thirdward Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Badgalbriel said: Because she generates way more than 1B. Her tour alone will generate at least 5 Billion from tour tickets, merch sales, hotel bookings, local restaurants, etc. billions to companies that will not pay their employees correctly
mrpartyrocker Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 She earned 1b but she contributed to the world’s economy with more billions. I guess it’s a win-win as working as a musician (successful) always has a boomerang effect. It does not only sustain your own career, but it also sustains other people’s careers. 1 1
poki Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 Last month we had people defending anti-labor acts in defense of Taylor's TVs, now we are defending the concept of billionaires in defense of Taylor. Y'all I like her music but this ain't it.
Trent W Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 Yes and it’s okay to be a billionaire if you didn’t exploit anyone The real problem is that no one should starve or have no shelter, all basics should be covered for everyone in the planet. The problem is not how much person can make but what the most vulnerable have to suffer for that.
Feanor Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 No, no one should be a billionaire. They all deserve criticism and a high af tax for their personal wealth.
glitch Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 I think if a single person is making a billion dollars from a tour then either the other people who worked on the tour aren't being paid enough, or the tickets were too expensive 3
ItsJustMe. Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 yes, because people are clearly willing to spend that amount of money on the person 1
AMIT Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Trent W said: Yes and it’s okay to be a billionaire if you didn’t exploit anyone The real problem is that no one should starve or have no shelter, all basics should be covered for everyone in the planet. The problem is not how much person can make but what the most vulnerable have to suffer for that. The thing is that the same system that creates wealth also creates poverty. You cannot have a bunch of billionaires without millions of other people (and the environment!) suffering at the same time. You cannot be against poverty if you're also pro-billionaire/wealth hoarding because you can't have one without the other. Capitalism creates poverty, it is by design, not a bug in the system. Edited December 13, 2023 by AMIT 1 4
Rep2000 Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 Suddenly ATRL turns into Karl Marx Social Club just because of Taylor Swift. And they dare say she has no impact. 1 1
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted December 13, 2023 ATRL Moderator Posted December 13, 2023 36 minutes ago, Goaty said: Yes but aren’t most billionaires deemed as such due to stock / company valuations? While I agree that the existence of billionaires is a moral dilemma regardless of how “ethical” the capital is generated, there’s a difference between Taylor’s assumed revenue streams and Zuckerberg having billions in unrealized capital gains. It's such a semantic point that I do not understand the point in arguing it. The tax codes are designed to keep the wealthy rich as hell. She might pay more in taxes than other billionaires, sure, let's just go with that. In any case, it does not matter because Taylor will pay her taxes and still own more wealth than any one person should be able to. Using this as a defense of her billionaire status is so silly.
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted December 13, 2023 ATRL Moderator Posted December 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, Rep2000 said: Suddenly ATRL turns into Karl Marx Social Club just because of Taylor Swift. And they dare say she has no impact. There's a lot of anti-billionaire conversations on this forum and the world at large. Taylor didn't suddenly invent the notion of being anti-billionaire. 1
tellem Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 If you're going to argue that billionaires are unethical you shouldn't exclude Taylor "because she's a musician". Her contributions didn't generate $1B, which is the case with every other billionaire
Goaty Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, Bloo said: It's such a semantic point that I do not understand the point in arguing it. The tax codes are designed to keep the wealthy rich as hell. She might pay more in taxes than other billionaires, sure, let's just go with that. In any case, it does not matter because Taylor will pay her taxes and still own more wealth than any one person should be able to. Using this as a defense of her billionaire status is so silly. I’m not defending her status as a billionaire. In the post you quoted, I say being a billionaire is a problem regardless of the origin of the capital. I’m merely providing some context I think these discussions require. 1
magazine Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 No, period. Rich people take advantage of the system and they must be stopped. The system makes it so every time they get money, someone else in the other side gets less money 2
WildHeart Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 57 minutes ago, AMIT said: What exactly are you basing this on? History...
Archetype Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 I’d rather it be a pop artist that makes immeasurable amounts of people feel something rather than an oil oligarch.
AMIT Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 1 minute ago, WildHeart said: History... Not really. There are millions of people doing essential work every day (cleaning, construction, food, even scientific and reproductive labor) that often gets devalued and even not credited period. They are not doing those to earn profits. Artists are not creating art out of wanting to make a profit. Such rhetoric is born out of the conservative notion that without some guy at the top telling others what to do or what to produce society would collapse when... society was doing fine before capitalism (and before that other hierarchical economical systems like mercantilism/feudalism) came into place. Sure there was misery and poverty, but it was nothing compared to the misery and violence brought upon with the advent of global capitalism. Capitalists don't produce anything, they simply own the means of production so other people are forced to work for them for their own subsistence. 6
ttsmu Posted December 13, 2023 Author Posted December 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Badgalbriel said: but her work IS more important than others. what sort of question is this? 2 hours ago, Badgalbriel said: you need to learn how to read. damn.... Sure, Jan.
Trent W Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 1 hour ago, AMIT said: The thing is that the same system that creates wealth also creates poverty. You cannot have a bunch of billionaires without millions of other people (and the environment!) suffering at the same time. You cannot be against poverty if you're also pro-billionaire/wealth hoarding because you can't have one without the other. Capitalism creates poverty, it is by design, not a bug in the system. But it is posible to have some form of capitalism without anyone having to starve, For example in the US if you cut the military budget you can erase poverty. But I do agree that in the current system it’s impossible to eradicate poverty. It is designed ti make some poor But it can definitely be changed
alexrex Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 Taylor is a good example, but it's not only about her. It's about each one of the musicians, politics, business people who earns obscene amounts of money. That's crystal clear how the system doesn't work the way it's established. It always benefits the people on top and takes away a lot from the people who do the actual work. Also, how is it possible that a musician earns a billion, and thousands of doctors don't even get the minimum wage when they save lives every single f day. 3
Kasix Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 Yes because all you’ll would sold are tickets
MonsterTown Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 in other words its okay for a musician to be successful because people like their product=music and there is demand? well yes. duh...its okay to create a product and people like it that much to make them billionare because the demand is big. what do you want? steal money from them o a law to make them stop being successful.
Frozen99 Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 it's not just her, sportspersons earn too much money... it's a social problem, there should be no billionaires, the price scissors are wider and wider..
Frozen99 Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 16 minutes ago, alexrex said: Taylor is a good example, but it's not only about her. It's about each one of the musicians, politics, business people who earns obscene amounts of money. That's crystal clear how the system doesn't work the way it's established. It always benefits the people on top and takes away a lot from the people who do the actual work. Also, how is it possible that a musician earns a billion, and thousands of doctors don't even get the minimum wage when they save lives every single f day. yeah, capitalism.
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