charts discussion Final predictions (10/28): Taylor #1, 60+pts ahead of #2

[Badgalbriel]

Just now, Saintlor said:

Will every single Taylor album (aside from Evermore) end up going diamond (maybe including TV sales)?

If we could add up the originals and the Taylor's Versions, then yes, she would have at least 6 diamond albums. 

[Badgalbriel]

The last page

[Cruel Summer]

3 minutes ago, Saintlor said:

Will every single Taylor album (aside from Evermore) end up going diamond (maybe including TV sales)?

Unfortunately, some of her older albums will likely stall, as the RIAA most likely won't combine them with the new Taylor's Versions, barring a change in their usual practices. But if you do combine them just for curiosity's sake, yes, it seems like all her first ten albums besides Evermore could reach the ten million unit mark thanks in part to the rerecordings. Reputation and Folklore might take a very long time to get there, especially the latter (since the former will get a rerecording to help out). Even Lover and Midnights will take years, but seem pretty likely to get there one day.

[Maroonx]

1 hour ago, Artistofthedecade said:

 

The back to back clocks

 

Denying Bilboard's numbers to cope is crazy nnn 

It was back to back stomp. I actually felt bad and embarrassed for the kid hahahah 

[Feanor]

8 hours ago, Feanor said:

 

Taylor's eligible album certifications, all based on data by Billboard/Luminate, RIAA, HDD or (for 'evermore' only) UKMix:

(Sources all linked)

 

'Taylor Swift' → 7xP*

(*no recent figures, so it's the most recent RIAA certification, from Dec. 2017)

'Fearless' - 10.7M units → 10xP

(as of Oct. 2022)

'Speak Now' - 7.8M units → 7xP

(as of May 2023)

'RED' - 7.6M units → 7xP

(as of Oct. 2022)

'1989' - 12.3M units → 12xP

(as of Aug. 2023)

'reputation' - 5.1M + 0.8M = 5.9M units → 5xP

(as of Oct. 2022 + units this year)

'Lover' - 5.9M units → 6xP

(up to date, will hit 6M this week)

'folklore' - 5.0M units → 5xP

(as of Sep. 2023)

'evermore' - 0.57M + 1.22M + 0.57M + 0.68M = 3.0M units → 3xP

(2020 units + 2021 units + 2022 units + 2023 units)

'Midnights' - 6.0M units → 6xP

(up to date, will hit 6M this week)

 

'The Holiday Collection EP' → 1xP*

(*no recent figures, so it's the most recent RIAA certification, from Jul. 2018)

'Fearless (TV)' - 1.8M units → 1xP

(as of Jul. 2023)

'RED (TV)' - 3.3M units → 3xP

(as of Jul. 2023)

'Speak Now (TV)' - 1.4M units → 1xP

(up to date)

 

This is as official as it gets, and even then many of these numbers are outdated by months or years. Still, even from what we know publicly, her eligible album certifications add up to 74M units. She's undercertified by over 20M units, not just "4-5M".

Afaik, RIAA also doesn't differentiate between premium and free streams, unlike Luminate, so all of these are actually even higher with RIAA's formula (as evidenced by 'Fearless' being Diamond in 2017, but only hitting 10M units in the 2020s).

 

I also forgot to mention that as double albums, the physical sales of the TVs will count double, so 'Fearless TV' would actually be 2xPlatinum eligible, as it sold 144k physical copies in just the week its vinyl were released. So that makes it 75M eligible album units, just from public data, since you liked to know @suburbannature

[Klein]

8 hours ago, Feanor said:

 

Taylor's eligible album certifications, all based on data by Billboard/Luminate, RIAA, HDD or (for 'evermore' only) UKMix:

(Sources all linked)

 

'Taylor Swift' → 7xP*

(*no recent figures, so it's the most recent RIAA certification, from Dec. 2017)

'Fearless' - 10.7M units → 10xP

(as of Oct. 2022)

'Speak Now' - 7.8M units → 7xP

(as of May 2023)

'RED' - 7.6M units → 7xP

(as of Oct. 2022)

'1989' - 12.3M units → 12xP

(as of Aug. 2023)

'reputation' - 5.1M + 0.8M = 5.9M units → 5xP

(as of Oct. 2022 + units this year)

'Lover' - 5.9M units → 6xP

(up to date, will hit 6M this week)

