news TikTok in hot water after Osama Bin Laden goes viral

[If U Seek Amy]

6 minutes ago, Marvin said:

I wanna say this is shocking but it isn't unfortunately. American exceptionalism propaganda is constant and really leads people to believe that the US is a perfect country trying to protect the world from bad people. Of course, it doesn't take long to disprove that but most Americans generally don't challenge what they hear from the government... even if it doesn't make any sense  

 

But the US is not a socialist society so what now?

 

Not to mention that "socialist" countries (which is really just democratic socialism) are some of the most peaceful and educated in the world

I actually disagree most Americans generally don't challenge what they hear. At least from my experience IRL and online. Most seem cognizant to some extent regarding what they are being told is not true or at least partially not true or is misleading. They just don't have the time and/or energy to get upset and fight and worry about every little thing. If anyone is going to get upset anytime the government lies to them or misleads them they are going to die an early death from stress. So they don't vocalize everything. What am I really going to do about Biden or Trump or anyone else lying about minor things? Sure complain sometimes but overall just go on with my life

[Gui Blackout]

Gen z lefties are so far gone

[DAP]

30 minutes ago, If U Seek Amy said:

I actually disagree most Americans generally don't challenge what they hear. At least from my experience IRL and online. Most seem cognizant to some extent regarding what they are being told is not true or at least partially not true or is misleading. They just don't have the time and/or energy to get upset and fight and worry about every little thing. If anyone is going to get upset anytime the government lies to them or misleads them they are going to die an early death from stress. So they don't vocalize everything. What am I really going to do about Biden or Trump or anyone else lying about minor things? Sure complain sometimes but overall just go on with my life

Yes and no. They may be instinctive of views they are conditioned to but if they don’t have context to analyze, then these views are not really being challenged. And hence you get some foolish people venerating the empty critiques of a billionaire scion that colluded with the same forces of US imperialism as revolutionary.  

[Gottasadae]

Now they’re praising bin laden a fkn terrorist and murderer…beyond disgusting 

[Komet]

A Chinese spyware app pushing anti-USA content by a literal terrorist and brain-dead tankies eating it up? I'm shocked 

[Shelter]

People going on about siding with him? More like agreeing with some of his points. 

[bijonse]

1 hour ago, CandleGuy said:

Almost like Osama is a terrorist condemning the terrorists in the US government who support the Israeli government terrorists who are fighting the Hamas terrorists.

 

Almost like the world is just a stage for a power struggle between bloodthirsty terrorists.

!! The terrorism of these huge governments is so heinous because they claim themselves as the patrons of order and justice in our society. 
 

The US government needs to just pull out of Palestine and stop supporting Israel I did not think I’d ever see the youth siding with bin Laden jsjdhdksjkss

Edited November 17, 2023 by bijonse

[C-Amber]

The west, especially USA crimes has become so ugly, disgusting and disgraceful till the point people will believe and show OBL and not them.

[ClashAndBurn]

1 hour ago, ForgottenSoul said:

Wont surprise me if people here call Osama bin laden a freedom fighter , like they do Hamas.

Osama Bin Laden would have been called a freedom fight in the US back in the 1980s when our government was arming and training the Mujahideen to fight against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan

[Communion]

1 hour ago, ForgottenSoul said:

Wont surprise me if people here call Osama bin laden a freedom fighter , like they do Hamas.

The irony being, as discussed ih the Israel and Palestine thresd, that this is the reality Western imperialists and Zionist want. 

 

People who get exposed to contradictions in Western propaganda become susceptible to coming into contact with reactionary views, especially when the West works to eliminate secularists and prop up reactionaries. 

 

How many prominent Afghan socialists are there - let alone ones with platforms in America - to point out that OBL's words expressing sympathy for Palestinians were disingenuous and not true? How many people are there to tell of OBL being a rich Saudi failson whose families capitalist riches funded his journey to religious fundamentalist and maniac? And that so often pan-Islamism has been the tool of choice to destroy secular movements with socialist characteristics? I mean, even the US tried to bury the support it gave to OBL as a proud freedom fighter decades ago. 

