discussion Should Kids Be Taught About Factory Farming Before Eating Meat?

[Into The Void]

24 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said:

I'm trying to make everyone more compassionate towards animals. Why would you want to force people to all be meat eaters in the first place?

I'm not forcing people to be meat eaters I think people should eat what they want

[GraceRandolph]

6 minutes ago, Insanity said:

I'm not forcing people to be meat eaters I think people should eat what they want

If what people want involves animal abuse it's not okay.

Edited October 23, 2023 by GraceRandolph
typo

[Into The Void]

2 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said:

If what people wants involves animal abuse it's not okay.

I'm not the one abusing the animals dear

[GraceRandolph]

1 minute ago, Insanity said:

I'm not the one abusing the animals dear

Spectacular

[GraceRandolph]

1 hour ago, wastedpotential said:

Humans have been eating meat since we learned how to pick up a stone to bash an animal's head with. If there were any true cognitive dissonances, they would've worked their way through all of society thousands of years ago and we'd all be vegetarian today. That being said, I don't think it's a bad thing for parents to inform their children of where their meat comes from, but I don't think it should be mandated in the same way that skills necessary to survival in the world today (reading, writing, arithmetic) are mandatory. You've made quite a few anti-meat threads in the past few months pushing your agenda (see the poll answer being phrased "parents should be allowed to misinform their children"), and every time the answer seems to be broadly the same. People (such as myself) are aware of where their meat comes from, and I (and many others) choose to eat it anyway. 

What does what humans did thousands of years ago have to do with our current system which harms animals and the environment? Our population has grown exponentially and hunting/gathering societies are no longer the norm. I would like some explanations from you, @bliaz and @Insanity on how to prevent animal abuse under our current system and avoid the environmental consequences if you are so dead set against veganism.

 

[bliaz]

40 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said:

What does what humans did thousands of years ago have to do with our current system which harms animals and the environment? Our population has grown exponentially and hunting/gathering societies are no longer the norm. I would like some explanations from you, @bliaz and @Insanity on how to prevent animal abuse under our current system and avoid the environmental consequences if you are so dead set against veganism.

 

Leave me alone! 

[Sombre]

I'm so tired of vegans guilt tripping and gaslighting meat eaters. This is not the way you convince meat eaters to go vegan or live a plant based life. In fact, such behavior is so off putting that it discourages people from reducing their meat intake. Stop with this "parents are allowed to misinform their children" narrative. So annoying. 

[The Man Who]

 

[Feanor]

Yes.

[wehan6]

yes

[spree]

Meat is not nutritious? What kind of bs is that? 
 

these threads are off putting and I’m eating twice as much meat today. Bring on the bacon! 🥓

[wehan6]

the way there's always multiple users in any vegan related thread boasting how they just had a nice piece of meat 

 

you guys are riddled with guilt and you don't even realize it 

 

[BawwaB]

11 hours ago, GraceRandolph said:

It’s impossible for meat to be nutritious. 

what?.....like what?

[wastedpotential]

9 hours ago, GraceRandolph said:

What does what humans did thousands of years ago have to do with our current system which harms animals and the environment? Our population has grown exponentially and hunting/gathering societies are no longer the norm. I would like some explanations from you, @bliaz and @Insanity on how to prevent animal abuse under our current system and avoid the environmental consequences if you are so dead set against veganism.

 

Because, for better or worse, meat consumption is a significant part of the traditional and modern diet of just about every population group on the planet. Our population has grown exponentially, and the industrial meat system (cruelties and all) has grown alongside it to fulfill the demand. It's a collective action problem, because even though I am aware of the fact that reducing meat consumption would be good for lowering CO2 emissions, I'm also aware that there will be no meaningful or successful reduction effort, so I have no interest in arbitrarily cutting my own meat consumption when I would be one of the only people doing so. It sucks, but there is no real motivating incentive for change. I'm sorry that the treatment of animals makes you feel so personally guilty or upset when people eat meat, but that's not going to change my behavior, nor will it change the behavior of any one of the billions of other meat eaters on the planet because we don't feel guilty about it. 

[Afterglow]

Veganism is kinda hilarious to me. Like you hate meat yet create plant based products to mimick the exact taste and texture of meat products to please your appetite and taste buds, then extreme vegans go and try shaming meat eaters then go home and eat as much meat-like items as they can  

[GraceRandolph]

3 hours ago, wastedpotential said:

Because, for better or worse, meat consumption is a significant part of the traditional and modern diet of just about every population group on the planet. Our population has grown exponentially, and the industrial meat system (cruelties and all) has grown alongside it to fulfill the demand. It's a collective action problem, because even though I am aware of the fact that reducing meat consumption would be good for lowering CO2 emissions, I'm also aware that there will be no meaningful or successful reduction effort, so I have no interest in arbitrarily cutting my own meat consumption when I would be one of the only people doing so. It sucks, but there is no real motivating incentive for change. I'm sorry that the treatment of animals makes you feel so personally guilty or upset when people eat meat, but that's not going to change my behavior, nor will it change the behavior of any one of the billions of other meat eaters on the planet because we don't feel guilty about it. 

I asked you about how to curb climate change and prevent animal abuse... got any answers? Or is the animal exploitation side of the argument incapable of coming up with any solutions?

