celeb news US poll: Beyonce is the 2nd most popular and well-liked public figure

[Raspberries]

1 hour ago, réveuse said:

Beyonce is a skilled songwriter, producer, and an overall talented person. She's better than Taylor in all of these skills, even at songwriting.

y'all doing drugs on Thanksgiving?

[rac7d]

On 11/22/2023 at 10:19 PM, SignificantOther said:

The fact that you're so proud of a bland blonde white woman being #1 over a proud black woman is an ugly look. 

The whole thread is giving attention seekers and that is not Beyoncé 

[réveuse]

34 minutes ago, Raspberries said:

y'all doing drugs on Thanksgiving?

Doesn't make literal facts false lol.

[Raspberries]

Just now, réveuse said:

Doesn't make literal facts false lol.

Beyoncé is not an acclaimed songwriter no matter how much you want her to be. She is an incredible vocalist, performer, dancer, etc. and has one of the most acclaimed catalogs of any mainstream artist ever. It is okay to admit that Beyonce has weaknesses, just like every pop star ever born. She doesn't need to be a better songwriter than Taylor (she isn't and nobody outside the Hive will say she is). She excels in many other areas and has gotten by just fine without actually being a songwriter 

[JonginBey]

That’s my mother.

 

[Titanbaddie]

10 hours ago, Anvarie said:

This doesn’t make sense because Beyonce has written, produced, and played instruments. Playing a guitar/piano okay isn’t as impressive as having one of if not the best vocals in the music industry. 

This is true, i agree with this statement. Also who cares if you wrote it if the results are bland and unimaginative. 

[mrpartyrocker]

On 11/23/2023 at 3:08 AM, Bears01 said:

Petty gays are some of the worst people alive

Swifties in general. They’re so full of themselves 

[mrpartyrocker]

3 hours ago, Raspberries said:

Beyoncé is not an acclaimed songwriter no matter how much you want her to be. She is an incredible vocalist, performer, dancer, etc. and has one of the most acclaimed catalogs of any mainstream artist ever. It is okay to admit that Beyonce has weaknesses, just like every pop star ever born. She doesn't need to be a better songwriter than Taylor (she isn't and nobody outside the Hive will say she is). She excels in many other areas and has gotten by just fine without actually being a songwriter 

And how do you know this? She’s credited as a songwriter on her songs, but how do you know how much she’s written? 

[MoonGoodandHappy]

So Taylor is #1 

[Rihannito]

14 hours ago, Artistofthedecade said:

I know artists composing or producing their own songs is a foreign concept for you considering who you stan but some of our faves produce their own music too. The result of multi-talent 

 

Talent is really a foreign concept for you, isn't it 

I know music theory is a foreign concept for you, the proof is you can’t even make the difference between instruments and instrumentals, the later being music with no vocals. But hey, you stan a karaoke singer with 1 octave under her belt. 
 

[Bey'Knight]

1 hour ago, MoonGoodandHappy said:

So Taylor is #1 

So why are you here? 

[MoonGoodandHappy]

32 minutes ago, Bey'Knight said:

So why are you here? 

gurl I love Beyoncé but we can celebrate both 

[Bey'Knight]

3 hours ago, MoonGoodandHappy said:

gurl I love Beyoncé but we can celebrate both 

I hope you kept this energy in that other thread. 

[satellites.™]

23 hours ago, Thor said:

Always a bridesmaid, never the bride. Congrats!

Meanwhile Beyonce is married and Taylor is on her 1000th dick. 

[C-Amber]

On 11/23/2023 at 7:19 AM, SignificantOther said:

The fact that you're so proud of a bland blonde white woman being #1 over a proud black woman is an ugly look. 

Not you being racist. 

