discussion Is It Immoral To Buy Sex?

[jediah556]

Just now, Cain said:

I feel the same about people trying to ‘trick’ people into having sex with them when alcohol is involved or pushing them etc

yeah that's skeezy and considered sexual assault, that's definitely not the same convo imo 

[Redstreak]

4 minutes ago, jediah556 said:

what are you even talking about, sex work gets NO virtue signaling and this entire thread is proof of that ijbol 

Is this a joke? Bahd Barbie was on OF literally the day she turned 18 with tons of people screaming get 👏 that 👏 bag👏

[jediah556]

Just now, Redstreak said:

Is this a joke? Bahd Barbie was on OF literally the day she turned 18 with tons of people screaming get 👏 that 👏 bag👏

we aren't talking about onlyfans tho - we were mostly talking about actual physical sex work in the real world. and a lot of people talking about bhad bhabie was doing that in a VERY predatory manner from the perspective of "freshly 18 girl" 

[Sheep]

3 minutes ago, jediah556 said:

The number keeps growing too. I'm so glad my username is different here, ATRL is messy but that place was the PITS

[Karla Cabello]

i think what is more immoral is that sex workers are one of the most marginalized groups of work, they dont have insurance, they dont have protection, they cant form a union and their work is criminalized

Edited October 11, 2023 by Karla Cabello

[GraceRandolph]

28 minutes ago, The Man Who said:

It’s not really sad, for some people sex is just sex and it doesn’t have to lead to a deeper connection. Not everybody views sex as this big connecting of souls. It’s basically the same as people who have one night stands. It was just about the sex.

 

My friend who used to do escorting actually enjoyed his job and enjoyed being intimate with somebody but he just didn’t want to be in a relationship. I don’t think he ever set out to be an escort, it was just an opportunity that came along, so he tried it out and liked it.
 

He was earning a lot more money than he did in his normal 9-5 and doing less hours whilst being paid to go on dates and holidays. Not all of his clients wanted sex, some of them just liked his company, but because he was a pretty horny guy, he didn’t mind the ones that did want sex. 

It sounds like your friend might’ve had a kink for this or something, but he also had other employment options, but not everyone does. 

[DAP]

52 minutes ago, jediah556 said:

now where did I say it was a necessity. please highlight that for me 

 

also, just because the majority of sex workers are poor woc does not mean that the industry is inherently predatory or problematic. it can oftentimes turn into that, and in present day that is the majority of the sex industry, but keep in mind that the majority of workers that stock the shelves in a walmart, clean the floors at a school, etc. are ALSO poor people of color....does that mean it's immoral to buy their labor?

What is immoral is they sell their labor under terms that are coercive. The janitors cleaning the schools and Walmart employees either have no autonomy or had have it reduced against their employers, the threat of discipline at attempts to organize is real and severe, and that is why they are exploited. Now the context is a little different for sex work because consumers are a disempowered mass, unlike employers, so the dynamics of power aren’t completely the same. But since sex workers are marginalized even further, they are still significant. It is something that should be talked about because the majority of sex workers aren’t making a lot of money, let alone the kind of fast money you see the big OnlyFans porn stars make.

[Tsareena]

in a vacuum I don't think it's immoral but sex work as an industry can be very exploitative. To me if consenting adults want to participate that's not my business. I don't see it differently from making/ consuming adult videos or other forms of commodified sex. Obviously once either party can't consent then that's out of the window and is wrong.

[Bloo]

No. It’s fine. It’s one thing to not find it appealing, makes sense. But why would that make it immoral?

[CokeDestroyer]

As someone who has dated a f*ndom guy before (and yes he was the one to initiate the relationship,) he talked about how theres a BIG diff in how he and his mates deal w/ clients vs their so's

 

3 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said:

It sounds like your friend might’ve had a kink for this or something, but he also had other employment options, but not everyone does. 

 

ALSO ETHAN IF U SEE THIS I STOLE ALL UR HOODIES U TWIT U NEVER COOKED BREAKFAST AT ALL PERIOD SO IK U DASURB DIS. 

[uusagii]

Yes!

[GraceRandolph]

1 minute ago, Bloo said:

No. It’s fine. It’s one thing to not find it appealing, makes sense. But why would that make it immoral?

Because unlike other forms of wage labor under capitalism where the employer combines your labor power with a service to create a new commodity, in sex work your sexual service is not the only commodity, but your body itself is commodified. The power struggle plays itself out over your body, with the buyer wanting the most from you, and you wanting to reserve your energy for other clients which results in violations of boundaries or exploitation in most cases, especially when sex workers are financially disadvantaged which many are. Exploitation is always wrong, but sexual exploitation carries more trauma for many people. 

[spree]

no such thing as "immoral".  That term is rooted in man-made religion.  Sex is such taboo, and yet EVERYONE has it.  It's so twisted. 

[jediah556]

5 minutes ago, DAP said:

What is immoral is they sell their labor under terms that are coercive. The janitors cleaning the schools and Walmart employees either have no autonomy or had have it reduced against their employers, the threat of discipline at attempts to organize is real and severe, and that is why they are exploited. Now the context is a little different for sex work because consumers are a disempowered mass, unlike employers, so the dynamics of power aren’t completely the same. But since sex workers are marginalized even further, they are still significant. It is something that should be talked about because the majority of sex workers aren’t making a lot of money, let alone the kind of fast money you see the big OnlyFans porn stars make.

unfortunately we're all exploited under capitalism I do agree, but that puts everyone on the same playing field when it comes to the morality of the sale of their labor imo 

[The Man Who]

2 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said:

It sounds like your friend might’ve had a kink for this or something, but he also had other employment options, but not everyone does. 

“A kink”

 

Why is my friend being a sex worker reduced to him having a ‘kink’ - it seems like you have an issue with people buying and selling to be honest. 

