news Update: Biden's Palestine failure - lowest approval of term, record-low #s w/ Dems

[ClashAndBurn]

2 minutes ago, If U Seek Amy said:

I do agree he should be nervous. He did not win by a large margin. Again, though like previous posts, approval ratings don't mean much and haven't meant much for most Presidents in awhile. Many have won re-election with approvals very similar though a bit higher than Jimmy Carter. That is not good evidence. And Dearborn, Michigan only has a population of about 108K. And census data shows only about 54K of those people are going to be concerned about that if at all. I think it is notable but it is not a slam dunk some think it is. And supporting Israel may net him even more voters possibly as Israel by US citizens is still widely more popular (mostly because of their own ignorance but still)

Supporting Israel isn't going to GAIN him any more votes than he was already going to get. The super supportive Zionists are going to be voting Trump because they know for sure they'll get more of what they want if Trump is in office. Their next goals after the flattening of Gaza and full settlement of the West Bank will be the annexations of the Sinai Peninsula, Golan Heights, and Southern Lebanon.

[If U Seek Amy]

Just now, ClashAndBurn said:

Supporting Israel isn't going to GAIN him any more votes than he was already going to get. The super supportive Zionists are going to be voting Trump because they know for sure they'll get more of what they want if Trump is in office. Their next goals after the flattening of Gaza and full settlement of the West Bank will be the annexations of the Sinai Peninsula, Golan Heights, and Southern Lebanon.

You do not know that, and you do not know how they feel sadly. It is okay to feel that way and have that opinion, but it is just that, an opinion. Making a sweeping declaration that all Zionists are going Trump makes no sense as Congress almost universally sided with a Zionist agenda and was comprised almost fully of both parties supported by both sides and voters all across the US

[Communion]

34 minutes ago, If U Seek Amy said:

Not clear how statistics works?

You: *describe how polling works, with sampling sizes being used to determine how larger populations work*

Also you: "AND THAT'S WHY POLLING THAT I DON'T LIKE IS BAD!"

 

You're doing no analysis. You're being a smear merchant and a partisan defender of genocide. Literally not a single term you're trying to use are you using correctly or accurately.

 

“Poll farming”? There’s *LITERALLY* multiple polls across multiple pollsters displaying both his approvals being awful with young people and falling with Dems.  Are Quinnipiac, Morning Consult, Harvard-Harris *AND* Gallup lying? His approvals are collapsing as a *TREND* across every pollster, with Gallup - the standard for such polling - capturing this as well. 

 

"It's a poll that doesn't poll millions of people. We can't actually measure in any real way how people feel so we can't say Biden is doing badly ". You're going to remembered as the kind of white supremacists who defended killing hundreds of thousands of Afghans and Iraqis.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Communion

[ClashAndBurn]

1 minute ago, If U Seek Amy said:

You do not know that, and you do not know how they feel sadly. It is okay to feel that way and have that opinion, but it is just that, an opinion. Making a sweeping declaration that all Zionists are going Trump makes no sense as Congress almost universally sided with a Zionist agenda and was comprised almost fully of both parties supported by both sides and voters all across the US

Zionist Democrats will vote for Genocide Joe regardless of what he does, and Zionist Republicans and most Zionist Independents will vote for Trump even if Biden goes full genocide and openly backs Israel's efforts to bomb Gaza into the Stone Age. It's not that hard. Zionist Democrats like John Fetterman aren't going to suddenly switch their votes if Biden's genocide support is not sufficient enough for them.

[If U Seek Amy]

8 minutes ago, Communion said:

You: *describe how polling works, with sampling sizes being used to determine how larger populations work*

Also you: "AND THAT'S WHY POLLING THAT I DON'T LIKE IS BAD!"

 

You're doing no analysis. You're being a smear merchant and a partisan defender of genocide. Literally not a single term you're trying to use are you using correctly or accurately.

 

“Poll farming”? There’s *LITERALLY* multiple polls across multiple pollsters displaying both his approvals being awful with young people and falling with Dems.  Are Quinnipiac, Morning Consult, Harvard-Harris *AND* Gallup lying? His approvals are collapsing as a *TREND* across every pollster, with Gallup - the standard for such polling - capturing this as well. 

