news Update: Biden's Palestine failure - lowest approval of term, record-low #s w/ Dems

[Anthinos]

I don't live in the USA so I don't know how good or bad Joe Biden really is but from the outside he is doing an okay or even good job. I don't understand why so many Americans hate him. I also don't understand how anyone can vote for the Republicans. They are so far to the right it's scary. Plus you have a conservative majority in the SC. I also don't understand the leftists who refuse to vote for the Democrats because of the Israel/Palestine conflict. You do realize that the alternative would be much worse for Palestinians? The left needs to stop with this political puritanism. 

 

I hope the Democrats win again. If Trump wins... it would be a disaster for the entire western world, for progressive movements, minorities and democracy.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Anthinos

[WildHeart]

1 hour ago, Anthinos said:

I don't understand why so many Americans hate him.

Because there are enough decent people in the US who don't like genocide apologists

 

1 hour ago, Anthinos said:

You do realize that the alternative would be much worse for Palestinians?

Like double deaths? 

[ZIVERT]

1 hour ago, Anthinos said:

I don't live in the USA so I don't know how good or bad Joe Biden really is but from the outside he is doing an okay or even good job. I don't understand why so many Americans hate him. I also don't understand how anyone can vote for the Republicans. They are so far to the right it's scary. Plus you have a conservative majority in the SC. I also don't understand the leftists who refuse to vote for the Democrats because of the Israel/Palestine conflict. You do realize that the alternative would be much worse for Palestinians? The left needs to stop with this political puritanism. 

 

I hope the Democrats win again. If Trump wins... it would be a disaster for the entire western world, for progressive movements, minorities and democracy.

Keep in mind that ATRL is an echo chamber and not necessarily a reflection of the average person in real life

[ClashAndBurn]

8 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

Keep in mind that ATRL is an echo chamber and not necessarily a reflection of the average person in real life

I wasn't aware that Quinnipiac polling was sampling ATRL!

If you can't see that Biden is clearly the most unpopular president we've had in 44 years, that comes down to willful blindness.

[Communion]

39 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

Keep in mind that ATRL is an echo chamber and not necessarily a reflection of the average person in real life

Good luck booking that youth vote you speak of.

[If U Seek Amy]

44 minutes ago, Anthinos said:

I don't live in the USA so I don't know how good or bad Joe Biden really is but from the outside he is doing an okay or even good job. I don't understand why so many Americans hate him. I also don't understand how anyone can vote for the Republicans. They are so far to the right it's scary. Plus you have a conservative majority in the SC. I also don't understand the leftists who refuse to vote for the Democrats because of the Israel/Palestine conflict. You do realize that the alternative would be much worse for Palestinians? The left needs to stop with this political puritanism. 

 

I hope the Democrats win again. If Trump wins... it would be a disaster for the entire western world, for progressive movements, minorities and democracy.

It is tricky. Trying to remain objective (take that for what you will) this is my take on various aspects related to this post:

 

1. Take polls with a grain of salt. They usually have very small sample sizes and have many problems scientifically with accuracy. They aren't to be completely ignored and do have valuable information if you fully review them, but people like using them because they can fulfill their confirmation bias and often try to push an agenda of some sort that skews reality. If you look at polls yourself, you can find just about any numbers you want. Often these polls are being answered and touted by more extreme people seeking them out than people who are not concerned. And numbers don't tell the full picture regardless. There is a huge number of US citizens you will only hear about and see on election day.

 

2. The recent Israel/Hamas conflict has many emotional. This has caused people to become short sighted and make sweeping conclusions in mass that will simmer as time goes on and events further unfold. So at least in the short-term people will be taking it out on him to have a scapegoat. Every President is the punching bag for the country when things go wrong typically whether they are at fault or not. 

 

3. Like with the media, people tend to mostly focus on the negatives of any President no matter who and ignore anything they have been successful with. As things are we will not likely see a President with a positive approval any time soon because no matter what you do you will anger people on some side, and they can tune into whatever their news source of choice is that purposefully enrages them for engagement at any time faster than ever. This skews reality for many and causes more angry reactions especially from internet frequenters who are louder.