 

*US funds Islamists to fight against secularists who sided with the Soviet Union* -> *US shocked and angered that then said Islamists view jihad and terrorism as goals in their new positions of power*

 

*Israel funds Islamists because they believed religious leaders would be more peaceful and weaken a secular pan-Arab nationalism growing amongst Palestinian revolutionaries* -> *Israel shocked and angered that then said Islamists view terrorism as goals in their new positions of power*

 

In actuality, Hamas are not like al-Qaeda because they're simply not Islamists in the way al-Qaeda or even the Taliban are. The kind of sectarian violence Islamism promotes has been put aside for Palestinian liberation, which is why secular left-wing groups work alongside Hamas despite the latter being driven by religion. 

 

The West has the chance to recognize the material conditions of apartheid Palestinians live under and go "okay this has to stop" and intervene before further radicalization happens. 

 

Israel of course doesn't want this cause they benefit from occupation. So they promote nonsense like "Hamas = ISIS" but no amount of propaganda will convince people their eyes are lying. People see Israel is committing apartheid. If then rejecting being under apartheid makes someone a terrorist, the cache that the label of being a terrorist has will lose meaning (we are likely already at that stage given decades of Western hypocrisy).

 

If everyone is too afraid to speak out for the Palestinian people, don't be shocked when you've pushed people into the hands of literal jihadists and people in an information system as poor as America's get tricked into nonsensical reactionary views. 

 

Why are there more Islamic jihadists () willing to say Palestinians don't deserve to die than US senators?

Edited November 17, 2023 by Communion

[ForgottenSoul]

4 hours ago, BrokenMachine said:

I haven't seen anyone here calling Hamas 'freedom fighters'. Everyone agrees they're doing awful stuff for Israelis and Palestinians 

Lmfao people were in the main Hamas/Isreal thread. 

[Raver]

5 hours ago, BrokenMachine said:

I haven't seen anyone here calling Hamas 'freedom fighters'. Everyone agrees they're doing awful stuff for Israelis and Palestinians 

Like 7 of them jumped me in another thread. They definitely here but oddly quite in this thread 

[tellem]

These are some of the dumbest people in the world. Imagine posting this publicly, face showing and probably name too 

 

 

[qurl]

this conflict has really put a spotlight on how a lot of our discourse is so reactionary instead of bothering to ask and wonder why rhetoric from someone like osama bin laden is reaching people. the take can’t be “HES BAD !!!!! WE SHOULDNT LISTEN TO ANYTHING HE HAS TO SAY !!!!”

 

WHY is it resonating ???? right or wrong, we need to ask ourselves why ??? is it *because* we’ve been lied to about so many other things ??? i’m not endorsing the letter , but really when you look at the israel-palestine conflict and ask yourself WHY palestinians would elect Hamas among many other questions , it becomes a lot less black and white than western media rhetoric of “Hamas bad, Israel good”

[Gui Blackout]

At this point I'm just waiting for the tiktok/tweet "Mein Kampf made some points actually (what mainstream media didn't want you to know)" 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Gui Blackout

[Delirious]

6 hours ago, Shelter said:

People going on about siding with him? More like agreeing with some of his points. 

How is not publicly telling everyone to read his letter and it being life-changing is not siding with him?

 

1 hour ago, qurl said:

this conflict has really put a spotlight on how a lot of our discourse is so reactionary instead of bothering to ask and wonder why rhetoric from someone like osama bin laden is reaching people. the take can’t be “HES BAD !!!!! WE SHOULDNT LISTEN TO ANYTHING HE HAS TO SAY !!!!”

 

WHY is it resonating ???? right or wrong, we need to ask ourselves why ??? is it *because* we’ve been lied to about so many other things ??? i’m not endorsing the letter , but really when you look at the israel-palestine conflict and ask yourself WHY palestinians would elect Hamas among many other questions , it becomes a lot less black and white than western media rhetoric of “Hamas bad, Israel good”

I don't think we should be getting ANY thing from his letter otherwise we'd have people openly supporting people like Osama. Especially when the letter is extremely anti Semitic, homophobic, misogynistic etc. And yes, he is a terrorist so we shouldn't hear anything he has to say.