 

"It's a poll that doesn't poll millions of people". You're going to remembered as the kind of white supremacists who defended killing hundreds of thousands of Afghan and Iraqis.

I did not state that polling that I don't like is bad. I stated that I don't like how any poll posted shouldn't be questioned. And post election analysis of the last few elections have even covered in depth what they did wrong and had issues with that caused inaccuracies. So using them and thinking they're strong support makes no sense

 

I am doing an analysis. I am analyzing to you what is flawed about the polls and data and why the data needs to be questioned as legitimate. 

 

I am not defending genocide. Questioning the legitmacy of polls is not the same as endorsing genocide. Again, I am pro-Palestine. If calling out data as inaccurate makes me genocidal well I suppose you are free to feel the way you like. That is immature.

 

There are LITERALLY multiple pollsters displaying awful approvals yes. I do believe his approval his low. I am only stating that low approval does not matter as much as people think it does. Some polls show though his approval with this conflict is rising or at least medium. That is all. 

 

Just because any agency is regarded as a standard for polling does not make it accurate. That is a fallacy. They have some standards for their statistics, but they still note their own flaws and methods. If you analyze the methods they use you can easily see the flaws in their methods. They are simply for sampling population data. They are not saying this is reality. 

 

You really want to frame me as genocidal and racist for questioning your information and data huh?  That is very fascist of you to be questioned and declare those people as evil and act like he morality king over there lmao

Edited October 28, 2023 by If U Seek Amy

[If U Seek Amy]

4 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

Zionist Democrats will vote for Genocide Joe regardless of what he does, and Zionist Republicans and most Zionist Independents will vote for Trump even if Biden goes full genocide and openly backs Israel's efforts to bomb Gaza into the Stone Age. It's not that hard. Zionist Democrats like John Fetterman aren't going to suddenly switch their votes if Biden's genocide support is not sufficient enough for them.

You really like to over simplify human beings into small groups that fit your preconceived notions don't you? Humans are more complicated than genocidal Zionist or not or Republican or Democrat. I feel bad for your outlook on other human beings in large

[Communion]

5 minutes ago, If U Seek Amy said:

There are LITERALLY multiple pollsters displaying awful approvals yes. I do believe his approval his low. I am only stating that low approval does not matter as much as people think it does. 

 

12 hours ago, Elusive Chanteuse said:

I mean I guess but Bush was re-elected with his low approval ratings as well. Republicans are pretty unified on their support of Israel. 

 

33 minutes ago, If U Seek Amy said:

This. So many Presidents have awful approval and get re-elected

"A *15* point different ish't really meaningful, right??" - is this the analysis you're hoping to offer? Historical illiteracy?

 

 

Is it just partisan blindness or an absolute lack of caring if Palestinians live or die that drives this historical revisionism?

Edited October 28, 2023 by Communion

[If U Seek Amy]

4 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

 

"A *15* point different ish't really meaningful, right??" - is this the analysis you're hoping to offer? Historical illiteracy?

 

 

Is it just partisan blindness or an absolute lack of caring if Palestinians live or die that drives this historical revisionism?

This is true Bush does have higher numbers. They still aren't good by any means. But if you look at the data Obama, Bush, Clinton, Reagan, and Eisenhower all won re-election. 3 of those won with relatively similar approvals to Biden. That is the analysis that is important 

 

Even further, George H.W. Bush had an approval of 68.6% and LOST hahahaha

Edited October 28, 2023 by If U Seek Amy

[Communion]

Just now, If U Seek Amy said:

This is true Bush does have higher numbers. They still aren't good by any means. 

I don't believe you think you're being honest when having to just pivot to the next talking point as you go.

 

GWB didn't just have "higher numbers" - his approval was *15 points* higher than Biden's at this point.

Having the 3rd highest approvals for any president in this point in their term who'd go on to seek re-election makes them objectively good.

 

3 minutes ago, If U Seek Amy said:

Obama, Bush, Clinton, Reagan, and Eisenhower all won re-election. 3 of those won with relatively similar approvals to Biden.

