swissman Posted December 11, 2023 Posted December 11, 2023 3 hours ago, Phaunzie said: MJ, Tina Turner, Madonna, Janet, Arashi, Perfume, Paula Abdul ( This performance destroys all of her performance). Performers are more about immersion and combination of all elements. While I love Beyonce as a performer, she isn't in the top 5 of the best performer, maybe top 15. You don't need to sing live to be a great performer, singing is only 1/5 of performing. How can you argue that a performer is "more about immersion and combination of all elements" but cite a performance where live singing is not part of the equation at all? Even if singing talent was just 1/5 of what you need for a truly great performance (I'd say it's at least 1/3 [singing, dancing, charisma]), does this performance even make it 1/10 about singing? I love Paula, but the example is odd. We have videos of Beyoncé being lifted too when she's not tasked with singing live. One can say you don't "need" to sing live to be a great performer and I would agree, but singing live undoubtedly pushes you ahead of those who do not. I think if we are talking about performances as needing to combine a certain amount of elements, there's really no one greater than Beyoncé, who has the soulful power of an Aretha or Whitney, the pristine, sophisticated dynamism of a Diana or Donna, the dancing gusto of a Janet or Tina, the balladry of a Mariah or Céline, and the artful statement-making of a Madonna or Michael Jackson, PLUS her own unique Beyoncé blend of high-femme pin-up charisma, elegance mixed with swagger, exuberant energy and her trademark vocal runs, and overall commitment to conceptual and creative excellence. Beyond her own repertoire, Beyoncé is unique because she really is a student first and foremost, and is able to channel people in her performances as differing as Diana Ross and Etta James, brilliantly cover Stevie Wonder, Barbra Streisand, Prince, or even an Andrew Lloyd Weber song, as well as put her own spin on reggae classics, Broadway classics, gospel, pop, disco, jazz, funk, pop, soul, R&B, house, etc. etc. etc. If anyone embodies the idea of "immersion and combination of all elements", it's Beyoncé. 2 1
flashfox Posted December 11, 2023 Posted December 11, 2023 Babes, the year is 2023, and Beyonce is the greatest performer of all time. No one is at her level, I fear 1
Phaunzie Posted December 11, 2023 Posted December 11, 2023 28 minutes ago, swissman said: How can you argue that a performer is "more about immersion and combination of all elements" but cite a performance where live singing is not part of the equation at all? Even if singing talent was just 1/5 of what you need for a truly great performance (I'd say it's at least 1/3 [singing, dancing, charisma]), does this performance even make it 1/10 about singing? I love Paula, but the example is odd. We have videos of Beyoncé being lifted too when she's not tasked with singing live [2]. One can say you don't "need" to sing live to be a great performer and I would agree, but singing live undoubtedly pushes you ahead of those who do not. I think if we are talking about performances as needing to combine a certain amount of elements, there's really no one greater than Beyoncé, who has the soulful power of an Aretha or Whitney, the pristine, sophisticated dynamism of a Diana or Donna, the dancing gusto of a Janet or Tina, the balladry of a Mariah or Céline, and the artful statement-making of a Madonna or Michael Jackson, PLUS her own unique Beyoncé blend of high-femme pin-up charisma, elegance mixed with swagger, exuberant energy and her trademark vocal runs, and overall commitment to conceptual and creative excellence. Beyond her own repertoire, Beyoncé is unique because she really is a student first and foremost, and is able to channel people in her performances as differing as Diana Ross and Etta James, brilliantly cover Stevie Wonder, Barbra Streisand, Prince, or even an Andrew Lloyd Weber song, as well as put her own spin on reggae classics, Broadway classics, gospel, pop, disco, jazz, funk, pop, soul, R&B, house, etc. etc. etc. If anyone embodies the idea of "immersion and combination of all elements", it's Beyoncé. [1] never said she wasn't. She just isn't the best performer and didn't embody as well as others. Ok a lot of artists get lifted, however does she do it as flawless as Paula during that performance. No Janet, MJ, Madonna like Beyonce lip-sync during their performances. Vocals don't factor that much into performing, because if it did, we would be seeing Madame Butterfly somewhere at top. Beyonce is unique sure, but for someone that has numerous plagiarism accusation for some of her performances. Compared to the rest, she is not that unique. A lot of her movement either come from those before her i.e Tina Turner, Janet, certainly not Mariah, James Brown, and some of Amerie from her debut. Ok Savannah
swissman Posted December 11, 2023 Posted December 11, 2023 11 minutes ago, Phaunzie said: never said she wasn't. She just isn't the best performer and didn't embody as well as others. Ok a lot of artists get lifted, however does she do it as flawless as Paula during that performance. No Janet, MJ, Madonna like Beyonce lip-sync during their performances. Vocals don't factor that much into performing, because if it did, we would be seeing Madame Butterfly somewhere at top. Beyonce is unique sure, but for someone that has numerous plagiarism accusation for some of her performances. Compared to the rest, she is not that unique. A lot of her movement either come from those before her i.e Tina Turner, Janet, certainly not Mariah, James Brown, and some of Amerie from her debut. Ok Savannah I didn't write anything about the uniqueness of Beyoncé's stagings (that you wish to say she plagiarizes), I wrote about the uniqueness of her as a performer as it points to her skill level, which is mainly what this topic is about. And even if this thing about plaigarism were the case (it's not, there's been a handful of times and that has been so for just about every big performer as pop is about references as much as it is about uniqueness), I'm not sure how this makes her a weaker performer. Michael Jackson plagiarized the moonwalk. Is he a bad performer? Also yes Beyoncé as well as others lip-sync for certain performances. There is a difference between lip-sycing because your singing talent isn't consistent enough to do a good live performance, and choosing it for other reasons. I do not think you need to have sung live 100% of the time of your entire career to cite live singing as one of your skills. Even most vocal legends have lip-synced at one point or another.