'folklore' - 5.0M units → 5xP

(as of Sep. 2023)

'evermore' - 0.57M + 1.22M + 0.57M + 0.68M = 3.0M units → 3xP

(2020 units + 2021 units + 2022 units + 2023 units)

'Midnights' - 6.0M units → 6xP

(up to date, will hit 6M this week)

 

'The Holiday Collection EP' → 1xP*

(*no recent figures, so it's the most recent RIAA certification, from Jul. 2018)

'Fearless (TV)' - 1.8M units → 1xP

(as of Jul. 2023)

'RED (TV)' - 3.3M units → 3xP

(as of Jul. 2023)

'Speak Now (TV)' - 1.4M units → 1xP

(up to date)

 

This is as official as it gets, and even then many of these numbers are outdated by months or years. Still, even from what we know publicly, her eligible album certifications add up to 74M units. She's undercertified by over 20M units, not just "4-5M".

Afaik, RIAA also doesn't differentiate between premium and free streams, unlike Luminate, so all of these are actually even higher with RIAA's formula (as evidenced by 'Fearless' being Diamond in 2017, but only hitting 10M units in the 2020s).

 

5 minutes ago, Feanor said:

I also forgot to mention that as double albums, the physical sales of the TVs will count double, so 'Fearless TV' would actually be 2xPlatinum eligible, as it sold 144k physical copies in just the week its vinyl were released. So that makes it 75M eligible album units, just from public data, since you liked to know @suburbannature

Now that's what I call a clock if I ever saw one. 

[Maroonx]

@Artistofthedecade @Klein The funniest thing is that I keep seeing random Taylor digs from this member in different threads after he got clocked from all sides in this same thread.  

[WildHeart]

8 minutes ago, Maroonx said:

@Artistofthedecade @Klein The funniest thing is that I keep seeing random Taylor digs from this member in different threads after he got clocked from all sides in this same thread.  

We were living in a different universe and he was living in different threads 

[Maroonx]

3 minutes ago, Artistofthedecade said:

We were living in a different universe and he was living in different threads 

poor cow... i'll pray for ha  x

[suburbannature]

Y'all did all that, finding every number you could (no matter how dodgy, even from UK Mix forum), and replying to each other in your echo chamber just to support my original post - Mariah is still ahead with both of their recerts considered (Merry Christmas, for instance, is Diamond-eligible) but that Taylor will likely eventually pass. 

 

And at the end of the day, Mariah did that without albums being kept alive longer due to streaming and the ridiculous equivalent units formula. 

[Feanor]

1 hour ago, suburbannature said:

Y'all did all that, finding every number you could (no matter how dodgy, even from UK Mix forum),

The only album for which UKMix was used as a source was 'evermore', as explicitly mentioned. And even for that one, numbers from oldbloke were used and if you know literally anything about charts then you'd know how well-regarded oldbloke was in the chart community. For literally every other of the 14 albums listed, Luminate, HDD or RIAA data was used, so tell me how are any of these dodgy?

 

1 hour ago, suburbannature said:

and replying to each other in your echo chamber just to support my original post - Mariah is still ahead with both of their recerts considered (Merry Christmas, for instance, is Diamond-eligible) but that Taylor will likely eventually pass. 

I did not question any post, I merely proved your statement of Taylor being under certified by just "4-5 million" units as false.

 

1 hour ago, suburbannature said:

And at the end of the day, Mariah did that without albums being kept alive longer due to streaming and the ridiculous equivalent units formula. 

The equivalent units formula has been an industry-wide accepted form of measuring success for almost a decade now, because the industry went through a tectonic shift with streaming and formulas had to be adapted to reflect this new reality. And it's not like Taylor's level of success is a common occurrence. Literally no other female artist right now is even close to Mariah/Madonna/Barbra.

 

So it's high time to leave behind this bitterness over streaming and SPS units, especially when they have also been incredibly kind to Mariah and are basically the reason why MC reached Diamond-eligibilty and why AIWFCIY has become an annual chart topper.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Feanor

[suburbannature]

1 minute ago, Feanor said:

The only album for which UKMix was used as a source was 'evermore', as explicitly mentioned. And even for that one, numbers from oldbloke were used and if you know literally anything about charts then you'd know how well-regarded oldbloke was in the chart community. For literally every other of the 14 albums listed, Luminate, HDD or RIAA data was used, so tell me how are any of these dodgy?

