news Trump planning mass deportations, and camps if he wins second term

[Communion]

3 minutes ago, GhostBox said:

More than Trump

Doesn't sound like you have many people convinced!

[YellowRibbon]

America is becoming Gilead quicker than expected...

[AMIT]

4 minutes ago, GhostBox said:

Yes people organize to vote for someone who has the power to appoint cabinet positions, judges ect who control making those decisions or stopping those decisions  💀 aka the president. 

They will do whatever they want while in power and you have no control over it if you only think inside the bounds of the system itself. You have no guarantee that they will implement someone you like, or that that someone will pass something you like, look at Bernie Sanders for example. When it comes down to it they are all corrupted by the system sooner or later. The system and the people in it are not meant to work for you.

[GhostBox]

6 minutes ago, Communion said:

Doesn't sound like you have many people convinced!

It’s not my job to do that. I already know the truth. Not my fault others are too blind to see it. 🤷

[Communion]

5 minutes ago, GhostBox said:

It’s not my job to do that.

I wonder whose it is. He seems to be doing a pretty **** job!

[stevyy]

Concentration Camps in 2024? Gilead much?

[wastedpotential]

I've decided not to post my unhinged rant but I do think it's very dangerous, disingenuous, and pettily spiteful to discourage people from voting. There are two evil candidates on the ballot, but one is unequivocally worse than the other (taking all of the bad things about Biden and promising to do even worse with all of them, and expand to new, more domestic-focused atrocities). Plus, as recent events have shown, state and local elections really do have a great impact on people's quality of life and certainly do matter.

[TeemoR]

1 minute ago, wastedpotential said:

I've decided not to post my unhinged rant but I do think it's very dangerous, disingenuous, and pettily spiteful to discourage people from voting. There are two evil candidates on the ballot, but one is unequivocally worse than the other (taking all of the bad things about Biden and promising to do even worse with all of them, and expand to new, more domestic-focused atrocities). Plus, as recent events have shown, state and local elections really do have a great impact on people's quality of life and certainly do matter.

But is it okay or 'recommended' to be willing to vote for someone who supports genocide, only because the other one is worse? As another member mentioned here, there is no Democracy, it's all a show and they are evil, both sides. Yes, Trump/DeSantis etc. are truly the worst and I would never vote for these people, but I can't blame someone who doesn't want to vote for either of the 2 parties. 

[wastedpotential]

21 minutes ago, TeemoR said:

But is it okay or 'recommended' to be willing to vote for someone who supports genocide, only because the other one is worse? As another member mentioned here, there is no Democracy, it's all a show and they are evil, both sides. Yes, Trump/DeSantis etc. are truly the worst and I would never vote for these people, but I can't blame someone who doesn't want to vote for either of the 2 parties. 

I mean, if someone can live with themselves in the (currently hypothetical) Gilead-America we might end up with if Trump wins the election, then that's their choice.

 

All I know is that I couldn't. As callous as it is, there is no one on the planet who has a vested interest in stopping Israel for the time being. The Americans are obviously bought off, the Europeans are either broadly uninterested (UK or Italy), siding with Israel for historic reasons (Germany), too powerless to do anything meaningful (Ireland or Spain) or trying to look to be the peacemaker for internal prestige and power reasons without having to actually do anything (France, and to some degree Russia), the Chinese haven't seemed to be interested so long as their oil keeps flowing, and the Gulf State governments are all basically picking their economies over the Palestinians (their people strongly disagree, but they don't really have the ability to do anything short of attempt a coup, and the Saudi and Emirati internal security apparatuses are too strong for that). There's no one else who has the ability to actually influence Israel in any meaningful way, as much as some governments in Latin America are trying it's not making a dent and I doubt it will spread much further. There's nothing I've seen to dissuade me from thinking that the only way this stops before a complete annihilation of every single Palestinian is when the American president finally reaches the conclusion that Israel has been too violent and genocidal and steps in - and I think Biden's threshold for genocide is lower than Trump's by at least a few hundred thousand. Plus, what's happened has happened, and what will happen in the next year is pretty much set at this point, so what reason would I have to cast my ballot (directly or indirectly through not voting) for a candidate who will not only make things worse in Palestine but will also make things much worse here in the US? Maybe I'm nihilistic or uncaring, but I do genuinely think that four more years of Biden will be less bad for everyone (including whoever remains in Palestine at that point) than four more years of Trump.

 

I think that choosing to let Trump reign terror for four (or more) years for what are ultimately emotional reasons that won't bring anyone back or stop any deaths for at least a year is short-sighted (and as I said earlier, I think Biden will actually stop this far earlier than Trump would ever bother). I can't mandate how someone else should vote, and I certainly have no love lost for Biden, but I've also not lost sight of the fact that Trump and his entourage in the security apparatus (including men like Jared Kushner and Stephen Miller and Ken Cuccinelli and John Ratcliffe and Bill Gertz) are thirsting for Palestinian blood in a way that does not even begin to compare to Biden's inaction so far. 