 

4. Politics in America has always been notoriously slow and will continue to be so and people more than ever are struggling to deal with that as they are used to getting what they want when they want in this modern convenient society. This was done purposefully because of the problems with any single ruler or small group that forces radical change that ends up being even more damaging than a slower system. They both have pros and cons. Realistically Biden has been a relatively successful president legislatively compared to many Presidents (whether or not you like that legislature is up for your personal opinion) and America is handling inflation comparatively a lot better than most countries (and our cost of living/inflation is arguably most likely our biggest problem right now). I do not mean to imply that makes it okay and we shouldn't be doing more, but I do mean to say Biden and his admin are not the worst of people's problems when it comes to getting things done and swinging to the extreme other side in response is an immature and emotional response that lacks logic if people choose to do that. But when election time comes you will see people thinking more about this and data and people's opinions will likely shift a lot between now and election time in 2024 so this hate will liekly simmer a bit

 

5. Finally, a lot of leftists in particular are emotional over Israel/Hamas and having tunnel vision about Biden's response and is what going on mostly lately like stated above in part. I get why anyone would not want to support someone who doesn't do what they want them to do. Online definitely skews younger and these people are still new or relatively new to politics and the horrors of reality. I don't blame them for their feelings. This will calm down with time though. But like you said when you sit down and look at it even if you find Biden abhorrent for this Israel/Hamas conflict by letting Trump win you are going to be hurting more than Palestinians because of your emotional response (and likely causing an even more extreme US response against Palestine). You are free to have your opinion and vote (or non-vote if you so choose), but you will be still technically making a choice to hurt others if abortion is banned nationwide, if Trump takes an even more pro-Israel stance, if more minority rights are degraded, and more. In reality a non-vote is not the protest many think it is. I see why people think not voting is sending a message to do as they ask, but like stated, there is more that will be hurt by your protest of voting than you will be helping if successful. There is another path which involves settling with the lessor of 2 evils to protect what we can in the now and furthering social movements and work towards getting what you want. But people ignore that because of their emotions. I am even a leftist and a lot of leftist responses lately have been aggravating. 

[ZIVERT]

2 minutes ago, If U Seek Amy said:

It is tricky. Trying to remain objective (take that for what you will) this is my take on various aspects related to this post:

 

1. Take polls with a grain of salt. They usually have very small sample sizes and have many problems scientifically with accuracy. They aren't to be completely ignored and do have valuable information if you fully review them, but people like using them because they can fulfill their confirmation bias and often try to push an agenda of some sort that skews reality. If you look at polls yourself, you can find just about any numbers you want. Often these polls are being answered and touted by more extreme people seeking them out than people who are not concerned. And numbers don't tell the full picture regardless. There is a huge number of US citizens you will only hear about and see on election day.

 

2. The recent Israel/Hamas conflict has many emotional. This has caused people to become short sighted and make sweeping conclusions in mass that will simmer as time goes on and events further unfold. So at least in the short-term people will be taking it out on him to have a scapegoat. Every President is the punching bag for the country when things go wrong typically whether they are at fault or not. 

 

3. Like with the media, people tend to mostly focus on the negatives of any President no matter who and ignore anything they have been successful with. As things are we will not likely see a President with a positive approval any time soon because no matter what you do you will anger people on some side, and they can tune into whatever their news source of choice is that purposefully enrages them for engagement at any time faster than ever. This skews reality for many and causes more angry reactions especially from internet frequenters who are louder.

