news Russian police starts raids on gay clubs after LGBT ban

[brazil]

But islamaphobes told me it's Muslims in western Europe that are taking away LGBT rights

[A.R.L]

4 minutes ago, brazil said:

But islamaphobes told me it's Muslims in western Europe that are taking away LGBT rights

Since when is Russia considered Western Europe?

[brazil]

2 minutes ago, A.R.L said:

Since when is Russia considered Western Europe?

That's my point. They are also not subject to any increased migration from Muslim majority countries, and if they were that's certainly not what is dictating their policy, yet homophobia is rampant and gay rights under attack

[A.R.L]

55 minutes ago, brazil said:

That's my point. They are also not subject to any increased migration from Muslim majority countries, and if they were that's certainly not what is dictating their policy, yet homophobia is rampant and gay rights under attack

They aren’t subject to mass migration because no one wants to migrate to Russia, where human rights in general and not just the rights of homosexuals are being violated. But the irony that if you ask any homophobic migrant you defend, to choose who they prefer, they would choose Russia over any western country while they put their ass in a Western European country, even when they were forced to migrate due to Russian bombs just because Russia is not in favor of the rights of homosexuals.

 

The point is certain migrants who are a threat to homosexuals and freedom in the EU really has nothing to do with Russia being another homophobe added to the list.

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by A.R.L

[Communion]

3 hours ago, A.R.L said:

The point is certain migrants who are a threat to homosexuals and freedom in the EU really has nothing to do with Russia being another homophobe added to the list.

This is odd, as it seems to deny the epistemological connections between right-wing ideologies: misogyny, homophobia, nationalism, xenophobia.

 

Surely you can't ignore that it is the *least* diverse nations in Europe who are often the most homophobic? 

Why try and deny this when there's a clear through-line of scapegoating "others" for class-based problems by elites, as witnessed in Orban's Hungary or Putin's Russia? Countries like Poland or Ukraine or are objectively more homophobic than the melting pots of the streets of London or Barcelona. 

 

This is often the frustration with liberalism - liberals can recognize problems, but by the failures of their worldview and ideology, don't actually have any understanding of how to solve such at their root. I mean, we were literally told that free market capitalism would liberalize and bring about societal change to Russia and well... lol didn't work!

 

That's often the problem leftists and liberals find themselves arguing over with regards to societal conflict: liberals want to pretend these problems are not societal and you can just deport it away (hard to do when Russia reminds us that homophobia is as inherent to European-ness as it is to any other collective of people), while leftists are interested in solving the material causes of homophobia, racism, etc. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Communion

[Anthinos]

4 hours ago, A.R.L said:

The point is certain migrants who are a threat to homosexuals and freedom in the EU really has nothing to do with Russia being another homophobe added to the list.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to minimize the problems that have arisen in Europe as a result of wrong immigration and integration policies, but at the moment it is not the migrants who are a problem for our freedom and our rights. Many gays in this forum downplay right-wing extremism. Politicians and parties such as PiS, Orban, AfD, Vox etc. are against our rights, our freedom and also find the Russian model better than the Western one. People with a migration background should not be lumped together. I know many people who were born abroad and are not homophobic.

[PoisonPill]

I pray that the Russian people - even the ones who are anti-gay but still have human decency - will push back on this horrifying Nazi-esque persecution.

[Cloudy]

The state of Russia is so so sad and the saddest part is that there doesn't seem to be a glimpse of change for it's good people.

[A.R.L]

14 hours ago, Anthinos said:

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to minimize the problems that have arisen in Europe as a result of wrong immigration and integration policies, but at the moment it is not the migrants who are a problem for our freedom and our rights. Many gays in this forum downplay right-wing extremism. Politicians and parties such as PiS, Orban, AfD, Vox etc. are against our rights, our freedom and also find the Russian model better than the Western one. People with a migration background should not be lumped together. I know many people who were born abroad and are not homophobic.

I totally agree with you about the far-right politics. I don't support that at all, starting with vox in my country. However, to claim that conservative migrants are not a problem, that is the mistake that the left wing has been making in so many Western countries.

[A.R.L]

16 hours ago, Communion said:

This is odd, as it seems to deny the epistemological connections between right-wing ideologies: misogyny, homophobia, nationalism, xenophobia.

 

Countries like Poland or Ukraine or are objectively more homophobic than the melting pots of the streets of London or Barcelona. 

 

 

Because each country is different in the way they treat homophobia and also whether or not there is a massive gay culture. Therefore, let's say that a city like Barcelona can be a gay paradise.

 

But none of that has anything to do with the agenda of some conservative migrants that is clearly seen in some Western countries.

 

I mean, racism can be exposed to anyone, but the fact that there are selective migrants when it comes to this issue will tell you that it isn’t racism, it’s a real problem (and when I talk about selective migrants, I refer to  individuals, not ethnicity or all those who come from that same country)

[Communion]

6 hours ago, A.R.L said:

Because each country is different in the way they treat homophobia and also whether or not there is a massive gay culture. Therefore, let's say that a city like Barcelona can be a gay paradise.

 

But none of that has anything to do with the agenda of some conservative migrants that is clearly seen in some Western countries.

 

I mean, racism can be exposed to anyone, but the fact that there are selective migrants when it comes to this issue will tell you that it isn’t racism, it’s a real problem (and when I talk about selective migrants, I refer to  individuals, not ethnicity or all those who come from that same country)

Again, I'm not sure why you're ignoring the point provided. Can you give an example of an ethnically and culturally diverse country where homophobia is rampant? This is not to say racial diversity fixes homophobia, but a society that engages with racism or nativism head-on instead of scapegoating minorities is then better prepared to critically examine when sexual minorities are the target of said scapegoating. 

 

I don't think you're being honest with yourself or me here. 

 

Wilders explicitly calls out Morroccans as at odds with Dutch society and calls for blanket limits on migration for all Morroccans. Haven't you written at length about the mistreatment Berbers have faced under Islam? What makes you think Wilders doesn't consider Morroccan Berbers as part of the group he wants to vilify and ensure aren't allowed in Europe anymore?