HEAVYONIT Posted October 26, 2023 Posted October 26, 2023 1 hour ago, HappierJealousy said: Look at here guys, this whole essay is just a great example of the typical delusion of the little monster They really believe Gaga actually “change” something musically, but in fact she just followed the trend and released a very successful album during the electronic pop trend at the end of 2000s. She was not even the first MPG to follow that sound (It was Britney). More ironically, both the trend and Gaga’s career ended immediately and almost at the same time She DID NOT change anything in music, she DID NOT invent anything special, all the thing she has done was already done by Janet, Kylie or Madonna. Meanwhile, Taylor Swift is one of the biggest reason why female singer-songwriter(Lana/SZA/Olivia) is dominating the world recently, her success proves that a female artist can be the biggest pop star in the world even though she only rely on her own pen, writing her own personal story, or even though she used to be country artist. She proves that a solo female can also move people to watch her concert like MJ/Elton and those rock bands. She is so special and she is THE FIRST FEMALE in so many different aspects in music history, and that’s we called IMPACT that Gaga could only wish, and she will keep her impact on next generation artists like Olivia. If anything Gaga has impacted, is that the wigs, gimmicks and meat dress can only give you a cute 3-years career, and she will also keep impacting artists like…Ava Max You typed all that out and I stoped reading after the first sentence! Hope you enjoyed your delusional self-convincing of all of that!! 2 1
Le Grande Posted October 26, 2023 Posted October 26, 2023 She's more of a phenomenon at this stage now.
ninetiesceline Posted October 26, 2023 Posted October 26, 2023 (edited) 21 hours ago, Rev8 said: Maybe something like Celine she is like the 2nd best selling female artist behind Madonna but for some reason, she doesn't hold as much impact (outside of sales ig) and influence as Whitney or Mariah tbh, even Janet has a bigger blueprint than Celine at this point. Y'all need to drop this "doesn't hold as much impact outside of sales" against Céline and pretend as if her music isnt continously used in singing competitions. Literally one of the most influential vocalist of the last 30 years. Like how important of an artist she is in countries like Nigeria, Jamaica etc. The amount of times she gets referenced in television shows, in movies, the people who impersonates her. Pop culture moments from the 1999 Oscars all the way to the 2019 met gala. Numerous artists have cited her as one of their major influences such as Ariana Grande, Sam Smith, Leona Lewis, Frank Ocean, Vanessa Hudgens, Lea Michele etc. Not to mention how she inspired a generation of vocalist and artists both in English and French market, her French albums always are cited as an inspiration by numerous French music artists in pursuing a career. Celine pushed French music to non-francophone countries and revitalized Vegas residencies back when no mainstream artist was doing it. Now we have Bruno Mars, Drake, Adele, Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Britney Spears, all artists from different generations, thanks to her for pioneering it. There's a reason why only Madonna sold more records than her. You cant sell 250M records and have no impact outside it lmao. Edited October 26, 2023 by ninetiesceline 1
Rev8 Posted October 26, 2023 Posted October 26, 2023 1 hour ago, ninetiesceline said: Y'all need to drop this "doesn't hold as much impact outside of sales" against Céline and pretend as if her music isnt continously used in singing competitions. Literally one of the most influential vocalist of the last 30 years. Like how important of an artist she is in countries like Nigeria, Jamaica etc. The amount of times she gets referenced in television shows, in movies, the people who impersonates her. Pop culture moments from the 1999 Oscars all the way to the 2019 met gala. Numerous artists have cited her as one of their major influences such as Ariana Grande, Sam Smith, Leona Lewis, Frank Ocean, Vanessa Hudgens, Lea Michele etc. Not to mention how she inspired a generation of vocalist and artists both in English and French market, her French albums always are cited as an inspiration by numerous French music artists in pursuing a career. Celine pushed French music to non-francophone countries and revitalized Vegas residencies back when no mainstream artist was doing it. Now we have Bruno Mars, Drake, Adele, Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Britney Spears, all artists from different generations, thanks to her for pioneering it. There's a reason why only Madonna sold more records than her. You cant sell 250M records and have no impact outside it lmao. I think I've said it pretty clearly. 1.Am not saying that she doesn't have impact/influence. 2.Being The 2nd best selling female artist (according to ChArTmAstEr, she is Much More ahead of Whitney and Mariah), the influence/impact that she has - is not as big as you would expect it to be (because of that success that she has) Celine stands in a better place compared to Taylor imo, but compared with her peers/fellow legends - it isn't as impressive. And it's even confusing at times. Not sure how I am not clear what I am saying. Or do u think she has had more influence than Mariah and Whitney? Prince?
