poll is it finally time to admit Taylor has surpassed Madonna?

[JaXXXon]

1 hour ago, Artistofthedecade said:

Madonna's highest selling album sold like 20-30M albums. That’s equal to Taylor's daily listeners so acting like Taylor's success comes from same people buying 3652624 copies is just nonsensical. 

If you told those 20+ million listeners of Taylor's to PAY $15 to listen to ANY song there would not be 20 million listeners anymore.

 

People that are curious to listen to a song of Taylor's will listen for free, while "curiosity listens" back then didn't exist and you had to BUY the album to get a listen. So Madonna's 20-30 million copies SOLD is not the same as Taylor's 20 million listeners. Madonna would have like 50 million listeners during True Blue lol. 

Edited October 29, 2023 by JaXXXon

[SignificantOther]

1 minute ago, JaXXXon said:

If you told those 20+ million listeners of Taylor's to PAY $15 to listen to ANY song there would not be 20 million listeners anymore.

 

People that are curious to listen to a song of Taylor's will listen for free, while "curiosity listens" back then didn't exist and you had to BUY the album to get a listen. So Madonna's 20-30 million copies SOLD is not the same as Taylor's 20 million listeners. Madonna would have like 50 million listeners during True Blue lol. 

In a world and an America with half the population too. 

[suneclipse121]

Let’s put it this way. Taylor is what 10 albums into her career and almost 20 years in overall and in that time she has been commercially huge but culturally she has barely made a dent. I mean put her up against Madonna’s first 20 years and it’s literally unfair to even compare not just Taylor but anyone to Madonna. Madonna broke every rule in the book and set the standard and still was successful. Taylor got to where she is with her talent but let’s be real she never rocked the boat and kept her sound and image as clean as one could get. In that sense Taylor will never surpass Madonna even with her commercial prowess which I still am unsure if the two could be compared fairly because consumption now is a lot different than it was 30-40 years ago. 

 

[Cruel Summer]

Just now, JaXXXon said:

If you told those 20+ million listeners of Taylor's to PAY $15 to listen to ANY song there would not be 20 million listeners anymore.

 

People that are curious to listen to a song of Taylor's will listen for free, while "curiosity listens" back then didn't exist and you had to BUY the album to get a listen. So Madonna's 20-30 million copies SOLD is not the same as Taylor's 20 million listeners. Madonna would have like 50 million listeners during True Blue lol. 

Fun fact, the vast majority of those listeners have to pay monthly for the actual subscription, and album-equivalent units are calculated with formulas based on revenue because people have to pay. Even "free" streams are paid for by ads. The world has changed a lot since 1986.

[WildHeart]

2 minutes ago, JaXXXon said:

If you told those 20+ million listeners of Taylor's to PAY $15 to listen to ANY song there would not be 20 million listeners anymore.

If they didn't have streaming, they would pay for albums instead. This is why pure sales are going down every new year. 

 

Welcome to the streaming era 

[Bosque]

Not too much on Madonna now - she is the Queen of Pop for a reason

 

I'm sure Taylor has outdone her by many objective commercial metrics, but it doesn't make too much sense to directly compare numbers between artists of different eras 

[Bloo]

1 hour ago, LittleStarmen said:

Taylor will be forgotten by the next 5 years and will be more akin to the spice girls. a big phenomemon that society has moved on

Y’all said this exact thing on this site a decade ago.  

[Bosque]

12 minutes ago, JaXXXon said:

If you told those 20+ million listeners of Taylor's to PAY $15 to listen to ANY song there would not be 20 million listeners anymore.

 

People that are curious to listen to a song of Taylor's will listen for free, while "curiosity listens" back then didn't exist and you had to BUY the album to get a listen. So Madonna's 20-30 million copies SOLD is not the same as Taylor's 20 million listeners. Madonna would have like 50 million listeners during True Blue lol. 

I would love to live with this level of delusion, it would make life so much easier 

 

Taylor had 6 albums that debuted above 1 million copies sold. She just literally did it with the same album that already sold 1 million copies first week in 2014. She's literally the only artist nowadays that people will actually spend money to listen to. Let's not even talk about the fact that people will pay over 1 billion dollars to see her live tour. 

[Mitsouko]

Oof swifties are unhinged 

[FailSafe]

Taylor is on her way, she only needs an album or two to surpass Madonna commercially 

[Steve Johnson]

She is the biggest female artist of all time!!!! 

[bad guy]

No contemporary artist will ever surpass the likes of Madonna, The Beatles, Michael Jackson, or any other *insert legend here* because the music industry is no longer a monoculture. There is no more ubiquity in the social media age. 

 

Taylor is setting her own pathway in the streaming era for other artists coming up to take her spot, but she will never, and can never, take the spots of pre-streaming acts. Ever. Anyone seriously saying she can or will is delusional beyond help.

[JaXXXon]

6 minutes ago, Dephira said:

Taylor had 6 albums that debuted above 1 million copies sold. 

Yes, but there's way more to those Spotify numbers than just fans. Casual listeners who would never buy a Taylor Swift album are there too and if they had to they would NOT buy her albums. The user claimed that Taylor's 20 million listeners on Spotify is the same as Madonna's 20-30 million CUSTOMERS which is simply not the case. 

 

And her stars outside of the US are simply not on Madonna's level. 

