poll is it finally time to admit Taylor has surpassed Madonna?

[Klein]

She hasn't yet. But it is time to admit it is inevitable. 

[CorbynBlessing]

Madonna is a legend and has nothing left to prove.

[Raspberries]

Madonna will always be the ultimate female pop star. It is because of her that most of our faves can do what they do. Taylor herself would agree as she loves Madonna

[thequeenofpopmadonna]

2 minutes ago, Klein said:

She hasn't yet. But it is time to admit it is inevitable. 

Not really. She won't be the first. Decades behind. So keep dreaming.

[charot]

Madonna's impact is/was UNIVERSAL  can't say the same for the other girly.

 

Stans need to step out of their bubble.

[Raspberries]

3 hours ago, Eternium said:

Such a valid point. 6 years into their careers, Taylor Swift was causing controversy for excluding black people from her video set in Africa (“Wildest Dreams)” and Madonna was causing controversy for kissing a black man and addressing how people of color are unfairly targeted for crimes they didn’t commit (“Like A Prayer).”

 

It’s like comparing Ed Sheeran to Michael Jackson.

And around the time of Wildest Dreams, Madonna was using the n word on Instagram  

 

I love Madonna, but using a "problematic" **** to prop her up and drag another is nonsense since Madonna has said and done a lot of questionable things in her career  

[Blue Rose]

Yes. Taylor is 5’10 while Madonna is 5’3. I don’t know why this deserved a thread

[byzantium]

4 years ago there were similar threads asking if Taylor surpassed Britney.  2 years ago there were threads asking if Taylor surpassed Mariah.  Now we are having threads about Madonna.  Regardless of the answer, is rather undeniable what her trend-line is projecting. 

[MingYouToo]

I think that there are two truths to this argument.

 

1. Taylor Swift will never be the Queen of Pop.

 

and

 

2. Taylor Swift's musical career has already surpassed Madonna.

 

Being the QoP is not a measure of numbers, and while Madonna has both incidentally, her claim to fame is never her sales but rather what she did for her time and how she shifted the perception and culture specifically for gays and women. Its not her sales that make her QoP but her impact. Something Taylor will never replicate, nor will ANY other female popstar in the present and in the future. We need to remind ourselves that Madonna's work spanned beyond her musicality, but her social awareness and what she stood for during her reign. Taylor Swift will never replicate or come close to that level of implication and that's okay to admit.

 

BUT it is also true that as a musical (hear: MUSIC) career and commercially, Taylor Swift is on her way to surpassing Madonna. No doubts about it, the numbers don't lie. We can argue consumption metrics, argue b-bUt sTrEaMiNg all day and cope with streaming farms, white worshipping Asians from China and the Philippines, or her army of 15 year old girls, but to be able to maintain such a dominance over shifting markets for 3 decades takes insane talent and career crafting, and for that alone, Taylor's career is objectively bigger than Madonna. Taylor is selling millions at a time when 500k is already seen as a massive success for everyone else. You can complain about how bland her music is, how bad she dances, but people still WANT to listen to her work and BUY her work. You can be in your feelings all you want but at the end of the day, Taylor Swift's constant resistance to her downfall and rising higher and higher instead warrants a spot as the biggest female artist of all time.

Edited October 29, 2023 by MingYouToo

[GentleEarthquake]

This thread reminds me of another thread about Drake surprassing MJ 

[JaXXXon]

The main problem about the Swifties is that they are incredibly US-centric. 
 

Taylor isn’t doing any record-breaking numbers in most places outside of the US. 
 

We can start with Austria. In Austria, her highest-charting song from 1989TV is at #8 and she only has two Top 10s there. In Brazil her highest-charting song is #13 and she only has two songs on the Top 20 there. In Columbia her highest-charting song is at #44. In Czech Republic she’s #22. In Denmark her highest charting song is at #19. In Egypt she has ZERO songs in the Top 50. In France her highest charting song is at #43. In Germany it’s #19. In Italy it’s #49. In Poland, it’s #26. In Spain she’s #40.

 

The Swifties always do this. They completely ignore the stats from other territories and only include the US, the UK and Australia because those are the only places where she can rival the legends. 
 

Madonna was and still is equally famous in almost every country. The Beatles would’ve probably charted #1 everywhere. 
 

People on this board that aren’t the Swifties need to shove these stats down their throats because when the last few rereleases had these stats outside of the US what I heard was “just wait until 1989TV comes out” and now it’s out and it’s still not doing “Madonna and Michael Jackson business” anywhere but Anglosphere 

 

They also claimed that The Eras movie would be the new Barbie but its overseas numbers outside of Anglosphere are not impressive as well. 
 

They are gaslighting ya’ll into thinking Taylor belongs anywhere near Madonna or MJ or The Beatles when she doesn’t even belong near Adele in most countries in terms of sales. 

Edited October 29, 2023 by JaXXXon

[needs]

Taylor Swift has had not the influence on pop culture that Madonna has. Yall Swifties are losing it lol.

