]

Yes 

 

Illuminati queen was in her bag with that one

[Raptus]

5 minutes ago, Orsay said:

Yes

 

we can only PRAY that Godga still has an era like this in her  she’s around the same age Madge was in ‘98

She already tried to serve deep, organic album. And we got Joanne...

 

[Big Bad Wolf]

Yes but she needs to stop showing up 3 hours late to her concerts 

[She-Rah]

An artistic peak.

 

i can’t believe a song as beautiful as Frozen exists. She had balls by releasing such long and slow song as her comeback single! And it was so successful.

 

ahh I love this era. The album has held so well imo

[KatyPrismSpirit]

its an amazing record but music is way better imo

[Shimenawa]

She peaked there artistically. COADF was still amazing in another genre but yeah this is her masterpiece🤍

[Riverbank]

Her best and her most accomplished one for me

[LOTF]

Beautifully written post. However, I would argue there's debate to be had on this part:

Quote

Madonna ushered in a new, surprising reinvention: herself

Ray of Light was the transformation that made sense for Madonna at that point in her life but I feel like her true self is more close to the button pushing provocateur she was during the first decade of her career and during the 2010s

[slw84]

I'm trying to find a better one and I'm not really getting another option.

 

Some great reinventions:

Janet's Janet. album

Britney's In the zone album

Beyonce's BEYONCE album

Gaga's The FAME Monster album

Pink's Missundastood album

Christina Augilera's Back to Basic album

Mariah's Butterfly album

Toni Braxton's Secrets album

Lauryn HIll's Miseducation of Lauryn Hill album

Missy Elliot's Miss E So Addictive (album with Get your freak on) album or Under Construction (album with Work it) album 

Taylor Swift's 1989 album

Rihanna's Loud era

Kelly Clarkson's Breakaway era

 

But better than Ray of Light...not sure 

 

I'd say Ray of light > Janet > Miseducation of Lauryn Hill > Missundastood > BEYONCE > In the zone > 1989 > Butterfly> Miss E So addictive > The FAME Monster are top 10.

[TipToe]

Yes, imagine being a kid in the 90s, knowing Madonna for her slutty image and then suddenly watching "Frozen" music video on MTV. That was shocking. But people older than me says that "Like a Prayer" was even more shocking since it was a departure from her blonde bumblegum-pop image and it made much more noise so i dunno.

Edited December 16, 2023 by TipToe

[UseYourIllusion2002]

Yes, but I'm inclined to say True Blue/Who's That Girl to Like a Prayer was an even bigger reinvention. Despite Papa Don't Preach being somewhat controversial, her 1987 era has to be her safest yet. I love the music, but it was definitely family-friendly. Especially songs like Who's That Girl, True Blue, Live to Tell, La Isla Bonita, The Look of Love, etc. Hell, Can't Stop is more childish than most Olivia Rodrigo songs. Her image was also very safe aside from maybe the Open Your Heart music video. But then Like a Prayer came and the safe music was gone except for Cherish. The album was extremely personal and had songs about her mother's death, her father, siblings, abusive divorce, etc. The Like a Prayer music video was extremely controversial and the Express Yourself music video was a complete 180 from her previous videos. Madonna went from being seen as another teeny-bopper singer to a grown woman. Just look at her image.  Notice how each new era ushered a "new Madonna"

. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by UseYourIllusion2002

[alexrex]

I was like 4 yo when this album came out. In retrospective (From what I've read and seen about it now) , I would say that was a pivotal point in Madonna's career to transform into a more centered and focused artist. And that she would be inspired to take her creativity to another level, like other artists have done in the past. 

 

I think ROL is an amazing record (In my opinion it's her best). It's grounded, experimental, focused and solid. The lyrics are deep and honest. The production is well executed and forward thinking.  But I don't understand why she screw everything she achieved with it to go and chase the pop trends that came afterwards. The next albums don't come any close so I don't know what happened to Madonna. What made her headspace change so drastically ?

 

So yeah, it's an important reinvention, but it didn't have a long lasting impact in her own career. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by alexrex

[Link16]

50 minutes ago, slw84 said:

I'm trying to find a better one and I'm not really getting another option.