 

4. Politics in America has always been notoriously slow and will continue to be so and people more than ever are struggling to deal with that as they are used to getting what they want when they want in this modern convenient society. This was done purposefully because of the problems with any single ruler or small group that forces radical change that ends up being even more damaging than a slower system. They both have pros and cons. Realistically Biden has been a relatively successful president legislatively compared to many Presidents (whether or not you like that legislature is up for your personal opinion) and America is handling inflation comparatively a lot better than most countries (and our cost of living/inflation is arguably most likely our biggest problem right now). I do not mean to imply that makes it okay and we shouldn't be doing more, but I do mean to say Biden and his admin are not the worst of people's problems when it comes to getting things done and swinging to the extreme other side in response is an immature and emotional response that lacks logic if people choose to do that. But when election time comes you will see people thinking more about this and data and people's opinions will likely shift a lot between now and election time in 2024 so this hate will liekly simmer a bit

 

5. Finally, a lot of leftists in particular are emotional over Israel/Hamas and having tunnel vision about Biden's response and is what going on mostly lately like stated above in part. I get why anyone would not want to support someone who doesn't do what they want them to do. Online definitely skews younger and these people are still new or relatively new to politics and the horrors of reality. I don't blame them for their feelings. This will calm down with time though. But like you said when you sit down and look at it even if you find Biden abhorrent for this Israel/Hamas conflict by letting Trump win you are going to be hurting more than Palestinians because of your emotional response (and likely causing an even more extreme US response against Palestine). You are free to have your opinion and vote (or non-vote if you so choose), but you will be still technically making a choice to hurt others if abortion is banned nationwide, if Trump takes an even more pro-Israel stance, if more minority rights are degraded, and more. In reality a non-vote is not the protest many think it is. I see why people think not voting is sending a message to do as they ask, but like stated, there is more that will be hurt by your protest of voting than you will be helping if successful. There is another path which involves settling with the lessor of 2 evils to protect what we can in the now and furthering social movements and work towards getting what you want. But people ignore that because of their emotions. I am even a leftist and a lot of leftist responses lately have been aggravating. 

Thank you for having the patience and prose to explain what many others probably feel but don’t feel like typing out - this is the best response to that particular question  

[If U Seek Amy]

1 hour ago, ZIVERT said:

Keep in mind that ATRL is an echo chamber and not necessarily a reflection of the average person in real life

This. Whether or not people like it ATRL skews heavily left and does make it an echo chamber because it is a lot of the same or similar views.

 

For many browsers of ATRL politics there will be the same few members who will probably say anyone who isn't them is basically a Republican. Ignore those responses. They are similar to MAGA individuals calling everyone RINOs who does not align fully with them and think in very much black and white

[If U Seek Amy]

1 minute ago, ZIVERT said:

Thank you for having the patience and prose to explain what many others probably feel but don’t feel like typing out - this is the best response to that particular question  

Thank you

[Bloodflowers.]

On 10/26/2023 at 9:02 AM, differentkindahigh said:

Biden is not on the Ballot in New Hampsire, Marianne Williamson is

 

The DNC have WARNED her to stop campagining. 

 

Things are going to get MESSY

 

I hope she is okay and safe, I wouldn't pass them trying to threaten her

 

[monologueNacafe]

3 hours ago, Anthinos said:

I don't live in the USA

So stay out of American politics

[monologueNacafe]

52 minutes ago, If U Seek Amy said:

 

 

4. Politics in America has always been notoriously slow and will continue to be so and people more than ever are struggling to deal with that as they are used to getting what they want when they want in this modern convenient society. 

This is such an asinine statement. 

[Bhabylon]

Didn’t realize we had so many genocide apologists here

[dawnettakins]

Joe Biden has got to go (via an open primary).

[If U Seek Amy]

1 hour ago, monologueNacafe said:

This is such an asinine statement. 

No it’s not  I even later stated that it does not make it right, but it does help explain a very small portion of why people are often angrier than before at politics. There are many reasons and it is extremely complicated. 

 

It is clear that it is slow in America politically and it is a fact that attention spans and patience have lowered on average in modern society in response to our advancement of technology and convenience of life. I can say for certain mine has. There is a ton of research available on it easily accessible. Thus when people experience displeasure politically and with world events they experience more discomfort with waiting and not seeing America politically deal with problems quickly and take it out online on them
 

You can take a read of MANY online posts that are baffled Biden has not made the entire US completely green energy in a few years in office or upset he hasn’t resolved every humanity crisis today already. Things that even with a super majority take time and work. So many Americans make demands of politicians that even in perfect conditions cannot be met in only 2-3 years. And I cannot believe I’m even defending most of them as most are corrupt trash anyway these days  But it is a clear reason imo why so many are more engaged nowadays than a lot of before. Society is not used to being so constantly connected and tuned in whenever they like so easily

[If U Seek Amy]

20 hours ago, Communion said:

Title updated to reflect new polling.