 

 

[Kristie Kuwa]

39 minutes ago, JaXXXon said:

The main problem about the Swifties is that they are incredibly US-centric. 
 

Taylor isn’t doing any record-breaking numbers in most places outside of the US. 
 

We can start with Austria. In Austria, her highest-charting song from 1989TV is at #8 and she only has two Top 10s there. In Brazil her highest-charting song is #13 and she only has two songs on the Top 20 there. In Columbia her highest-charting song is at #44. In Czech Republic she’s #22. In Denmark her highest charting song is at #19. In Egypt she has ZERO songs in the Top 50. In France her highest charting song is at #43. In Germany it’s #19. In Italy it’s #49. In Poland, it’s #26. In Spain she’s #40.

 

The Swifties always do this. They completely ignore the stats from other territories and only include the US, the UK and Australia because those are the only places where she can rival the legends. 
 

Madonna was and still is equally famous in almost every country. The Beatles would’ve probably charted #1 everywhere. 
 

People on this board that aren’t the Swifties need to shove these stats down their throats because when the last few rereleases had these stats outside of the US what I heard was “just wait until 1989TV comes out” and now it’s out and it’s still not doing “Madonna and Michael Jackson business” anywhere but Anglosphere 

 

They also claimed that The Eras movie would be the new Barbie but its overseas numbers outside of Anglosphere are not impressive as well. 
 

They are gaslighting ya’ll into thinking Taylor belongs anywhere near Madonna or MJ or The Beatles when she doesn’t even belong near Adele in most countries in terms of sales. 

 

[thequeenofpopmadonna]

Madonna the queen of pop has the most no. 1s around the globe , the staggering 463s. She has more no.1s than Beatles.

But swiftie can't even beat Beyoncé and break into top 9 yet. Lol

Let them talk about local artists.

Keep dreaming and

Please sit down swiftie.

Edited October 29, 2023 by thequeenofpopmadonna

[Chris]

Don't you guys get tired?

 

There is already like two similar threads about this.

 

[Nashe]

Good luck to that time ever coming. 

[Chris]

6 hours ago, Artistofthedecade said:

Madonna's highest selling album sold like 20-30M albums. That’s equal to Taylor's daily listeners so acting like Taylor's success comes from same people buying 3652624 copies is just nonsensical. 

This whole comparison is nonsensical.

 

 

Like WHAT?

 

[Chris]

6 hours ago, istan4badgalriri said:

She never cared to soften or tone down her image

Bedtime Stories says hello but we still love her.

 

[loveisdead9582]

Sales/consumption? She’s almost there. As far as cultural impact goes, no. Madonna pushed quite a few boundaries and didn’t have any issues rubbing people the wrong way as far as social issues were concerned. Taylor has definitely come out as an ally and advocate for some great causes but Madonna definitely was a trailblazer. No shade at all to Taylor (I’m a huge fan) but she’s not quite there… yet. Given time, I’m sure she could be. 

[Solaria]

It’s never Mariah, Celine, The Beatles or Michael that these ‘has Taylor surpassed’ threads are about. It’s always Madge, oh Goddonna. How relevant you remain 

[Gaia]

A lot of people seem to ignore that it’s a completely different landscape now than decades ago. Streaming has made it monumentally easier to have consistant “massive” success 

 

You essentially contribute to both Hot 100 and BB200 by streaming and buying songs which is heavily inflating artist stats now compared to the past. 

[thequeenofpopmadonna]

1 minute ago, Gaia said:

A lot of people seem to ignore that it’s a completely different landscape now than decades ago. Streaming has made it monumentally easier to have consistant “massive” success 

 

You essentially contribute to both Hot 100 and BB200 by streaming and buying songs which is heavily inflating artist stats now compared to the past. 

Yes preach it.

[Klein]

2 minutes ago, Gaia said:

A lot of people seem to ignore that it’s a completely different landscape now than decades ago. Streaming has made it monumentally easier to have consistant “massive” success 

 

You essentially contribute to both Hot 100 and BB200 by streaming and buying songs which is heavily inflating artist stats now compared to the past. 

Which is why people are approaching the question using album units as to not double count. 

 

And I kinda disagree that streaming makes things easier for artists because there's only 2 to 3 artists that are entering the realm of success of the greats (Taylor, Drake and Rihanna). It's not like everyone and their mother is getting there. 

[thequeenofpopmadonna]

It's funny that for a currently inflating era all songs from an album by  recent acts could chart all at once even if they werent proper singles nowadays. But in old days only one or two proper singles could be allowed to chart.

Different rules applied.

 

And now their new stans come out and say hey our younger and favorite inflation beat veteran acts.

How bullsh.t

 

Why don't you apply the same rule like old days and come back to talk about then?

 

That's one of the examples how much and inflated recent acts have benefited.

Edited October 29, 2023 by thequeenofpopmadonna

[LikeaRebel]

No.