 

He made the letter because he wanted everyone to hate America and nothing else. He was a rich kid who spoke out against the Saudi Government and got exiled for Saudi Arabia. He blamed the US for tainting the Saudi government and sought out revenge. He wasn’t a victim of US foreign policy. The people he brainwashed were but he wasn’t.

 

Bin Laden's main grievance against the US is that American troops had been stationed in Saudi Arabia during and since the Gulf War. In his opinion, because most of those troops were not Muslim they had no right to set foot in the land of Mecca and Medina (Islam's two holiest cities), and their presence there was thus an abomination to Allah.

[Delirious]

There's a reason why Guardian decided to remove the letter. Because it's a load of bollocks.

 

Not to mention, 90% of the letter is basically criticizing that the US doesn't submit to God, that Americans dare to create a set of laws separate from God's will, that Americans are all complicit for daring to pay taxes to the US government, and it caps off with a demand that the US submit to Islam. 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Delirious

[Delirious]

6 hours ago, Communion said:

The irony being, as discussed ih the Israel and Palestine thresd, that this is the reality Western imperialists and Zionist want. 

 

People who get exposed to contradictions in Western propaganda become susceptible to coming into contact with reactionary views, especially when the West works to eliminate secularists and prop up reactionaries. 

 

How many prominent Afghan socialists are there - let alone ones with platforms in America - to point out that OBL's words expressing sympathy for Palestinians were disingenuous and not true? How many people are there to tell of OBL being a rich Saudi failson whose families capitalist riches funded his journey to religious fundamentalist and maniac? And that so often pan-Islamism has been the tool of choice to destroy secular movements with socialist characteristics? I mean, even the US tried to bury the support it gave to OBL as a proud freedom fighter decades ago. 

 

*US funds Islamists to fight against secularists who sided with the Soviet Union* -> *US shocked and angered that then said Islamists view jihad and terrorism as goals in their new positions of power*

 

*Israel funds Islamists because they believed religious leaders would be more peaceful and weaken a secular pan-Arab nationalism growing amongst Palestinian revolutionaries* -> *Israel shocked and angered that then said Islamists view terrorism as goals in their new positions of power*

 

In actuality, Hamas are not like al-Qaeda because they're simply not Islamists in the way al-Qaeda or even the Taliban are. The kind of sectarian violence Islamism promotes has been put aside for Palestinian liberation, which is why secular left-wing groups work alongside Hamas despite the latter being driven by religion. 

 

The West has the chance to recognize the material conditions of apartheid Palestinians live under and go "okay this has to stop" and intervene before further radicalization happens. 

 

Israel of course doesn't want this cause they benefit from occupation. So they promote nonsense like "Hamas = ISIS" but no amount of propaganda will convince people their eyes are lying. People see Israel is committing apartheid. If then rejecting being under apartheid makes someone a terrorist, the cache that the label of being a terrorist has will lose meaning (we are likely already at that stage given decades of Western hypocrisy).

 

If everyone is too afraid to speak out for the Palestinian people, don't be shocked when you've pushed people into the hands of literal jihadists and people in an information system as poor as America's get tricked into nonsensical reactionary views. 

 

Why are there more Islamic jihadists () willing to say Palestinians don't deserve to die than US senators?

So basically you said a whole of lot of nothing and are justifying the Oct 7 attacks and siding with the Hamas? I'm not surprised at all just like in the other thread.

[Communion]

7 minutes ago, Delirious said:

So basically you said a whole of lot of nothing

Sis, your siding with European neo-nazis in your hatred of Muslims literally makes you the other side of the reactionary coin that holds Islamists.

 

You are literally no different in material impact from the very thing you hate and which your personal grievances are birthed!

 

You are literally a walking example of the harms of reactionary views manifesting in place of material consciousness! 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Communion

[Delirious]

4 minutes ago, Communion said:

Sis, your siding with European neo-nazis in your hatred of Muslims literally makes you the other side of the reactionary coin that holds Islamists.