 

I did not question any post, I merely proved your statement of Taylor being under certified by just "4-5 million" units as false.

 

The equivalent units formula has been an industry-wide accepted form of measuring success for almost a decade now, because the industry went through a tectonic shift with streaming and formulas had to be adapted to reflect this new reality. And it's not like Taylor's level of success is a common occurrence. Literally no other female artist right now is even close to Mariah/Madonna/Barbra.

 

So it's high time to leave behind this bitterness over streaming and SPS units, especially when they have also been incredibly kind to Mariah and are basically the reason why MC reached Diamond-eligibilty and why AIWFCIY has become an annual chart topper.

 

 

Sweetie, Mariah already had two Diamond albums and a 9x Platinum from the physical era. And Merry Christmas had already sold 15 million physical with AIWFCIY already being the definitive modern Christmas classic that dominated the Holiday 100 and radio. It wasn't eligible to re-chart until the 2010s.  You are just saying **** now.

 

I

[Feanor]

20 minutes ago, suburbannature said:

Sweetie, Mariah already had two Diamond albums and a 9x Platinum from the physical era. And Merry Christmas had already sold 15 million physical with AIWFCIY already being the definitive modern Christmas classic that dominated the Holiday 100 and radio. It wasn't eligible to re-chart until the 2010s.  You are just saying **** now.

 

I

And you are not?

 

Firstly, no one talked about her debut, 'Music Box' or 'Daydream', so no need to pivot the conversation into a new direction.

Secondly, worldwide sales of MC have no relevance whatsoever to this conversation about US stats & certifications, so once again let's not change the topic.

And thirdly, AIWFCIY was allowed to re-chart at the peak of the digital era, like you said, but it didn't become a #1 until after the streaming era kicked off. Just how MC only became Diamond-eligible after the RIAA included streams in their certifications.

 

So yes, Mariah has indeed reached these two milestones thanks to streaming and SPS. So let's stick to these two truths instead of bringing up some crap that has no bearing to what is actually being discussed.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Feanor

[suburbannature]

5 minutes ago, Feanor said:

And you are not?

 

Firstly, no one talked about her debut, 'Music Box' or 'Daydream', so no need to pivot the conversation into a new direction.

Secondly, worldwide sales of MC have no relevance whatsoever to this conversation about US stats & certifications, so once again let's not change the topic.

And thirdly, AIWFCIY was allowed to re-chart at the peak of the digital era, like you said, but it didn't become a #1 until after the streaming era kicked off. Just how MC only became Diamond-eligible after the RIAA includes streams in their certifications.

 

So yes, Mariah has indeed eached these two milestones thanks to streaming and SPS. So let's stick to these two truths instead of bringing up some crap that has no bearing to what is actually being discussed.

 

It's not a pivot. You made a desperate yet transparent implication that a large portion of her success (namely that diamond album) was contingent on a skewed SPS formula when she achieved exponentially more in the physical era. 60-70 million albums, 80+ weeks at #1, two Diamond albums. 

 

It didn't become a #1 until after streaming era kicked off because it wasn't eligible to chart in the early 2010s and has continued to grow organically for years. I know that's not a word you would be familiar with. You think the streaming era is what made AIWFCIY a classic when it had been for two decades prior to it reaching #1?  

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by suburbannature

[suburbannature]

But thank you for the stats that backed up my original point - Mariah is still ahead with their recerts considered and Taylor will eventually pass thanks to streaming. 

[1989]

1 hour ago, suburbannature said:

And at the end of the day, Mariah did that without albums being kept alive longer due to streaming and the ridiculous equivalent units formula. 

And at the end of the day, you’ll still be fuming in Taylor threads. See you in the next one, I guess. 

[suburbannature]

Just now, 1989 said:

And at the end of the day, you’ll still be fuming in Taylor threads. See you in the next one, I guess. 

Swifties when things don't go there way: immediate personal jab and a tired fUmIng remark.

 

 

[WildHeart]

Taylor - 81M units (as multiple posts stated) 

Mariah - 74M certified albums 

 

Taylor will end next week with almost 83M units so as long as Mariah doesn't have +10M units missing, i don't see how she has more units or any stats backing up that claim. 