 

Some great reinventions:

Janet's Janet. album

Britney's In the zone album

Beyonce's BEYONCE album

Gaga's The FAME Monster album

Pink's Missundastood album

Christina Augilera's Back to Basic album

Mariah's Butterfly album

Toni Braxton's Secrets album

Lauryn HIll's Miseducation of Lauryn Hill album

Missy Elliot's Miss E So Addictive (album with Get your freak on) album or Under Construction (album with Work it) album 

Taylor Swift's 1989 album

Rihanna's Loud era

Kelly Clarkson's Breakaway era

 

But better than Ray of Light...not sure 

 

I'd say Ray of light > Janet > Miseducation of Lauryn Hill > Missundastood > BEYONCE > In the zone > 1989 > Butterfly> Miss E So addictive > The FAME Monster are top 10.

I don't think TFM was a reinvention, was more a continuation of the Fame, ASIB was her real reinvention era.

In Christina career, Stripped was more impactful reinvention.

[Holiest Dreams]

One of, for sure. It’ll always be one of my personal favorite album ever contenders 

[TeemoR]

Absolutely.

[Alexz]

1 hour ago, alexrex said:

I was like 4 yo when this album came out. In retrospective (From what I've read and seen about it now) , I would say that was a pivotal point in Madonna's career to transform into a more centered and focused artist. And that she would be inspired to take her creativity to another level, like other artists have done in the past. 

 

I think ROL is an amazing record (In my opinion it's her best). It's grounded, experimental, focused and solid. The lyrics are deep and honest. The production is well executed and forward thinking.  But I don't understand why she screw everything she achieved with it to go and chase the pop trends that came afterwards. The next albums don't come any close so I don't know what happened to Madonna. What made her headspace change so drastically ?

 

So yeah, it's an important reinvention, but it didn't have a long lasting impact in her own career. 

Music created the folktronica genre she didn't follow trends.

[LOTF]

1 hour ago, alexrex said:

I was like 4 yo when this album came out. In retrospective (From what I've read and seen about it now) , I would say that was a pivotal point in Madonna's career to transform into a more centered and focused artist. And that she would be inspired to take her creativity to another level, like other artists have done in the past. 

 

I think ROL is an amazing record (In my opinion it's her best). It's grounded, experimental, focused and solid. The lyrics are deep and honest. The production is well executed and forward thinking.  But I don't understand why she screw everything she achieved with it to go and chase the pop trends that came afterwards. The next albums don't come any close so I don't know what happened to Madonna. What made her headspace change so drastically ?

 

So yeah, it's an important reinvention, but it didn't have a long lasting impact in her own career. 

You're talking as if she went from Ray of Light directly into Hard Candy lmao

 

I think it's highly underestimated how much negative impact the Erotica/SEX backlash had in her psychology. While she remained defiant and put up a strong front, deep down it shook her and made her feel underappreciated. This is why when she received an award some time between Bedtime Stories and Evita (I think) from the hands of no other than Tony Bennett, she said despite everyone focusing on everything else, for her it's always been about the music. So coming out of that, she found a new spirituality and became a mother, and this serious Mother Earth persona felt necessary for her. But it wasn't really what satisfied her needs as a thought provoking provocateur. But she held on, she married a quite conservative man and played the part. Once that marriage was over, she realized it wasn't her thing so she got back to her controversial self. It's not that it didn't have an impact on her, it's just that she found out it wasn't her thing.

I also think the root of much, if not all, the criticisms thrown her way since 2008 onwards are deeply rooted in misogyny and the expectations we have as a society for a woman of her age and how she should present herself. 

[slw84]

1 hour ago, Link16 said:

I don't think TFM was a reinvention, was more a continuation of the Fame, ASIB was her real reinvention era.

In Christina career, Stripped was more impactful reinvention.

Well, Stripped was a harsh reinvention that worked for and against her which is why I didn't list it.

I see your point with TFM. For me, it seems like two different Gagas. FM was a dance pop diva and TFM was the artistic experimentation of high art esoteric dimensions.

[Xtripped]

Yess. Frozen is still the best song ever created. Imagine taking that huge risk, a slow 6 minute song, dark video and a popular blonde popstar with black hair. Only the queen of pop.