 

 

What I don’t really like about polls like this is per their survey methods it samples 1,009 adults 18 and older of random phone calls. Almost 160 million people voted in 2020. This is .0006% around if voters answering 💀 Based on who answers one day you could get almost anything and they even note the faults in their own study

[monologueNacafe]

1 hour ago, If U Seek Amy said:

No it’s not  I even later stated that it does not make it right, but it does help explain a very small portion of why people are often angrier than before at politics. There are many reasons and it is extremely complicated. 

 

It is clear that it is slow in America politically and it is a fact that attention spans and patience have lowered on average in modern society in response to our advancement of technology and convenience of life. I can say for certain mine has. There is a ton of research available on it easily accessible. Thus when people experience displeasure politically and with world events they experience more discomfort with waiting and not seeing America politically deal with problems quickly and take it out online on them
 

You can take a read of MANY online posts that are baffled Biden has not made the entire US completely green energy in a few years in office or upset he hasn’t resolved every humanity crisis today already. Things that even with a super majority take time and work. So many Americans make demands of politicians that even in perfect conditions cannot be met in only 2-3 years. And I cannot believe I’m even defending most of them as most are corrupt trash anyway these days  But it is a clear reason imo why so many are more engaged nowadays than a lot of before. Society is not used to being so constantly connected and tuned in whenever they like so easily

First, advancement in technology has little to do with patience with the political process IMO. If you have studies showing otherwise then post it...but it seems like you're basing all of this on social media which doesn't at all represent everyone. If anything, it's mostly a lack of education on how government is run that leads certain young people to think that things can happen overnight. 

 

Second, what evidence do you have that people are angrier now (aside from social media, which we didn't have in the past to document minute by minute political rants btw)? Are you exclusively talking about White people? Or... because  If anything, it's the opposite. People nowadays are largely complacent. They'll get mad and scream on social media but a month later they'll forget all about it. Do you think the majority of Black people during the CRM who had significantly fewer rights were both less angry and more patient? More patient in a political system they knew was unjust? Martin Luther King (and other leaders) heavily criticized gradualism, which is why they applied the political pressure they did and made significant change. 

 

And lastly...how can you say these people are corrupt in one breath and then argue that we should be more patient waiting on a corrupt system. If anything we need to be less patient and actually take to the streets.

Edited October 27, 2023 by monologueNacafe

[Breathe On Moi]

1 hour ago, If U Seek Amy said:

What I don’t really like about polls like this is per their survey methods it samples 1,009 adults 18 and older of random phone calls. Almost 160 million people voted in 2020. This is .0006% around if voters answering 💀 Based on who answers one day you could get almost anything and they even note the faults in their own study

correct. 

[Breathe On Moi]

3 hours ago, If U Seek Amy said:

It is tricky. Trying to remain objective (take that for what you will) this is my take on various aspects related to this post:

 

1. Take polls with a grain of salt. They usually have very small sample sizes and have many problems scientifically with accuracy. They aren't to be completely ignored and do have valuable information if you fully review them, but people like using them because they can fulfill their confirmation bias and often try to push an agenda of some sort that skews reality. If you look at polls yourself, you can find just about any numbers you want. Often these polls are being answered and touted by more extreme people seeking them out than people who are not concerned. And numbers don't tell the full picture regardless. There is a huge number of US citizens you will only hear about and see on election day.

 

2. The recent Israel/Hamas conflict has many emotional. This has caused people to become short sighted and make sweeping conclusions in mass that will simmer as time goes on and events further unfold. So at least in the short-term people will be taking it out on him to have a scapegoat. Every President is the punching bag for the country when things go wrong typically whether they are at fault or not. 