 

You are literally no different in material impact from the very thing you hate and which your personal grievances are birthed!

 

You are literally a walking example of the harms of reactionary views manifesting in place of material consciousness! 

When have I said I side with the IDF?

[SmittenCake]

It was maybe two TikToks featured his letter to America in a video, and then someone on Twitter picked up on it, blowing it out of proportion to make it appear as though everyone aligned with Osama. This thread is serving braindead boomers because the way everyone thinks now Leftists are siding with known-terrorists is intellectually dishonest and lazy. 

[VOSS]

2 hours ago, SmittenCake said:

It was maybe two TikToks featured his letter to America in a video, and then someone on Twitter picked up on it, blowing it out of proportion to make it appear as though everyone aligned with Osama. This thread is serving braindead boomers because the way everyone thinks now Leftists are siding with known-terrorists is intellectually dishonest and lazy. 

Nope. The letter had already become one of the top trending stories on The Guardian, leading them to take it down, a day before that person tweeted anything about it.

[ZIVERT]

the way the QuranAnon squad on ATRL is flooding the Civics page with random propaganda hit pieces to try and bury this thread  the justified outrage over Osama Bin Laden apologia got y’all working over time today

[Communion]

33 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

the way the QuranAnon squad on ATRL is flooding the Civics page with random propaganda hit pieces to try and bury this thread  the justified outrage over Osama Bin Laden apologia got y’all working over time today

This is worse than the nonsense you spam of anti-Palestine neo-con Twitter reactionaries, tbh! Are you going to share more links to Twitter commentators who say that Gaza deserves to be leveled to the ground or calling for pro-Palestinian activists for be fired from their jobs or posting racist dog whistles against Squad members like Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar?

 

I'm not sure anyone is curious to hear concern from someone who defended Israel's attempted de-population of Gaza and argued it's better for Egypt to simply take in 2.3M refugees than for Israel to simply end their campaign of genocide:

 

 

Half the posts in the last 24 hours are from the Brazilian user who hates black people and the ex-Muslim who says it's fine to deport Muslims out of Europe, both of whom made no counter-argument when engaged with! It's literally just 2 pages of conservative users calling TikTok a Chinese spyware app and refusing to engage with anyone who points out that their characterization of what the left's response will be to the random TikTok trend is not accurate? Why would people post in a thread that they didn't want people to see?

 

Imagine the screeching you would do if someone made random insults involving the Torah. What's the goal of random Islamophobic language intended to mock Muslims in place of any coherent argument? Wild to see someone's radicalization journey into overt racist in real time over 5 years, ATRL user seanoh! You are not a credible voice on this matter and continuing to pretend to be isn't going to work, sis! 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Communion

[State of Grace.]

34 minutes ago, Communion said:

This incoherent rant is worse than the nonsense you constantly spam of anti-Palestine neo-con Twitter reactionaries, tbh! Are you going to share more links to Twitter commentators who say that Gaza deserves to be leveled to the ground? I'm not sure anyone is curious to hear concern from someone who defended Israel's attempted de-population of Gaza and argued it's better for Egypt to simply take in 2.3M refugees than for Israel to simply end their campaign of genocide:

 

 

Half the posts in this thread in the last 24 hours are from the Brazilian user who hates black people and the ex-Muslim who says it's fine to deport Muslims out of Europe, both of whom made no counter-argument when engaged with! What "justified outrage"? It's literally a just 2 pages of ATRL's most conservative users calling TikTok a Chinese spyware app and refusing to engage with anyone who points out they're lying? Why would people post in a thread that they didn't want people to see?

 

Random Islamophobic language intended to mock Muslim users in place of any coherent argument? Wild to see someone's radicalization journey into overt racist in real time over 5 years, ATRL user seanoh!  

Mind you it's the same user who was complaining in the mega thread about not being able to have “meaningful conversations” while throwing around quirky racist dog whistles like "The QuranAnon squad".  

 

No one is buying the facade so I wish they'd just drop it already.