You mean Obama's 2012 run that saw Democrats lose 1,000 seats across the country? That saw him do worse in 2012 than 2008?

The kind of drop-off Biden can't afford due to his own 2020 win being marginal and thin already?

[ClashAndBurn]

19 minutes ago, If U Seek Amy said:

Even further, George H.W. Bush had an approval of 68.6% and LOST hahahaha

Because of Ross Perot. It's well-known that that whole ordeal sunk him and is the only reason why Third-Way Clintonism became ascendant. The Democrats would have flopped like they had the entire decade of the 1980s without him playing spoiler.

[If U Seek Amy]

1 minute ago, Communion said:

I don't believe you think you're being honest when having to just pivot to the next talking point as you go.

 

GWB didn't just have "higher numbers" - his approval was *15 points* higher than Biden's at this point.

Having the 3rd highest approvals for any president in this point in their term who'd go on to seek re-election makes them objectively good.

 

You mean Obama's 2012 run that saw Democrats lose 1,000 seats across the country? That saw him do worse in 2012 than 2008?

The kind of drop-off Biden can't afford due to his own 2020 win being marginal and thin already?

Okay but Bush having 15 points higher and his father having even more and losing contradicts your point still even if you want to declare his approval is "good". So that point is still moot and there are clearly more factors at play being ignored than poll/data numbers

 

Obama winning and Democrats losing 1,000 seats is not the same there and has numerous different variables. Also, Obama faced Mitt Romney. Biden is facing Trump is who drastically less popular and has drastically more issues going in. Mitt Romney was not already widely hated and facing numerous indictments. There are so many factors in play it is odd to be so confident in just data that as pointed is so contradictory and has so many other factors

[If U Seek Amy]

1 minute ago, ClashAndBurn said:

Because of Ross Perot. It's well-known that that whole ordeal sunk him and is the only reason why Third-Way Clintonism became ascendant. The Democrats would have flopped like they had the entire decade of the 1980s without him playing spoiler.

Huh. It sounds like there is the potential for Robert Kennedy to do something similar to Trump...

[ClashAndBurn]

1 minute ago, If U Seek Amy said:

Huh. It sounds like there is the potential for Robert Kennedy to do something similar to Trump...

Depends on his ballot access. States like Georgia might not even allow him on at all, but I could see them allowing Cornel West or possibly Joe Manchin (under No Labels).

 

Also possible RFK drops out if it looks like he's sabotaging Trump more than Biden.

[Communion]

4 minutes ago, If U Seek Amy said:

Okay but Bush having 15 points higher and his father having even more and losing contradicts your point still

"Biden's not doing badly if he can still win with record-low approvals due to.a 3rd party candidate somehow stealing enough GOP votes!!! I am very smart!!!"

 

No foresight. No political analysis. Not even a semblance of wanting Democrats to build a *lasting* and meaningful coalition to pass meaningful policy that actually helps the people they claim to care about. Just straight up treating elections like Yahtzee and blind partisan defense of those who even struggle to win said elections. 

[Bloo]

3 hours ago, If U Seek Amy said:

This is not accurate. Biden can lose Nevada, Georgia, and Arizona and still win if he gets all the pretty safe blue states + Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. He won Michigan by about 154K votes, Pennsylvania by about 82K votes, and Wisconsin by about 21K votes. Wisconsin fits into that but the other 2 do not and PA, WI, and MI have all shifted blue + we have abortion on the ballots/issues now. Plus, even if you kick out Wisconsin Biden still has reasonable chances to instead take Georgia, Nevada, North Carolina (tho particularly doubtful on this one), Arizona, and Georgia. I would definitely rather be Biden

 

Obama won re-election without 40% approval rating and often getting African American approval ratings in the 50s. 

 

I am not saying that Biden is going to necessarily win. It is VERY on the fence and I can really see it going either way. But many things can happen between now and 2024 election season and the numbers don't mean a ton

No, it is accurate. The actual number is 44,000 votes. Swap out Nevada with Wisconsin and you have the three states that won Biden the election by 44,000 votes. 
 