[swissman]

13 hours ago, Raspberries said:

Beyoncé is not an acclaimed songwriter no matter how much you want her to be. She is an incredible vocalist, performer, dancer, etc. and has one of the most acclaimed catalogs of any mainstream artist ever. It is okay to admit that Beyonce has weaknesses, just like every pop star ever born. She doesn't need to be a better songwriter than Taylor (she isn't and nobody outside the Hive will say she is). She excels in many other areas and has gotten by just fine without actually being a songwriter 

I would agree that Beyoncé is not an "acclaimed songwriter" in the sense that she is not known as a songwriter by the public, nor is it in her list of qualities that people usually list when citing her greatness due in part to it being overlooked as well as general ignorance and false claims taking precedence in people's minds over legit facts, but that does not necessarily translate to songwriting being a "weakness".

 

You say she's done well "without actually being a songwriter" but are ignoring (or perhaps you didn't know) that some of the biggest songs in pop history were written by Beyoncé herself, with other writing credits given to producers or co-writers who came in at the end and added a few words (the same thing people claim invalidates Beyoncé from other co-writing credits, so if that logic is followed, then these are 'self-written' songs).

 

• Independent Women was written by Beyoncé and peaked on the Billboard Hot 100 for 11 consecutive weeks.
• Before Jumpin' Jumpin' was a hit, it was an instrumental mistakenly given to Matthew Knowles, who then gave it to Beyoncé, who then wrote the song and sent it back to the producer who intended the track to be used on a rap song but who had no choice but to give it to Destiny's Child once he heard what a good result Beyoncé made.
• Formation was a pre-written song, but as confirmed by the original writers, it was Beyoncé who wrote the verses which give the song almost the entirety of its motivations. Without them, it would be a generic female-empowerment song. With them, Beyoncé clearly outlines her motive of Black feminism, outlining her geographical history, notions of Black pride in appearance, and citations of several of her family members. Formation has since become a very acclaimed pop song/moment.
• Then there are examples like Crazy in Love where she didn't necessarily write the whole thing, but wrote the bridge instead which itself is an iconic part of the song.

[queenoftheclouds]

On 11/23/2023 at 4:22 AM, Planet Mars said:

I remember a couple years ago when Beyoncé was the center of every overrated and overhyped discussion. She felt so ridiculously polarizing despite her popularity.

 

I've noticed now people don't mind her as much, and she's pretty well liked.

 

I think Taylor is currently in her "overrated/overhyped" era and it's earned Beyoncé some points

Taylor releases too much Music. After TS11 and the Tour and the re-records and Superbowl she should Take a Break. It helped that Beyoncé Took some time Off and came Back stronger.

[swissman]

9 hours ago, C-Amber said:

Not you being racist. 

While that was worded rudely, to call it racist to point out that a white woman being more liked than a black woman in America is nothing entirely surprising or to be especially proud of still is true and it is not racist to point out racism.

 

If we look at all the female soloists who have spent the most time charting on the Billboard 200, only blonde white women have achieved 1000+ weeks (Taylor, Barbra, Madonna, Adele). Do you think it's pure coincidence, or that American society, through centuries of lawful and then accepted racism, prefers certain types of women over others?

 

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by swissman

[Raspberries]

18 hours ago, mrpartyrocker said:

And how do you know this? She’s credited as a songwriter on her songs, but how do you know how much she’s written? 

Because there are a good number of demos from her albums that are identical to her finished version. Change a word, get a third is common practice. We all know she does it. It's just the Hive who refuse to accept it and move on. Beyoncé is one of the greatest entertainers in the history of music and she has a long list of talents. Accepting defeat on songwriting does not matter in the long run, but instead ridiculous claims are made like the one I responded to

[Raspberries]

8 hours ago, swissman said:

I would agree that Beyoncé is not an "acclaimed songwriter" in the sense that she is not known as a songwriter by the public, nor is it in her list of qualities that people usually list when citing her greatness due in part to it being overlooked as well as general ignorance and false claims taking precedence in people's minds over legit facts, but that does not necessarily translate to songwriting being a "weakness".