Edited November 12, 2023 by wastedpotential

[Bears01]

24 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

I've decided not to post my unhinged rant but I do think it's very dangerous, disingenuous, and pettily spiteful to discourage people from voting. There are two evil candidates on the ballot, but one is unequivocally worse than the other (taking all of the bad things about Biden and promising to do even worse with all of them, and expand to new, more domestic-focused atrocities). Plus, as recent events have shown, state and local elections really do have a great impact on people's quality of life and certainly do matter.

This. State and local elections where real results are happening for people>>>supporting two godawful candidates, one who’s a straight up wannabe dictator. 
 

The ONLY redeeming quality about Biden’s presidency is he won’t appoint Christan nationalists to lifetime appointments to federal court seats, his choices have been relatively good actually 

[ClashAndBurn]

 

[woohoo]

4 hours ago, Communion said:

Do you think that such is materially true for the Palestinians dying under arms sales signed off on by Joe?

I missed a word, I meant me voting for Biden isn’t support THE genocide, it’s me trying to remain out of one of trumps camps. I think what’s happening in Palestine is horrible but I’m not gonna throw myself under the bus and not vote. Selfish, absolutely, but that’s where things are and if it’s my freedoms on the line, I’m choosing myself because I can’t control what happens anywhere else in the world but I can atleast try here. 

[Communion]

17 minutes ago, woohoo said:

I missed a word, I meant me voting for Biden isn’t support THE genocide

No, I get what you were saying, and I'm asking if you think this arbitrary distinction you've made for yourself psychologically will also be true materially for Palestinians? Does telling yourself that your vote will not support genocide change that the candidate you vote for will sign off on the very weapons that leave Palestinian children as amputees or dead? Does lying to yourself change the material impact towards the genocide of the Palestinian people?

 

However, this:

17 minutes ago, woohoo said:

I’m not gonna throw myself under the bus

is the first time a liberal has ever been honest on here. You're acknowledging that voting is motivated by self-interest. You're unapologetically expressing that voting is driven by selfish reasons. Voting is transactional. "I will vote for something because I believe there's something *FOR ME* to gain from doing so". 

 

Odd then for you and others to not understand that Biden and Democrats find themselves where they are at due to immense policy failure after policy failure that has convinced millions of people that there is simply nothing to *gain* FOR THEM from participating in the theater of elections.

 

You are privileged enough to have the belief that those who don't vote simply don't possess the understanding of civic duty that you miraculously have, ignoring that the same logic that compels you to vote is no different than the very logic that compels millions of people to decide voting is a materially pointless exercise.

 

Imagine unquestionably supporting a man who won't even throw you - his supporters - a bone and make any effort to change his views to help win the very elections you say are consequential. Maybe Joe just knows he's a few years from death and wants to lose! Surprising that no one wants to vote for a man who *wants* to lose!

[teresaguidice]

3 hours ago, Gottasadae said:

Another Trump presidency would be the end of our country, his first term was kinda moderate but now, he’s a cornered and absolutely stupid man that wants revenge and violence. I hope GOP will have a decency to ditch him in favor of Haley or even DeSantis, otherwise the party will be destroyed completely by trumpism extremists. 

haley or desantis would successfully inflict 10x the damage trump could even dream to and would face very little resistance doing it. this pervasive lib idea that trump is an extremist and totally unique threat but buttoned up right wing lunatics like desantis and haley are "normal" is why democrats will crumble electorally when the trump boogeyman isn't there anymore.

[anti-bitch]

9 hours ago, Communion said:

And Genocide Joe delivers that?

Why don't you and @ClashAndBurn call Trump as Genocide Trump? Or Genocide Haley then, or all these other options? There's literally only terrible options available in terms of foreing policy, except Marianne Williamson, but the public doesn't seem to get behind her.

 

And I think Biden is more likely to fold and bend towards ceasefire than any Republican would. And those reports of Democrats being shocked that their consituents are against this, it has to affect them somehow. I can't believe they would not want to win elections anymore, so my hope is thay they fold, even if not out of the kindness of their hearts, but just to win back Gen Z. It would help if they got someone else than Kamala on the ticket.
 

And even if the Party establishments from both sides are genocidal, at least seeing the Democratic youth being pro-Palestine gives me hope that some kind of peace could be found with future Dem leadership. Now it's a questions of how we get there.

[anti-bitch]

8 hours ago, ClashAndBurn said:

 

And this is the point, btw. To you and @Communion. What it says in the tweet. I can understand you guys feeling furious right now, and feeling like there's no options. And any delay for ceasefire is too much for the people in Gaza. But who do you think is more likely to fold on this issue, Biden or Trump? Who do you think is more likely to sway according to the public opinion on this, Dems or GOP? I hope and pray it's the blue option for both. Even if they do it just to try and win the election next year. No matter the motive. Ceasefire now. And peace talks for next year. Same for Ukraine as well.

[khalyan]

The problem is Trump wants all of these things, but the courts will keep them from happening to the extent he wants them. 

[Vermillion]

38 minutes ago, khalyan said:

The problem is Trump wants all of these things, but the courts will keep them from happening to the extent he wants them. 

To what limit? Gorsuch only seems to care about Native Americans when it comes to legal cases re: migrants and neither Kavanaugh nor Roberts are reliable votes on this.