UnderratedVocalist Posted December 11, 2023 Posted December 11, 2023 Some artists excel at dancing, other artists excel at energy, others excel in vocals. It's very rare to find an entertainer that excels in ALL aspects. And Beyonce does. Her rhythm is unmatched, her energy is off the scale, her vocals are stellar and her stamina is incredible. Y'all will probably laugh and mock, but the only entertainer/performer that can match Beyonce when it comes to stage/live performing is Nicole Scherzinger. 1
ArtForFreedom Posted December 11, 2023 Posted December 11, 2023 Maybe behind Madonna, MJ, Prince and Tina
Tylerbv Posted December 11, 2023 Posted December 11, 2023 She can’t touch Michael or Tina. Madonna’s up there. Of today’s era, I say P!nk’s better considering her multitude of talents and consistent live vocals. 2
Kassi Posted December 11, 2023 Posted December 11, 2023 9 minutes ago, ArtForFreedom said: Maybe behind Madonna, MJ, Prince and Tina She’s already amalgamated each other their performance styles into her own. Keep up! If they were good individually, she is better for having combined them. 1 1 1 1
swissman Posted December 11, 2023 Posted December 11, 2023 33 minutes ago, UnderratedVocalist said: Some artists excel at dancing, other artists excel at energy, others excel in vocals. It's very rare to find an entertainer that excels in ALL aspects. And Beyonce does. Her rhythm is unmatched, her energy is off the scale, her vocals are stellar and her stamina is incredible. Y'all will probably laugh and mock, but the only entertainer/performer that can match Beyonce when it comes to stage/live performing is Nicole Scherzinger. I've long held that (at least in her generation) the only person who matches Beyoncé's skillset is Nicole Scherzinger. The only difference, imo, is that she doesn't quite have that same charisma that Beyoncé has, there's some factor that doesn't give the same stadium-filling exuberance that she can with just one stare. Obviously Nicole has charisma though, it just doesn't quite translate the same way. 1
Bhabylon Posted December 11, 2023 Posted December 11, 2023 Undoubtedly. I wouldn't put her above Michael or Prince though
Mystic Boy Posted December 11, 2023 Posted December 11, 2023 2 hours ago, Kassi said: She’s already amalgamated each other their performance styles into her own. Keep up! If they were good individually, she is better for having combined them. It's true though. She's like the combination of all these beasts
Dr. Alexander Posted December 12, 2023 Posted December 12, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, Raptus said: Not the girl that destroyed her own career with 1 performance After that night she became a laughing stock, kinda like Katy durning Witness. First of all, they laughed at her simply because of her weight gain. You’re talking about peak MTV when the way you looked meant more than anything. A time where actual singers on the records were deemed “too ugly” or “too fat” to be in their own music video… Edited December 12, 2023 by Dr. Alexander
Dr. Alexander Posted December 12, 2023 Posted December 12, 2023 Beyonce couldn’t do the Rhythm Nation Tour so I’m going to go with Janet. F*** what I said earlier The NJS era wasn’t for the weak. 1
NOW Posted December 12, 2023 Posted December 12, 2023 One of the greatest for sure but what cannot be disputed is there hasn't been a better performer since she debuted.
Xtina23 Posted December 12, 2023 Posted December 12, 2023 (edited) Well... in her last tour, she reduced her choreography drastically, relying on buses of dancers & production. So she may have dropped a couple of dozen spots. Top 30, maybe? Imo. Edited December 12, 2023 by Xtina23 1 9
Chris Posted December 12, 2023 Posted December 12, 2023 6 hours ago, swissman said: the only person who matches Beyoncé's skillset is Nicole Scherzinger Really?
Chris Posted December 12, 2023 Posted December 12, 2023 Why do people always mention MJ, Janet, Madonna, Prince and etc....but never mention Taylor, Katy, Rihanna, Dua Lipa, Pink, Xtina..... Hm?
Alexz Posted December 12, 2023 Posted December 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, Chris said: Why do people always mention MJ, Janet, Madonna, Prince and etc....but never mention Taylor, Katy, Rihanna, Dua Lipa, Pink, Xtina..... Hm? Because from those six five are below average performers.
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