 

You say she's done well "without actually being a songwriter" but are ignoring (or perhaps you didn't know) that some of the biggest songs in pop history were written by Beyoncé herself, with other writing credits given to producers or co-writers who came in at the end and added a few words (the same thing people claim invalidates Beyoncé from other co-writing credits, so if that logic is followed, then these are 'self-written' songs).

 

• Independent Women was written by Beyoncé and peaked on the Billboard Hot 100 for 11 consecutive weeks.
• Before Jumpin' Jumpin' was a hit, it was an instrumental mistakenly given to Matthew Knowles, who then gave it to Beyoncé, who then wrote the song and sent it back to the producer who intended the track to be used on a rap song but who had no choice but to give it to Destiny's Child once he heard what a good result Beyoncé made.
• Formation was a pre-written song, but as confirmed by the original writers, it was Beyoncé who wrote the verses which give the song almost the entirety of its motivations. Without them, it would be a generic female-empowerment song. With them, Beyoncé clearly outlines her motive of Black feminism, outlining her geographical history, notions of Black pride in appearance, and citations of several of her family members. Formation has since become a very acclaimed pop song/moment.
• Then there are examples like Crazy in Love where she didn't necessarily write the whole thing, but wrote the bridge instead which itself is an iconic part of the song.

The Hive lashed earlier for someone pulling receipts from B'Day/IASF and you're going all the way back to DC  

 

There are entire demos that are 100% identical to the finished product or close to it. Various artists talking about how they wrote x or y. And that is fine. Beyoncé is nowhere near the one who does it 

[Raspberries]

1 minute ago, swissman said:

I am not representing the Hive and all the things they've ever said. I've brought valid receipts which I see you prefer not to comment on, finding an excuse to discard them and/or changing the subject to something that in no way speaks to songwriting ability, like working with others or using songs other people have written.

 

 

The fact remains that she wrote one of the biggest Hot 100 hits of all time. But okay, let's disregard that.

I'm sure Beyonce has contributed to the songwriting process over her career. But, again, a ridiculous claim was made above that simply is not true. Beyoncé is a better vocalist and performer than Taylor, absolutely. But Taylor is a better songwriter and musician. And that is fine 

[swissman]

31 minutes ago, Raspberries said:

The Hive lashed earlier for someone pulling receipts from B'Day/IASF and you're going all the way back to DC  

 

There are entire demos that are 100% identical to the finished product or close to it. Various artists talking about how they wrote x or y. And that is fine. Beyoncé is nowhere near the one who does it 

I am not representing the Hive and all the things they've ever said though.

I've brought valid receipts which you prefer to ignore, finding an excuse to discard them and instead changing the subject to something that in no way speaks to songwriting ability, like working with others or using songs other people have written.

 

 

The fact remains that she wrote one of the biggest Hot 100 hits of all time. But okay, let's disregard that.

[swissman]

7 minutes ago, Raspberries said:

I'm sure Beyonce has contributed to the songwriting process over her career. But, again, a ridiculous claim was made above that simply is not true. Beyoncé is a better vocalist and performer than Taylor, absolutely. But Taylor is a better songwriter and musician. And that is fine 

Sorry I deleted and reposted, so these are out of order now.

 

But back on topic, I was mostly commenting on the idea you brought forward that Beyoncé is not a songwriter. In your words: "She excels in many other areas and has gotten by just fine without actually being a songwriter".

 

And to this I took an issue with because it wasn't about a qualitative comparison, but that you seemed to remove "songwriter" entirely from her list of credentials.

 

To your point here about being sure she has contributed, my point is that no only has she contributed, she has at times done the songwriting of the song herself, to which others then contributed.

 

And if we are to take the idea that her changing a line or two isn't songwriting, then it also isn't when someone else has done the same to her songs. Thus as much as Beyoncé "didn't" write a song she changed a word on, meaning the original writer wrote it themselves, we can say that Beyoncé wrote Independent Women herself.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by swissman

[C-Amber]

11 hours ago, swissman said:

While that was worded rudely, to call it racist to point out that a white woman being more liked than a black woman in America is nothing entirely surprising or to be especially proud of still is true and it is not racist to point out racism.