 

Picking and choosing targeted circuit court rulings isn’t going to work either.

 

This isn’t family separation even if it could happen by default, and polling’s still strong on this. But that’s a separate conversation.

[AvadaKedavra]

But ATRL told me how they like trump better than Biden and they will not give a single vote to biden if he's the democrat candidate , so theyre here for these mass deportations and camps?  Can they talk about the palestinian situation when theyre supportin future camps in their own country? can they talk?  

Ok now without playing Im worried  my brother is moving to Arkansas and im worried of people treating him bad cause he's a southamerican
He's legal of course and arriving with a students visa but still im worried about the implications for non-white people-women-the LGBTI-science......  

The beautiful america and their people. I think this time you all could fall into fascist dictatorship mode if that pig of trump gets elected again

I think this time he could be really unhinged. Worrisome. Specially cause Trump is Putin-China *** . Europe will suffer too

Praying a miracle happens and trump goes back to oblivion  

Trump is also enemy of the president of my country Colombia (A disaster). They fought on twitter
He could get us in big big trouble here with sanctions or something 

What if we rally with Obama. I think he's still popular Worldwide
He should run again 

Edited November 12, 2023 by AvadaKedavra

[Erotic]

He’s so winning 

[Communion]

6 hours ago, anti-***** said:

Why don't you and @ClashAndBurn call Trump as Genocide Trump?

I don't think you're trolling, so let's break this down in parts.

 

If you mean literally, it's because English is a phonetic language and "Genocide Joe" 'flows' phonetically. And variations of it rhyme, like "Genocidin' Biden". It's why you'll see people say "Dump Trump". So I *hope* you're not actually mad over variations in rhyme schemes. 

 

If you mean it figuratively, and are more-so asking "How come you guys don't criticize Republicans??", you're already mistaken in understanding the leftists you're critiquing.

 

 

Leftists like myself are who offer critiques of Trump and Non-Trump Republicans, especially made evident when the latter end up receiving praise from so-called liberals on here, whether it be just out of the hope of destroying Trump (DeSantis) or something as obscene as users on here praising Haley's "demeanor". 

 

 It is also us who call out when right-wing liberals criticize Biden *from the right* while being sure in our criticisms from Biden's *left*:

 

6 hours ago, anti-***** said:

And I think Biden is more likely to fold and bend towards ceasefire than any Republican would....I can't believe they would not want to win elections anymore

Well, think again!

 

You're saying 'well isn't Biden more open to pressure?" but are clearly uncomfortable at what applying that pressure actually entails and looks like.

 

Concern doesn't apply pressure. Prayers and feelings don't apply pressure. The only method you have to apply pressure to politicians is withholding your vote.

 

[Communion]

1 hour ago, AvadaKedavra said:

my brother is moving to Arkansas and im worried of people treating him bad cause he's a southamerican
He's legal of course and arriving with a students visa

Sorry, liberals are now calling for the deportation of students on visas if they protest Zionism. Odd how deportation is bipartisan!

 

 

[anti-bitch]

9 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

 

You're saying 'well isn't Biden more open to pressure?" but are clearly uncomfortable at what applying that pressure actually entails and looks like.

 

Concern doesn't apply pressure. Prayers and feelings don't apply pressure. The only method you have to apply pressure to politicians is withholding your vote.

 

No, I wasn't trolling.

 

And I am comfortable with Americans, and even people abroad, doing whatever it takes to make Biden fold. And if he doesn't wanna fold, then make the DNC and/or his handlers fold, whoever. I guess all that people can do now is to mount more pressure on their elected officials/senators, and try to reach the White House too if possible. And again, I can't believe they would not want to win next year, so they gotta wake up and see the reality in the polls and streets right now. Maybe they're worried about fundraising potential, so there should be pressure on the corporations and organizations that fund them to stop it if there's no ceasefire talks. Corporations usually do internal/opinion polling too, so they should be seeing the reality on the ground too. Even if they don't care about anything other than money, it could be good for business to voice support for Palestine now.

 

I just struggle with this because I start to think about what Trump and his administration could do to the immigrants, people of color, and queer people in the US in his second term. And I wonder if it's possible that he could go more unchecked this time, given there's no need to moderate his policies for the next possible election. He could just go all out. And what if he'd refuse to step down after 2028, but for real this time. And if Trump wins, I don't know if Dems will learn anything from it. It's gonna be 2016 again. They should get the message that Progressivism is the future rather than moderation. I wish they'd learn it now and not next year.

 

But at the same time, I understand that voting for Biden just to keep Trump out is not good enough for many people, not anymore. It really should not be this difficult to give the country a true alternative who people could feel easy voting for and not just against Trump.

[Sergi91]

8 hours ago, khalyan said:

The problem is Trump wants all of these things, but the courts will keep them from happening to the extent he wants them. 

In theory this is how the courts would work but Trump can easily appoint far right MAGAs as judges that will back him up. 

[GhostBox]

1 hour ago, Sergi91 said:

In theory this is how the courts would work but Trump can easily appoint far right MAGAs as judges that will back him up. 

Exactly.