[Bosque]

1 minute ago, JaXXXon said:

Yes, but there's way more to those Spotify numbers than just fans. Casual listeners who would never buy a Taylor Swift album are there too and if they had to they would NOT buy her albums.

I'm glad you admit that she has both an intense fanbase and the GP on her side, resulting in her unprecedented numbers  

Edited October 29, 2023 by Dephira

[JaXXXon]

20 minutes ago, Artistofthedecade said:

If they didn't have streaming, they would pay for albums instead. This is why pure sales are going down every new year. 

 

Welcome to the streaming era 

Well, I'm sure some would. But a lot wouldn't. You can't seriously be claiming that each and single one of those 20 million listeners would pay for her album. That's insane. Either you mean those are only Swifties and there's zero interest from casual music listeners there or you claim there are casual listeners among those 20 million and if there are it's impossible that every one of them would buy her album.

 

[JaXXXon]

1 minute ago, Dephira said:

I'm glad you admit that she has both an intense fanbase and the GP on her side, resulting in her unprecedented numbers  

And I'm glad you admit indirectly that therefore this comparison makes absolutely zero sense 

[kimberly]

23 minutes ago, Cruel Summer said:

Fun fact, the vast majority of those listeners have to pay monthly for the actual subscription, and album-equivalent units are calculated with formulas based on revenue because people have to pay. Even "free" streams are paid for by ads. The world has changed a lot since 1986.

paying $15 for a single album and dropping $5.99 on Spotify premium + Hulu is not the same. 

 

now, I'm not one of those people that say "pure sales" are more important because well, it's just not how we consume music anymore. but comparing Taylor's numbers to Madonna's is like comparing a Netflix movie to a 90's blockbuster. it's just not the same. and it's not directly comparable.

[Bosque]

1 minute ago, JaXXXon said:

Well, I'm sure some would. But a lot wouldn't. You can't seriously be claiming that each and single one of those 20 million listeners would pay for her album. That's insane. Either you mean those are only Swifties and there's zero interest from casual music listeners there or you claim there are casual listeners among those 20 million and if there are it's impossible that every one of them would buy her album.

 

She has 100 million monthly listeners just on Spotify, not sure where you are getting 20 million from 

[Bosque]

Just now, kimberly said:

paying $15 for a single album and dropping $5.99 on Spotify premium + Hulu is not the same. 

 

now, I'm not one of those people that say "pure sales" are more important because well, it's just not how we consume music anymore. but comparing Taylor's numbers to Madonna's is like comparing a Netflix movie to a 90's blockbuster. it's just not the same. and it's not directly comparable.

Considering that Taylor is literally the last artist who still sells albums at USD 15, and outsells most other popular artists like Drake and Bad Bunny by a factor of 100 (literally), I'm not sure this is the drag you think it is 

[JaXXXon]

1 minute ago, kimberly said:

paying $15 for a single album and dropping $5.99 on Spotify premium + Hulu is not the same. 

 

now, I'm not one of those people that say "pure sales" are more important because well, it's just not how we consume music anymore. but comparing Taylor's numbers to Madonna's is like comparing a Netflix movie to a 90's blockbuster. it's just not the same. and it's not directly comparable.

You nailed it. 

 

Just like a movie on Netflix will have lots of viewers that wouldn't pay for it if it were in theaters (or better yet, DID NOT pay for it when it was in theaters) a chunk of Taylor's listeners would not buy her albums. I've streamed Cruel Summer but I would never buy her next album. 

[pisuke]

Never in a billion years. Taylor is still walking on the path Madonna created. She has her place in music history for sure, but never on Madonna's level. The impact isn't anywhere close.

[St. Charles]

1 hour ago, Cruel Summer said:

I think that while, in terms of overall units and raw consumption metrics, Taylor is well on her way to outselling Madonna in the next few years, we need not count our chickens before they hatch. I also think a lot of people would strongly disagree that Taylor has yet outpaced Madonna's cultural influence, even in the US - Madonna is, after all, THE pop star blueprint.

Thank you for posting a fair and mature comment which pays respects to both artists & isn't delusional or shady.

[Leppie]

There's only one Queen, and that's Madonna

[WildHeart]

7 minutes ago, JaXXXon said:

Well, I'm sure some would. But a lot wouldn't. You can't seriously be claiming that each and single one of those 20 million listeners would pay for her album. That's insane. Either you mean those are only Swifties and there's zero interest from casual music listeners there or you claim there are casual listeners among those 20 million and if there are it's impossible that every one of them would buy her album.

 

She doesn't have 20M total listeners, she has 20M unique daily listeners on Spotify alone. Her monthly listeners stands at 100M on Spotify, probably approaching 200M on all platforms. 

 

No need to make up scenarios anyway, she has 2 10M selling albums in pure with one of them coming from the streaming era. 

[Bosque]

1 minute ago, JaXXXon said:

You nailed it. 

 

Just like a movie on Netflix will have lots of viewers that wouldn't pay for it if it were in theaters (or better yet, DID NOT pay for it when it was in theaters) a chunk of Taylor's listeners would not buy her albums. I've streamed Cruel Summer but I would never buy her next album. 

Midnights sold 1 million physical/digital copies first week. Un Verano Sin Ti, the #1 album of 2022, sold 70k in total. Like A Prayer, Madonna's ultra-success album, never even entered the Top 10 Year End chart of the Billboard 200.

 

If you truly care as much about pure sales as you pretend, Taylor Swift would be the most successful artist of all time by a margin of 20x