 

If we look at all the female soloists who have spent the most time charting on the Billboard 200, only blonde white women have achieved 1000+ weeks (Taylor, Barbra, Madonna, Adele). Do you think it's pure coincidence, or that American society, through centuries of lawful and then accepted racism, prefers certain types of women over others?

 

 

It wasn't worded rudely, it was worded in pure racism.

 

"The fact that you're so proud of a black women being #1 over a proud blonde white women is an ugly look."

 

Now don't tell me if someone posted it this way yall won't jump attacking saying how racist. Idk what history you trying to show, racism will still be racism no matter the color. Or you telling me one colored racism is more important then other colored racism?

[swissman]

17 hours ago, C-Amber said:

It wasn't worded rudely, it was worded in pure racism.

 

"The fact that you're so proud of a black women being #1 over a proud blonde white women is an ugly look."

 

Now don't tell me if someone posted it this way yall won't jump attacking saying how racist. Idk what history you trying to show, racism will still be racism no matter the color. Or you telling me one colored racism is more important then other colored racism?

Swapping "Black" and "white" does not result in a 1-to-1 scenario. Thinking so is not looking at the full scope of racism in America. You can pretend you don't know what history I'm "trying to show", though I'm sure you do. If not, I suggest you look into even a fraction of the ways racism against Black people has been part of American culture for hundreds of years.

 

Since white people have not systemically been subjugated either by law, by those in power, or by cultural practice, switching "Black" to "white" in a hypothetical situation cannot exemplify the same effect. Furthermore, alluding to a bias America has for white [blonde] women IS NOT racism. This is what the original poster did. It may have been worded rudely, but the core message was clear: in America the favouritism of white women over Black women makes it so that an individual being "more liked" in a poll than a Black peer isn't fully outside the influence of the racist society the poll was conducted in and thus is not surprising nor something to necessarily brag about at the expense of the #2. Similarly, if it were a conversation about how a woman was the #2 most succesful person in tech, boasting how a man was #1 in a way to reinforce his success over her could have the same reaction, since tech has been a male-dominated industry. It's much the same as the rhetorical "Wanna tell us who the #1 is?" commented here.

 

 

17 hours ago, C-Amber said:

Or you telling me one colored racism is more important than other colored racism?

No, I am telling you that alluding to racism existing in a certain society is not an act of racism. If you can't point to the existence of racism without mentioning who the racism favours, without in turn being called racist, then how can you discuss it at all?
 

Do you think that America does not favour white people? Can you explain why the only women who have spent 1,000+ weeks charting on the Billboard 200 are white [blonde] women? This surely is not the sole indicator of racism, but it speaks to what the buying public likes in excess and consistency.

 

Even within the music industry, we can see this. As many blonde white women have won AOTY at the Grammys in the last decade as Black women have won in the entire Grammys' history. The last (and fourth) Black woman to win was in 1999, nearly 25 years ago. In just the last 15 years, white women have won 2x the amount of AOTY Grammys that Black women have in Grammys' history. Is this another coincidence? Have Black women simply not made worthy enough music, and only ever have four times? This stat mirrors so many others like it. It doesn't exist alone.

 

 

Now, to be clear, Taylor is not #1 for her skin colour alone, of course. If that were the case there would be more ahead of Beyoncé. She is there as much because she is an inoffensive popstar who makes clean, commercial music that relates to fans of many demographics: old and young, Black and white, etc.. I think the point that the commenter was making was that Beyoncé being #2 says a bit more in this case than Taylor being #1, given the difference in their brands, who they appeal to, what demographics they either exclude or anger, etc., especially when bringing up that Taylor was #1 was clearly a way to diminish the conversation about Beyoncé being #2, that as the OP stated, was conveniently left out of the former thread about Taylor being #1.

It's well documented that it's harder to find success, be liked, etc. as a Black woman in America than a white one. If you'd like to disprove this, go ahead, but until then this conversation is not an example of reverse racism.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by swissman