ninetiesceline Posted October 27, 2023 Posted October 27, 2023 5 hours ago, Rev8 said: Or do u think she has had more influence than Mariah and Whitney? Prince? Its not really about whether who has more impact. Celine has had influential impact as a vocalist, in pop culture, both in English and French, and in live entertainment. That alone equates her commercial success. Even in fashion lol
Rev8 Posted October 27, 2023 Posted October 27, 2023 9 hours ago, ninetiesceline said: Its not really about whether who has more impact. Celine has had influential impact as a vocalist, in pop culture, both in English and French, and in live entertainment. That alone equates her commercial success. Even in fashion lol No, that's not the point that I was trying to make - and what You were trying to argue. I never said that Celine doesn't have influence/impact (or have none at all). I sad that For her huge success (only 2nd to Madonna), her impact/influence isn't as big as it would be if someone like Whitney and Mariah's. 1
Funnyfatty Posted October 27, 2023 Posted October 27, 2023 On 10/26/2023 at 3:52 PM, HappierJealousy said: Look at here guys, this whole essay is just a great example of the typical delusion of the little monster They really believe Gaga actually “change” something musically, but in fact she just followed the trend and released a very successful album during the electronic pop trend at the end of 2000s. She was not even the first MPG to follow that sound (It was Britney). More ironically, both the trend and Gaga’s career ended immediately and almost at the same time She DID NOT change anything in music, she DID NOT invent anything special, all the thing she has done was already done by Janet, Kylie or Madonna. Meanwhile, Taylor Swift is one of the biggest reason why female singer-songwriter(Lana/SZA/Olivia) is dominating the world recently, her success proves that a female artist can be the biggest pop star in the world even though she only rely on her own pen, writing her own personal story, or even though she used to be country artist. She proves that a solo female can also move people to watch her concert like MJ/Elton and those rock bands. She is so special and she is THE FIRST FEMALE in so many different aspects in music history, and that’s we called IMPACT that Gaga could only wish, and she will keep her impact on next generation artists like Olivia. If anything Gaga has impacted, is that the wigs, gimmicks and meat dress can only give you a cute 3-years career, and she will also keep impacting artists like…Ava Max You are so wrong and that is the only right. Imagine coming for Gagas world domination and impact. Something Taylor never had and never will have.
byzantium Posted October 27, 2023 Posted October 27, 2023 On 10/25/2023 at 2:10 PM, Rev8 said: Maybe something like Celine she is like the 2nd best selling female artist behind Madonna but for some reason, she doesn't hold as much impact (outside of sales ig) and influence as Whitney or Mariah tbh, even Janet has a bigger blueprint than Celine at this point. So I think it will be the same for Taylor her stans are already pushing the "she has sold../had hits../tours..", and try to push that she is standing next to Madonna or MJ when it's not , MJ and Madonna have sales, but they also have huge influence and changed the world in different ways. They pushed the envelope. I am a fan of Taylor and it's funny because even when I give her compliments how she changes the industry in her own way (positive) -her fans instantly attack me because I didn't say more But it's the truth at this point. The Swifties and Hive are going at each other rn, altho Taylor has had bigger success than Beyonce overall for some time now, why reply? Especially now when the only way Beyonce is rivaling Taylor, is with her tour (and she is not even going to edge her out or be equal from calculations) - They reply because Beyonce feels much bigger than her sales..she makes people turn her heads as much as Taylor, but with much less sales/hits etc.. (and that is not to say that Beyonce is a smaller legend because she doesn't have the sales that Taylor has ) Don’t come for Celine like this. She is absolutely a legend. She is the biggest non-native English speaking artist of all time and queen of the power ballad. 1
Rev8 Posted October 27, 2023 Posted October 27, 2023 2 hours ago, byzantium said: Don’t come for Celine like this. She is absolutely a legend. She is the biggest non-native English speaking artist of all time and queen of the power ballad. Yall really see the world in Black and White who tf is coming for Celine 1 1
lael Posted May 14 Posted May 14 On 10/21/2023 at 9:44 PM, JaXXXon said: No but Gaga's Poker Face, Shallow and Bad Romance are overall bigger hits in Europe than any Taylor song both on the charts and certifications. Taylor has been around for 17 years and a decade relevant in Europe (depends on who you ask, some claim it started in 2008), so after 10 studio albums and all those singles and albums she still hasn't caught up to Gaga in Europe? Gaga had three monster eras in Europe so that tells you who is overall more popular. I agree Taylor is right now but even then Dua Lipa currently is very popular I'd say as well. The touring gross. Man, do you know that Harry Styles broke Michael Jackson's record? Do you know that the entire top 5 of the biggest tours will consist of tours from last year and this? Harry, Coldplay, Beyoncé and Taylor? So just because Taylor booked the biggest tour in Europe doesn't mean she's bigger than Madonna there unless you mean Harry Styles and Beyoncé are bigger than Michael Jackson and Coldplay is bigger than Madonna. Biggest tour in Europe? Beyonce, Madonna, Shakira and Lady Gaga have toured in way more European countries than Taylor.