 

I also don’t know why you’re bringing up the fact he had other employment options, what does that have to do with your original post? Are we talking about sex workers whose services are completely consensual (like my friend) or are we talking about people that are forced into selling sex? Because they’re not the same thing. 

 

 

[GraceRandolph]

2 minutes ago, spree said:

no such thing as "immoral".  That term is rooted in man-made religion.  Sex is such taboo, and yet EVERYONE has it.  It's so twisted. 

Morality is found in many philosophies across the globe. Let’s not assume having morals is necessarily religious. We can have secular morals as well. 

[ForgottenSoul]

Nope as long as you respect the person you're with I don't see the issue. Some people are quite insecure and buying it might make them feel more comfortable and get over a hurdle etc.. 

 

I think a big grey area is consent and hopefully the person your having sex with wants to do this type of job and is not being forced. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by ForgottenSoul

[CokeDestroyer]

7 minutes ago, CokeDestroyer said:

As someone who has dated a f*ndom guy before (and yes he was the one to initiate the relationship,) he talked about how theres a BIG diff in how he and his mates deal w/ clients vs their so's

 

 

ALSO ETHAN IF U SEE THIS I STOLE ALL UR HOODIES U TWIT U NEVER COOKED BREAKFAST AT ALL PERIOD SO IK U DASURB DIS. 

Oh to add to this i aint agreeing btw (i actually dont at all rip,) but like. My ex and his buds would have a noticable noticable register shift (both in syntax and tone,) when talking to/about mates vs clients so 

[Sheep]

2 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said:

Morality is found in many philosophies across the globe. Let’s not assume having morals is necessarily religious. We can have secular morals as well. 

and you're sure its a secular moral compass telling you that it's wrong to both sell or buy sex in scenarios completely free of exploitation? Seems like you might have a projecting kinks onto people kink instead. 

[Bloo]

1 hour ago, GraceRandolph said:

Because unlike other forms of wage labor under capitalism where the employer combines your labor power with a service to create a new commodity, in sex work your sexual service is not the only commodity, but your body itself is commodified. The power struggle plays itself out over your body, with the buyer wanting the most from you, and you wanting to reserve your energy for other clients which results in violations of boundaries or exploitation in most cases, especially when sex workers are financially disadvantaged which many are. Exploitation is always wrong, but sexual exploitation carries more trauma for many people. 

If sex work is legalized and people have other economic opportunities, then that’s how you eliminate exploitation in sex work. Not by just ruling it immoral which then pushes it to stay illegal, which keeps it underground and makes sex workers more at risk of exploitation. 
 

Also, we’re all exploited to some extent under capitalism. How is a construction worker who suffers of paraplegia because of being pushed too hard more moral than sex work?

[GraceRandolph]

4 minutes ago, The Man Who said:

“A kink”

 

Why is my friend being a sex worker reduced to him having a ‘kink’ - it seems like you have an issue with people buying and selling to be honest. 

 

I also don’t know why you’re bringing up the fact he had other employment options, what does that have to do with your original post? Are we talking about sex workers whose services are completely consensual (like my friend) or are we talking about people that are forced into selling sex? Because they’re not the same thing. 

 

 

You are using your friends experience as a sex worker to justify sex buying when he is one of the more privileged in the sex trade with employment options, enjoyment in his work, and a client base that likely doesn’t have a physical upper hand over him. 

[GraceRandolph]

1 minute ago, Bloo said:

If sex work is legalized and people have other economic opportunities, then that’s how you eliminate sex work. Not by just ruling it immoral which then pushes it to stay illegal, which keeps it underground and makes sex workers more at risk of exploitation. 

Yes, legalization could be positive, but not without making other employment options available. 

[jediah556]

2 minutes ago, Bloo said:

If sex work is legalized and people have other economic opportunities, then that’s how you eliminate sex work. Not by just ruling it immoral which then pushes it to stay illegal, which keeps it underground and makes sex workers more at risk of exploitation. 
 

Also, we’re all exploited to some extent under capitalism. How is a construction worker who suffers of paraplegia because of being pushed too hard more moral than sex work?

finally some sense!

[Inner Beauty]

1 minute ago, jediah556 said:

we aren't talking about onlyfans tho - we were mostly talking about actual physical sex work in the real world. and a lot of people talking about bhad bhabie was doing that in a VERY predatory manner from the perspective of "freshly 18 girl" 

If we're talking about actual physical sex work in the real world - of the estimated 40+ million prostitutes in the world, 75% are between the ages of 13 and 25. Many of whom are literal children, or extremely young adults, who have been coerced into the sex trade either by literal physical force, or by coercive economic conditions. The men who buy sex from these prostitutes, who comprise the vast majority of transactions in which sex is bought, are acting in a very predatory manner, too, are they not?

 

There's this very sunshine and rainbows conception of sex work that liberals seem to have that is very out of touch with the actual reality of the sex trade and prostitution. The arguments in favor of sex buying tend to decontextualize how the vast majority of people in the sex trade are pressured into it by economic and social forces and have no way to exit, in favor of focusing all their attention on the very small minority of sex workers who by virtue of their class privilege are free to stop at any time.

 

To quote an actual former prostitute:

"As a prostitute that was raped well over the amounts of times I can count on my two hands, I can clearly explain how I both experienced rape and how none of the sex I had as a prostitute was truly consensual because of the conditions which forced me to enter and trapped me in prostitution. Prostitution thrives off vulnerability. The buyer knows this, and therefore uses his money to coerce women in vulnerable social and economic positions to get off. That is why prostitution, like other forms of rape, is not just about sex or money but about power."

[Fleahive]

Does it count as buying sex if you hook up with someone and the next day they ask to borrow cash but don’t give it back?