 

3. Like with the media, people tend to mostly focus on the negatives of any President no matter who and ignore anything they have been successful with. As things are we will not likely see a President with a positive approval any time soon because no matter what you do you will anger people on some side, and they can tune into whatever their news source of choice is that purposefully enrages them for engagement at any time faster than ever. This skews reality for many and causes more angry reactions especially from internet frequenters who are louder.

 

4. Politics in America has always been notoriously slow and will continue to be so and people more than ever are struggling to deal with that as they are used to getting what they want when they want in this modern convenient society. This was done purposefully because of the problems with any single ruler or small group that forces radical change that ends up being even more damaging than a slower system. They both have pros and cons. Realistically Biden has been a relatively successful president legislatively compared to many Presidents (whether or not you like that legislature is up for your personal opinion) and America is handling inflation comparatively a lot better than most countries (and our cost of living/inflation is arguably most likely our biggest problem right now). I do not mean to imply that makes it okay and we shouldn't be doing more, but I do mean to say Biden and his admin are not the worst of people's problems when it comes to getting things done and swinging to the extreme other side in response is an immature and emotional response that lacks logic if people choose to do that. But when election time comes you will see people thinking more about this and data and people's opinions will likely shift a lot between now and election time in 2024 so this hate will liekly simmer a bit

 

5. Finally, a lot of leftists in particular are emotional over Israel/Hamas and having tunnel vision about Biden's response and is what going on mostly lately like stated above in part. I get why anyone would not want to support someone who doesn't do what they want them to do. Online definitely skews younger and these people are still new or relatively new to politics and the horrors of reality. I don't blame them for their feelings. This will calm down with time though. But like you said when you sit down and look at it even if you find Biden abhorrent for this Israel/Hamas conflict by letting Trump win you are going to be hurting more than Palestinians because of your emotional response (and likely causing an even more extreme US response against Palestine). You are free to have your opinion and vote (or non-vote if you so choose), but you will be still technically making a choice to hurt others if abortion is banned nationwide, if Trump takes an even more pro-Israel stance, if more minority rights are degraded, and more. In reality a non-vote is not the protest many think it is. I see why people think not voting is sending a message to do as they ask, but like stated, there is more that will be hurt by your protest of voting than you will be helping if successful. There is another path which involves settling with the lessor of 2 evils to protect what we can in the now and furthering social movements and work towards getting what you want. But people ignore that because of their emotions. I am even a leftist and a lot of leftist responses lately have been aggravating. 

correct x2.

[Kassi]

6 hours ago, Anthinos said:

I don't live in the USA so I don't know how good or bad Joe Biden really is but from the outside he is doing an okay or even good job. I don't understand why so many Americans hate him. I also don't understand how anyone can vote for the Republicans. They are so far to the right it's scary. Plus you have a conservative majority in the SC. I also don't understand the leftists who refuse to vote for the Democrats because of the Israel/Palestine conflict. You do realize that the alternative would be much worse for Palestinians? The left needs to stop with this political puritanism. 

 

I hope the Democrats win again. If Trump wins... it would be a disaster for the entire western world, for progressive movements, minorities and democracy.

You kinda ate with this. 

[monologueNacafe]

How has gradualism worked for us so far btw? We sort of can't afford that now since humanity is sort of headed towards self-destruction very quickly 

Edited October 27, 2023 by monologueNacafe

[monologueNacafe]

3 hours ago, If U Seek Amy said:

This. Whether or not people like it ATRL skews heavily left and does make it an echo chamber because it is a lot of the same or similar views.

 

For many browsers of ATRL politics there will be the same few members who will probably say anyone who isn't them is basically a Republican. Ignore those responses. They are similar to MAGA individuals calling everyone RINOs who does not align fully with them and think in very much black and white

You recognize this but are also using what you see on atrl and the internet to make generalizations 

[GhostBox]

1 hour ago, monologueNacafe said:

How has gradualism worked for us so far btw? We sort of can't afford that now since humanity is sort of headed towards self-destruction very quickly 

You either take gradualism or nothing which is what the other side is offering. 