swissman Posted May 14 Posted May 14 I think at this moment she's moreso an icon, but due to her immense popularity and success later she probably will be seen as a legend, even though I don't think she fulfils that criteria (being known first and foremost for your artistry...I think truthfully her success is her biggest talking point) to the fullest.
swissman Posted May 14 Posted May 14 On 10/25/2023 at 2:10 PM, Rev8 said: Maybe something like Celine she is like the 2nd best selling female artist behind Madonna but for some reason, she doesn't hold as much impact (outside of sales ig) and influence as Whitney or Mariah tbh, even Janet has a bigger blueprint than Celine at this point. So I think it will be the same for Taylor her stans are already pushing the "she has sold../had hits../tours..", and try to push that she is standing next to Madonna or MJ when it's not , MJ and Madonna have sales, but they also have huge influence and changed the world in different ways. They pushed the envelope. I am a fan of Taylor and it's funny because even when I give her compliments how she changes the industry in her own way (positive) -her fans instantly attack me because I didn't say more But it's the truth at this point. The Swifties and Hive are going at each other rn, altho Taylor has had bigger success than Beyonce overall for some time now, why reply? Especially now when the only way Beyonce is rivaling Taylor, is with her tour (and she is not even going to edge her out or be equal from calculations) - They reply because Beyonce feels much bigger than her sales..she makes people turn her heads as much as Taylor, but with much less sales/hits etc.. (and that is not to say that Beyonce is a smaller legend because she doesn't have the sales that Taylor has ) Céline doesn't have to have impact to be a legend. She just needs to have her reputation as an artist precede her in a major way, for that to be the case. imo, impact relates more to that of an icon, where you are representing something: a style, a time, an approach, a level of success, etc.
swissman Posted May 14 Posted May 14 Yet again, ATRL needs to really consider what an icon is and what a legend is. A legend, like the root word, is someone who is firstly and widely revered for a certain level of artistic achievement more than any sense of success. You don't really need to know anything about Katharine Hepburn or Meryl Streep to know that they are acting legends, probably because the way you've heard them discussed before tells you that people have a certain kind of reverence for their skill and artistic achievements in what they do and that is something talked about more than their box office. Traditional "legends" are stories passed down from generations, and so this factors into how we use the word "legend" in entertainment too. It's not just about success or popularity but an artistic reputation that is highly regarded. An icon, like the root word, is meant to represent something. You don't really need to know anything about Marilyn Monroe to know that she represents Old Hollywood, sex symbols, and that her life and story represents a certain type of Hollywood story. An icon has to do with influence and recognition for achievement. However, when you see her image (iconic) or see her or her work referenced (iconic), it usually has nothing to do with her actual talents (which she certainly had!) but for what she symbolizes and the lasting impact her symbol still has. An icon, traditionally is an image meant to depict something more complex than the image itself conveys. It could be a religious figure (the most literal "icons") or just a symbol of a woman meaning "women's washroom" which says you more than just "woman". Generally, if what you are regarded for first and foremost is popularity or image, then you're probably an icon because that means you symbolize a style, a time, a genre, or even an industry. Overtime, I do think the these two get a bit interchangeable, and certainly some fulfil both qualities, but always we can sort of pull it apart to see if someone fits more on one side than the other. For example, Elvis is probably considered a legend to most, but examining it closer he's actually more an icon than he is a legend due to how we remember him: for his image, for his popularity, for what he represented socially. We don't necessarily think of him artistically first and foremost or even at all. We don't