[chessguy99]

15 hours ago, Digitalism said:

When will you understand that most people know and don't care?

What I think every time I see a new topic by the OP.

[AMIT]

7 hours ago, Sombre said:

I'm so tired of vegans guilt tripping and gaslighting meat eaters. This is not the way you convince meat eaters to go vegan or live a plant based life. In fact, such behavior is so off putting that it discourages people from reducing their meat intake. Stop with this "parents are allowed to misinform their children" narrative. So annoying. 

Don't blame vegans just because they expose something that y'all think is deeply disconcerning about your own diet patterns. 

 

It's literally a don't shoot the messenger case. 

 

Y'all are wrong and being the big boys and girls that y'all are should just deal with it. Throwing a tantrum about it makes y'all look very childish. 

 

And if this is not the way, do you happen to have any other alternative? 

Edited October 23, 2023 by AMIT

[wastedpotential]

1 hour ago, GraceRandolph said:

I asked you about how to curb climate change and prevent animal abuse... got any answers? Or is the animal exploitation side of the argument incapable of coming up with any solutions?

Right I thought the subtext was clear enough but there isn't an answer to curb climate change or prevent animal abuse in the meat industry that is satisfactory to enough people to actually have an impact. There will always be vegan activists like you, but they will always be far outnumbered by the majority. Cows will keep farting as much methane as they have been and animals will continue to die gruesomely to meet demands. These are problems, sure, but they matter a lot less to people than the low price of ground beef or a chicken breast. Honestly, the fact that fake-meat substitutes have gotten as popular as they have become is a victory worth taking, though I have to wonder about an inevitable ceiling for demand. 

[GraceRandolph]

27 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

Right I thought the subtext was clear enough but there isn't an answer to curb climate change or prevent animal abuse in the meat industry that is satisfactory to enough people to actually have an impact. There will always be vegan activists like you, but they will always be far outnumbered by the majority. Cows will keep farting as much methane as they have been and animals will continue to die gruesomely to meet demands. These are problems, sure, but they matter a lot less to people than the low price of ground beef or a chicken breast. Honestly, the fact that fake-meat substitutes have gotten as popular as they have become is a victory worth taking, though I have to wonder about an inevitable ceiling for demand. 

So what solutions to animal abuse and climate change are you proposing?

[Capris Groove]

3 hours ago, GraceRandolph said:

I asked you about how to curb climate change and prevent animal abuse... got any answers? Or is the animal exploitation side of the argument incapable of coming up with any solutions?

Because it's not anybody's sole responsibility to have all of the answers to all of the world's problems. What are you personally proposing as a solution to the homelessness crisis? Refugee rights? Sweatshops, from where I'm sure some of your clothes are made?

 

Personally, I rarely drive and instead bicycle everywhere, use little hydro including no AC in the summer, use reusable bags, and have a little home garden on my balcony. But I also eat meat which I not only enjoy, but consider important to my lifestyle, health, love for cooking, social group, and budget.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Capris Groove

[GraceRandolph]

15 minutes ago, Capris Groove said:

Because it's not anybody's sole responsibility to have all of the answers to all of the world's problems. What are you personally proposing as a solution to the homelessness crisis? Refugee rights? Sweatshops, from where I'm sure some of your clothes are made?

 

Personally, I rarely drive and instead bicycle everywhere, use little hydro including no AC in the summer, use reusable bags, and have a little home garden on my balcony. But I also eat meat which I not only enjoy, but consider important to my lifestyle, health, love for cooking, social group, and budget.

What we do individually to solve an issue at hand can vary greatly, but right now we’re in a thread discussing solutions to animal agriculture and assuaging the inherent climate concerns and animal abuse within it. Vegans as a collective have a solution (end animal agriculture) while meat eaters don’t have any collective solution. 

[dumbsparce]

I don't see the benefit tbh bc either one of the following will be true:

A. in case the parents consume animal products then they're not setting the "right" example for the child so what's the point of educating them on the matter?

B. In case they're vegan the child will inevitably be raised vegan too

[bjorn]

On 10/23/2023 at 3:22 AM, GraceRandolph said:

It’s impossible for meat to be nutritious. 

Are you that misinformed? 
 

Real meat, grass fed is one of the most nutritious and healthiest foods you can eat. That’s not debatable, that’s truly a fact. 
 

However corn fed, processed meat is not nutritious and not good for you. 

[bjorn]

13 hours ago, wastedpotential said:

Because, for better or worse, meat consumption is a significant part of the traditional and modern diet of just about every population group on the planet. Our population has grown exponentially, and the industrial meat system (cruelties and all) has grown alongside it to fulfill the demand. It's a collective action problem, because even though I am aware of the fact that reducing meat consumption would be good for lowering CO2 emissions, I'm also aware that there will be no meaningful or successful reduction effort, so I have no interest in arbitrarily cutting my own meat consumption when I would be one of the only people doing so. It sucks, but there is no real motivating incentive for change. I'm sorry that the treatment of animals makes you feel so personally guilty or upset when people eat meat, but that's not going to change my behavior, nor will it change the behavior of any one of the billions of other meat eaters on the planet because we don't feel guilty about it.