[Communion]

6 hours ago, If U Seek Amy said:

It is tricky. Trying to remain objective (take that for what you will) this is my take on various aspects related to this post:

 

1. Take polls with a grain of salt. They usually have very small sample sizes and have many problems scientifically with accuracy. They aren't to be completely ignored and do have valuable information if you fully review them, but people like using them because they can fulfill their confirmation bias and often try to push an agenda of some sort that skews reality. If you look at polls yourself, you can find just about any numbers you want. Often these polls are being answered and touted by more extreme people seeking them out than people who are not concerned. And numbers don't tell the full picture regardless. There is a huge number of US citizens you will only hear about and see on election day.

 

2. The recent Israel/Hamas conflict has many emotional. This has caused people to become short sighted and make sweeping conclusions in mass that will simmer as time goes on and events further unfold. So at least in the short-term people will be taking it out on him to have a scapegoat. Every President is the punching bag for the country when things go wrong typically whether they are at fault or not. 

 

3. Like with the media, people tend to mostly focus on the negatives of any President no matter who and ignore anything they have been successful with. As things are we will not likely see a President with a positive approval any time soon because no matter what you do you will anger people on some side, and they can tune into whatever their news source of choice is that purposefully enrages them for engagement at any time faster than ever. This skews reality for many and causes more angry reactions especially from internet frequenters who are louder.

 

4. Politics in America has always been notoriously slow and will continue to be so and people more than ever are struggling to deal with that as they are used to getting what they want when they want in this modern convenient society. This was done purposefully because of the problems with any single ruler or small group that forces radical change that ends up being even more damaging than a slower system. They both have pros and cons. Realistically Biden has been a relatively successful president legislatively compared to many Presidents (whether or not you like that legislature is up for your personal opinion) and America is handling inflation comparatively a lot better than most countries (and our cost of living/inflation is arguably most likely our biggest problem right now). I do not mean to imply that makes it okay and we shouldn't be doing more, but I do mean to say Biden and his admin are not the worst of people's problems when it comes to getting things done and swinging to the extreme other side in response is an immature and emotional response that lacks logic if people choose to do that. But when election time comes you will see people thinking more about this and data and people's opinions will likely shift a lot between now and election time in 2024 so this hate will liekly simmer a bit

 

5. Finally, a lot of leftists in particular are emotional over Israel/Hamas and having tunnel vision about Biden's response and is what going on mostly lately like stated above in part. I get why anyone would not want to support someone who doesn't do what they want them to do. Online definitely skews younger and these people are still new or relatively new to politics and the horrors of reality. I don't blame them for their feelings. This will calm down with time though. But like you said when you sit down and look at it even if you find Biden abhorrent for this Israel/Hamas conflict by letting Trump win you are going to be hurting more than Palestinians because of your emotional response (and likely causing an even more extreme US response against Palestine). You are free to have your opinion and vote (or non-vote if you so choose), but you will be still technically making a choice to hurt others if abortion is banned nationwide, if Trump takes an even more pro-Israel stance, if more minority rights are degraded, and more. In reality a non-vote is not the protest many think it is. I see why people think not voting is sending a message to do as they ask, but like stated, there is more that will be hurt by your protest of voting than you will be helping if successful. There is another path which involves settling with the lessor of 2 evils to protect what we can in the now and furthering social movements and work towards getting what you want. But people ignore that because of their emotions. I am even a leftist and a lot of leftist responses lately have been aggravating. 

 

2 hours ago, Breathe On Moi said:

correct. 

It becomes clear how Americans are so easily propagandized to side with Israel when people can co-sign a post and it receive multiple likes despite said post revealing that the member who made it doesn't understand how statistics works.

 

[slik]

I don't like Biden's handling of Gaza/Israel and I believe Palestine should be Free - but if the two choices are Biden and Trump in 2024 I would still vote Biden, because if Trump gets back in office the ramifications would be devastating.