base talk What does Beyoncé need to do to debut with 1m+?

[Strawberry Bubble]

On 10/28/2023 at 5:23 PM, istan4badgalriri said:

 the fact that that's the truth too

 

her music also isn't safe enough, same with her image, and... she's not white

 

Look at MJ and Whitney Houston album sales and then tell me that they couldn't sell because of their skin color. Oh, and TS is the only white artist in the world to be able to sell this amount of albums. This is a lazy and boring "argument". 

[istan4badgalriri]

16 minutes ago, Sebastián Muñoz said:

Look at MJ and Whitney Houston album sales and then tell me that they couldn't sell because of their skin color. Oh, and TS is the only white artist in the world to be able to sell this amount of albums. This is a lazy and boring "argument". 

Ah so now we're pretending that white artists aren't privileged and don't appeal to a broader audience... cool. I mean we can also pretend that racism doesn't exist altogether.

[Strawberry Bubble]

18 minutes ago, istan4badgalriri said:

Ah so now we're pretending that white artists aren't privileged and don't appeal to a broader audience... cool. I mean we can also pretend that racism doesn't exist altogether.

This is the most boring response ever. I gave you two examples of black artists who managed to outsell pretty much all the white artists of their time, and that was during a period when racism was way more accepted in society. Plus, I pointed out that Taylor is the only white artist to hit a million copies in her first week, while even artists like Harry Styles and Adele can't pull that off. So, you've got to explain why Beyonce's skin color somehows puts her at a disadvantage compared to Taylor, when nobody else can sell like her. There's just no connection between selling records and Beyonce's skin color. This is just a way to downplay a woman's talent, in this case, Taylor's, just because of her skin color.

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Sebastián Muñoz

[istan4badgalriri]

4 minutes ago, Sebastián Muñoz said:

This is really the most boring response ever. I gave you two examples of black artists who were able to sell more than maybe all the white artists of their generation, in a time in which racism was a lot more normalized in culture. I also gave an example of how Taylor is the only white artist to sell 1 m copies on her first week, because Harry Styles and Adele are not able to do so. You need to prove why Beyonce's skin color, unlike Michael Jackson and Whitney, is giving her a disadvantage over Taylor, when any other artist is not able to sell like her. There is no relation between selling products and Beyonce's skin color. This is  the most mediocre way to diminish a woman's talent (Taylor), just because of her skin color. 

You sound super ignorant. Just because Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston sold many albums doesn't invalidate the fact that white artists have and always had it easier. That's like saying racism doesn't exist because there's people of color who succeeded. MJ is a special case as well, for obvious reasons (if you know, you know).

 

The part about Adele has me confused as well because she literally sold 3m+ first week with '25'.

[Strawberry Bubble]

1 minute ago, istan4badgalriri said:

You sound super ignorant. Just because Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston sold many albums doesn't invalidate the fact that white artists have and always had it easier. That's like saying racism doesn't exist because there's people of color who succeeded. MJ is a special case as well, for obvious reasons (if you know, you know).

 

The part about Adele has me confused as well because she literally sold 3m+ first week with '25'.

I'm going to explain it very easily, so you understand it: it'd be pretty lazy to claim that Taylor can't sell 3 million copies in her first week just because she's a woman, especially when we all know sexism is still hanging around. But someone might fire back with, 'wait a minute, Adele sold 3 million copies with "25", and she's also a woman. Maybe Taylor is lacking something else.'

 

The point of this discussion is what's holding Beyonce back from selling 1 million copies in her first week, and you were suggesting it's because of her skin color. I'm giving you examples of artists of color who've hit those huge sales figures, even in a society where racism has been a big issue (and it was even worse in the past). 

 

We've got to look deeper and not fall into the trap of simplifying things like "black equals bad" and "white equals good". It's just not that simple. 

 

As for Adele, I'm talking about sales numbers in this decade. Her album "30" didn't match the first-week numbers of "Midnights". 

 

 

[dumbsparce]

What exactly is risky about Beyonce's music though? The only risk I can think of is Formation but it's not like she was debuting with a million before that either. The genres she's dipped into are mainstream, just like literally all the girls we talk about on this site. Do you seriously believe that if she made Taylor levels of safe she'd be debuting with the same numbers she does? It's all about the image/branding.

Beyonce, even at her youngest, always came off as a diva, goddess, sex symbol etc which alienates a lot of people. You either love her or hate her. There's no inbetween.

Taylor's singer/songwriter shtick combined with her whiteness immediately makes her appealing to all ages and all races. Add to that her talent and drive and boom! Here we are.