even need to hear his music to explain his status. On the other hand, his less successful contemporary Chuck Berry is a legend, because when we do think of him, it's for his artistic talents and not what he represented to culture, nor his image, etc. Though Chuck never came close to the cultural dominance of Elvis, his reputation lives on as a rock-and-roll pioneer, and thus he's considered a legend. And if you don't know him at all, you kind of do need to hear his music to explain his status because it's his music not the popularity of his music that is the talking point. Sometimes it is both at the same time, like Madonna who is as much respected for what she achieved artistically in pop as for what she represents for it. Neither are better than the other, per se, it would just depend on what you're valuing in any given moment. 1
Click Clack Posted May 14 Posted May 14 2 hours ago, lael said: Biggest tour in Europe? Beyonce, Madonna, Shakira and Lady Gaga have toured in way more European countries than Taylor. this bump nsnsksnsms
wastedpotential Posted May 14 Posted May 14 2 hours ago, lael said: Biggest tour in Europe? Beyonce, Madonna, Shakira and Lady Gaga have toured in way more European countries than Taylor. Sure they've done more arena shows and in some smaller markets (though Taylor is touring 14 countries and 20 cities this go-around), but Taylor is doing a **** ton of stadium shows Taylor career total - 57 (6 RST, 51 Eras) Beyonce career total - 40 (2 MCWT, 17 FWT, 21 RWT) Madonna career total - 91 (11 WTGWT, 12 BAWT, 6 TGS, 8 CT, 36 S&ST, 17 MDNAT, 1 RHT) Shakira career total - 7 from the Oral Fixation Tour Lady Gaga career total - 13 (5 BTWB, 2 AR:TAPB, 6 Chrom Ball) We'll have to see what Taylor does on her next European tour, but I could see her playing in many of the same places she is now, plus the few countries she missed like Belgium, Norway, Denmark, Czechia, and maybe Greece. Other than that, I don't know how you could consider anyone but Madonna to have a bigger touring record in Europe, and The Eras Tour is playing 15 more European stadiums than Madonna was at her touring peak there, so as far as the biggest single tour...
Achilles. Posted May 14 Posted May 14 3 minutes ago, wastedpotential said: Other than that, I don't know how you could consider anyone but Madonna to have a bigger touring record in Europe, and The Eras Tour is playing 15 more European stadiums than Madonna was at her touring peak there, so as far as the biggest single tour... Tina Turner once played to 3 million people over the course of 121 European shows in a single tour, including many stadium dates.
wastedpotential Posted May 14 Posted May 14 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Achilles. said: Tina Turner once played to 3 million people over the course of 121 European shows in a single tour, including many stadium dates. Well yes, but the dupe I quoted didn't mention miss Tina so I chose to not mention that fact Plus, it's likely Taylor will clear 3M attendees over the European leg of Eras Edited May 14 by wastedpotential
StonedSoulPicnic Posted May 14 Posted May 14 She's almost there. She'll definitely be a first ballot Rock Hall inductee.
lael Posted May 14 Posted May 14 1 hour ago, wastedpotential said: Sure they've done more arena shows and in some smaller markets (though Taylor is touring 14 countries and 20 cities this go-around), but Taylor is doing a **** ton of stadium shows Taylor career total - 57 (6 RST, 51 Eras) Beyonce career total - 40 (2 MCWT, 17 FWT, 21 RWT) Madonna career total - 91 (11 WTGWT, 12 BAWT, 6 TGS, 8 CT, 36 S&ST, 17 MDNAT, 1 RHT) Shakira career total - 7 from the Oral Fixation Tour Lady Gaga career total - 13 (5 BTWB, 2 AR:TAPB, 6 Chrom Ball) We'll have to see what Taylor does on her next European tour, but I could see her playing in many of the same places she is now, plus the few countries she missed like Belgium, Norway, Denmark, Czechia, and maybe Greece. Other than that, I don't know how you could consider anyone but Madonna to have a bigger touring record in Europe, and The Eras Tour is playing 15 more European stadiums than Madonna was at her touring peak there, so as far as the biggest single tour... If you are going my stadium tours yes I agree. In terms of number of countries toured however, she ishttps://youtu.be/RAMYyZ7XdCg?si=rJqeQvqLgaTkiZNa far from the top:
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