Quote

The tight races in the trio of states had a big electoral impact. As NPR's Domenico Montanaro has put it, "just 44,000 votes in Georgia, Arizona and Wisconsin separated Biden and Trump from a tie in the Electoral College."

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/02/940689086/narrow-wins-in-these-key-states-powered-biden-to-the-presidency

 

Denying basic numbers and statistics doesn’t make for a meaningful debate.

[If U Seek Amy]

1 hour ago, Bloo said:

No, it is accurate. The actual number is 44,000 votes. Swap out Nevada with Wisconsin and you have the three states that won Biden the election by 44,000 votes. 
 

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/02/940689086/narrow-wins-in-these-key-states-powered-biden-to-the-presidency

 

Denying basic numbers and statistics doesn’t make for a meaningful debate.

Ah okay. I apologize for my misunderstanding. I interpreted what you wrote wrong. I thought you were saying that he only lost by that many votes across all swing states stupidly. You are totally correct! Isn't that really crazy? And now for 2024 MI and PA each lost one electoral count so thats another 2 he already lost even if he wins the states Meanwhile Texas and Florida alone picked up 3 between the 2 and if that scenario happens where Biden loses those noted states he lost and wouldn't even get that tie...

[A.R.L]

Since when has this idiot done something good? Get him out of the office until a third world war begins

 

[Afterglow]

On 10/22/2023 at 8:55 PM, Cyanide said:

He is terrible. My conscience won’t let me vote for him or Trump

Your conscience isn't very bright then.

 

If any of you let Biden lose this election you truly hate your fellow Americans, especially those of color.

[Communion]

2 minutes ago, Afterglow said:

Your conscience isn't very bright then.

 

If any of you let Biden lose this election you truly hate your fellow Americans, especially those of color.

Nope, sorry, not gonna work this time. Gotta come up with something better.

 

 

[Afterglow]

Just now, Communion said:

Nope, sorry, not gonna work this time. Gotta come up with something better.

 

 

 

No sis, I dont. Being a non-voting simp or wasting your vote is not a good look. And extremely embarrassing especially in times like these. How silly can someone be! We just had another mass shooting and you'd waste your ability to hopefully turn the tides in the future? You'd rather let the possibility of someone getting into office again whose followers support this? What a conscience someone like this must have! 

[teresaguidice]

2 minutes ago, Afterglow said:

We just had another mass shooting and you'd waste your ability to hopefully turn the tides in the future?

what will democrats be doing about that?

[Afterglow]

1 minute ago, teresaguidice said:

what will democrats be doing about that?

Will they be contributing to them?

 

And dont bring up that BS about "black on black crime" 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Afterglow

[Communion]

6 minutes ago, Afterglow said:

No sis, I dont. Being a non-voting simp or wasting your vote is not a good look. 

I'm sure the people upset over genocide are gonna be concerned over the optics of not supporting your favorite pro-genocide president.

[Afterglow]

1 minute ago, Communion said:

I'm sure the people upset over genocide are gonna be concerned over the optics of not supporting your favorite pro-genocide president.

Imma be 1000% honest, Im concerned that we had yet another mass shooting basically down the road from family sis, right now, we as a country need people in office who are actively fighting against the mass murders here. As someone who also witnessed the CHAOS and aftermath of the Las Vegas mass shooting, I've had two in my recent lifetime too close to home! You gotta be insane to waste your vote it's seriously diabolical.  

[ClashAndBurn]

1 hour ago, Afterglow said:

right now, we as a country need people in office who are actively fighting against the mass murders here

A vote for an empty-headed husk like Joe Biden is a wasted vote. He's not going to have 60 Democrats in the Senate. He's not going to even have a Senate majority at all once Manchin's seat is lost. And Democrats will probably never get a Senate majority again anyway, given they only have what they have barely by the skin of their teeth because of a dying breed of Blue Dogs that have been losing their seats to Republicans since the Obama shellacking of 2010.

 

So realistically, nobody's gonna be fighting anything. Especially not Joe Biden, who remains an institutionalist and won't support getting rid of the filibuster for something like gun legislation.

Edited October 28, 2023 by ClashAndBurn