Edited November 4, 2023 by dumbsparce

[VioletsandRoses]

11 hours ago, btoafy said:

we dont care about Beyonce in Asia

Taylor sold 3.9m albums with 10 albums and 3-releases while Beyonce sold 3.1m albums with 7 releases. It’s not that big of a difference and she sold more singles in Asia with South Korea alone. Where she’s probably the biggest mpg there at that. Shes top 5 biggest pop girls here in Asia this century.  
 

I don’t think she was capable. Even if self titled had CDs first week and a normal tracking week. It’d do around 800k. Which is still good. The album sold 2.4m at the end so it’s better that it debuted with 600k. 

[Kristie Kuwa]

7 hours ago, Sebastián Muñoz said:

Look at MJ and Whitney Houston album sales and then tell me that they couldn't sell because of their skin color. Oh, and TS is the only white artist in the world to be able to sell this amount of albums. This is a lazy and boring "argument". 

Whitney was a ballad-queen and MJ did pure Pop while Bey has always been serving a fusion between RnB/Pop/HipHop elements. Also, Bey is a very sensual act, which is sth that is looked down upon in Asia. There's a reason Beys biggest commercial peak was IASF, her most Pop and safesr project image wise, the project that made her very successful in Asia (Listen, Halo, IIWAB are all well-known in Asia). 

So THAT needs to be factored in as well.

 

Also saying skincolour doesnt matter is a stupid take. Just because 2-3 artists managed to crack Asia in the last 30 years doesnt mean equal opportunity when there have been significantly more white artists who were successful in the meantime

Edited November 4, 2023 by Kristie Kuwa

[BGKC]

I think if she decided to release a relatable/wholesome power ballad as a lead and it hits, then that could get it close, especially if it’s got a country element to it like rumors have suggested. Halo being her biggest song on streaming is a testament to what the GP wants from her (because it ain’t necessarily the stans who’ve made Halo the staple it is). She’d have to perform/promote it like hell, ensure it goes viral and lead people into thinking it’s an album that everybody (including a more conservative/white audience) can get into, but this is all highly unlikely knowing she will do something to enrage that very audience instead lol. 

[Odette Violet]

She can but she don't care and she don't need that at this point of her career. 

[Strawberry Bubble]

18 hours ago, Kristie Kuwa said:

Whitney was a ballad-queen and MJ did pure Pop while Bey has always been serving a fusion between RnB/Pop/HipHop elements. Also, Bey is a very sensual act, which is sth that is looked down upon in Asia. There's a reason Beys biggest commercial peak was IASF, her most Pop and safesr project image wise, the project that made her very successful in Asia (Listen, Halo, IIWAB are all well-known in Asia). 

So THAT needs to be factored in as well.

 

Also saying skincolour doesnt matter is a stupid take. Just because 2-3 artists managed to crack Asia in the last 30 years doesnt mean equal opportunity when there have been significantly more white artists who were successful in the meantime

I can't believe that I really need to explain this: Taylor is selling one million copies in the US alone, so who cares about Asia? She is way more popular when we look at her global sales. The real question here is about Beyonce debuting with a million copies, just like Taylor has done with her last two albums, and that's only in the US. Taylor is not debuting with one million copies in Asia, no western artist is able to do that, even if they are white. 

 

 

 

 

 

[newaespa]

Release good music?

Have her daddy or Jay Z purchase 900k+ copies?

[ReH2o]

Tidal fake streams again

[bijonse]

On 11/3/2023 at 8:19 PM, Sebastián Muñoz said:

This is the most boring response ever. I gave you two examples of black artists who managed to outsell pretty much all the white artists of their time, and that was during a period when racism was way more accepted in society. Plus, I pointed out that Taylor is the only white artist to hit a million copies in her first week, while even artists like Harry Styles and Adele can't pull that off. So, you've got to explain why Beyonce's skin color somehows puts her at a disadvantage compared to Taylor, when nobody else can sell like her. There's just no connection between selling records and Beyonce's skin color. This is just a way to downplay a woman's talent, in this case, Taylor's, just because of her skin color.

 

This might be the most delusional post I’ve read on here 

[Pheromosa]

50 minutes ago, newaespa said:

Release good music?