[suburbannature]

@Feanor and you're not even correct with that half-assed point because AIWFCIY had the points for #1 in 2005 but was not eligible at the time (topped digital charts and peaked on radio). 

[Feanor]

1 minute ago, suburbannature said:

It's not a pivot. You made a desperate yet transparent implication that a large portion of her success (namely that diamnd album) was contingent on a skewed SPS formula when she achieved exponentially more in the physical era. 60-70 million albums, 80+ weeks at #1, two Diamond albums. 

 

Let's revisit my comment:

Quote

So it's high time to leave behind this bitterness over streaming and SPS units, especially when they have also been incredibly kind to Mariah and are basically the reason why MC reached Diamond-eligibilty and why AIWFCIY has become an annual chart topper.

I don't know what kind of paranoia you have, but nowhere does this post have any sort of diminishment of Mariah's success, which other than her Xmas album, is not even referred to here. Is it not a fact that MC has not sold 10M copies in pure sales in the US? So it factually wouldn't have been eligible for Diamond if the RIAA had not included streams to their certifications. Why are you losing it over me sharing these factual statements in a normal and rational manner?

 

 

 And as for AIWFCIY…

 

1 minute ago, suburbannature said:

It didn't become a #1 until after streaming era kicked off because it wasn't eligible to chart in the early 2010s and has continued to grow organically for years.

So… 

AIWFCIY in the digital era, before streaming took over (even with it being allowed to chart on the H100): No #1 peak

AIWFCIY after streaming became dominant force of music consumption: #1 peak

 

We don't deal with ifs and buts here, AIWFCIY became a #1 chart topper after streaming took off, which is sentiment you and I share, so no need to split hairs over a common agreement  

 

 

1 minute ago, suburbannature said:

 

I know that's not a word you would be familiar with. You think the streaming era is what made AIWFCIY a classic when it had been for two decades prior to it reaching #1?  

Quote

suburbannature when things don't go his way: Makes up false statements that were never said or implied by the person he's accusing.

 

 

[suburbannature]

1 minute ago, Artistofthedecade said:

Taylor - 81M units (as multiple posts stated) 

Mariah - 74M certified albums 

 

Taylor will end next week with almost 83M units so as long as Mariah doesn't have +10M units missing, i don't see how she has more units or any stats backing up that claim. 

Your own stans said 75 using every source including Uk Mix and Mariah is eligible for a handful of album certs including Merry Christmas diamond (which alone puts her at 76).

[suburbannature]

Just now, Feanor said:

 

Let's revisit my comment:

I don't know what kind of paranoia you have, but nowhere does this post have any sort of diminishment of Mariah's success, which other than her Xmas album, is not even referred to here. Is it not a fact that MC has not sold 10M copies in pure sales in the US? So it factually wouldn't have been eligible for Diamond if the RIAA had not included streams to their certifications. Why are you losing it over me sharing these factual statements in a normal and rational manner?

 

 

 And as for AIWFCIY…

 

So… 

AIWFCIY in the digital era, before streaming took over (even with it being allowed to chart on the H100): No #1 peak

AIWFCIY after streaming became dominant force of music consumption: #1 peak

 

We don't deal with ifs and buts here, AIWFCIY became a #1 chart topper after streaming took off, which is sentiment you and I share, so no need to split hairs over a common agreement  

 

 

 

 

It doesn't seem like logic is your strong suit, love. AIWFCIY would have topped the charts or have been top 2 at the very least 14 years before it did solely because of rule ineligiblity. You attempted to shoehorn a point and it didn't work. 

[Ger]

Back to the main purpose of this thread, which is difficult to remember, not everyone can...

 

 

[Feanor]

1 minute ago, suburbannature said:

@Feanor and you're not even correct with that half-assed point because AIWFCIY had the points for #1 in 2005 but was not eligible at the time (topped digital charts and peaked on radio). 

Honey.mp3 we are not using ifs and buts [2] or alternative scenarios.

 

AIWFCIY only reached #1 in the streaming era, that is the official course of history, and something I pointed out in my original post, but it's bothering you for some reason.

 

[Wolf Alice]

1 minute ago, Ger-55 said:

Back to the main purpose of this thread, which is difficult to remember, not everyone can...

 

 

ANTI HERO Week 53