Have her daddy or Jay Z purchase 900k+ copies?

rich coming from a kpop stan 

[bijonse]

“MJ and Whitney sold 1 million copies in the 80s when record sales were way stronger so racism is over”  you sound like the dummies that claim racism is over because Obama got elected. Your kind of ignorance is very dangerous and I think you should educate yourself on the ways racism is very much real and in some ways worse than it was a few decades ago @Sebastián Muñoz

[Price of Fame]

Her music isn't bland or vanilla enough to cast the wide enough net needed to pull this off

[newaespa]

13 minutes ago, Pheromosa said:

rich coming from a kpop stan 

brave of you to display ignorance publicly

[Fleahive]

20 hours ago, BGKC said:

I think if she decided to release a relatable/wholesome power ballad as a lead and it hits, then that could get it close, especially if it’s got a country element to it like rumors have suggested. Halo being her biggest song on streaming is a testament to what the GP wants from her (because it ain’t necessarily the stans who’ve made Halo the staple it is). She’d have to perform/promote it like hell, ensure it goes viral and lead people into thinking it’s an album that everybody (including a more conservative/white audience) can get into, but this is all highly unlikely knowing she will do something to enrage that very audience instead lol. 

I said this before in base and got dragged but I'm being dead serious. Y'all severely underestimate how the illuminati/devil worshipping rumors have effected Beyonce's career and I fully blame her for playing into it, even if the roc nation hand symbol is innocent, the public will never see that. Every single time I watch a beyonce video on tiktok the suggested search is "beyonce illuminati" "beyonce devil". She will be accused of those things in a top comment in every single article and video you watch of her. Most ultra religious people avoid her like the plague and they make up a majority of the US GP. Some people are not allowed to listen to her. No matter what she does she will never have a huge peak again because most people outright refuse to listen to her. And I also speculate this is why her spotify monthly listeners are so poor. I can guarantee you if spotify released a list of their top 10 most blocked artists she'd at least be top 3.

[Strawberry Bubble]

16 minutes ago, bijonse said:

“MJ and Whitney sold 1 million copies in the 80s when record sales were way stronger so racism is over”  you sound like the dummies that claim racism is over because Obama got elected. Your kind of ignorance is very dangerous and I think you should educate yourself on the ways racism is very much real and in some ways worse than it was a few decades ago @Sebastián Muñoz

I'm going to explain this step by step, because I see that you are really slow with words: 1) Beyonce debuted and reached her commercial peak during a time when the music industry was much healthier than it is today, and other artists were also debuting with a million copies. 2) There are numerous albums by black artists that debuted with a million copies in the 21st century (I'm not talking about the 80s), including albums like "Confessions", "The Massacre", and "Tha Carter III." This happened during her peak of popularity as well. 3) Yes, racism is horrible and cruel, but I think there are more significant factors to explain her success. Suggesting that Beyonce isn't as successful as other artists simply because she is black is basically deeming her to fail, and it's not accurate. That's why I'm using examples of successful artists who achieved greatness regardless of their skin color (even Aretha Franklin was black). 

 

If you are trying to make a relation between two things, such as racism and album sales, you should put in more effort than simply stating: "she is black, so she's not selling a million copies because I believe people don't buy her music due to racism." These are your intuitions, and they can be easily disproven with a basic understanding of musical history. 

 

 

That analogy with Obama is just proving that you really don't understand anything: we are not talking about a poor little unknown black artist that is having a hard time being famous, we are talking about Beyonce. I don't understand why I have to explain that she is at the top, she is very famous and maybe her success and overall sales are not a reflection of her skin color. That is reductionist, simple and dumb. 

 

Yes, I believe racism is a real and terrible problem. No, I don't think it's really having a big impact on her sales. If you want to link the two, you should put in more effort than simply relying on vague and superficial intuitions. 

[panochita]

 

Nothing, the fact she's doing this great at this point of her career is insane already, lbr after the 00s most female singers are dropped when they hit a certain age and that's a fact, Beyonce is avoiding that and going against the very prevailing ageism in the industry

 

[brenda-walsh]

i mean ST opened with like 1M in 10 days so she's pretty much done it, not sure why some are acting like she's never been close

[FreeXone]

Make a very commercial album again and release it PROPERLY 

 

SHE TECHNICALLY would have with the Beyoncé album. But she released it weird and didn’t get a full tracking.

[FreeXone]

On 11/3/2023 at 6:37 PM, dumbsparce said:

What exactly is risky about Beyonce's music though? The only risk I can think of is Formation but it's not like she was debuting with a million before that either. The genres she's dipped into are mainstream, just like literally all the girls we talk about on this site. Do you seriously believe that if she made Taylor levels of safe she'd be debuting with the same numbers she does? It's all about the image/branding.

Beyonce, even at her youngest, always came off as a diva, goddess, sex symbol etc which alienates a lot of people. You either love her or hate her. There's no inbetween.

Taylor's singer/songwriter shtick combined with her whiteness immediately makes her appealing to all ages and all races. Add to that her talent and drive and boom! Here we are.

I think so. I am Sasha fierce is her safest and biggest era. 

Edited November 5, 2023 by FreeXone

[Soda Pop Queen]