celeb news Grimes shares IG post about propaganda, Palestinians and Israelis

[Riverbank]

Most decent take she's had in a while tbh

[UnderratedVocalist]

I don't like her but she's absolutely right. If you are a real, decent human being with an actual heart, this is the mentality you should have in regard to this war.

[Stankonia]

As if propaganda is on Palestine's side right now

[Communion]

You can't empathize with Palestinians while supporting what amount to Jim Crow laws and an exterminationist government like Israel that believes in ethnicity quotas with regards to population. 

 

How can you empathize with Palestinian refugees while believing Israel holds the right ethnically cleanse them from their homes?

 

The ideological root of Zionism that forms the governing philosophy for the state of Israel is that Palestinians must continue to be purged and cleansed from the land to ensure an artificial Israeli majority. You cannot both empathize with the idea of an artificial ethno-state and the people who are removed from the land to maintain said artificial majority. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Communion

[Relampago.]

I mean, yeah no innocent civilians should be killed at the hands of a terrorist organization or an oppressive regime committed to genocide. Anyone taking a 100% on one side approach is obviously wrong but most people aren’t.

 

We have to ask ourselves why this is now big news. Palestinians have been slaughtered for decades now, and only now are people starting to care because Israeli civilians are dying. Both are awful, but it’s even more awful that we ignored literal genocide (that the US and other western countries have a part in!) and are now sounding the alarms because there was retaliation against Israel. 

 

Like… that’s kind of the definition of the propaganda she’s talking about, and yet I can’t help but think about how this post was prompted by Israeli citizens dying, but it was crickets for Palestinians. So I agree, but the timing will never not be suspicious to me, coming from Grimes, Kylie Jenner, Jamie Lee Curtis or whoever else claims to be both sidesing this.

[Rebel Lion]

1 minute ago, Communion said:

You can't empathize with Palestinians while supporting what amount to Jim Crow laws and an externinationist government that believes in ethnicity quotas with regards to population. 

 

How can you empathize with Palestinian refugees while believing Israel holds the right ethnically cleanse them from their homes?

I think she means Israeli citizens, not the Israel government.

[Bloodflowers.]

Let me stream "We Appreciate Power" real quick

[airplane]

18 minutes ago, Rebel Lion said:

Hamas wants to eradicate the Jewish people even at the cost of Palestinians dying.

Omg you need to stop being a hypocrite like the IDF didn’t just say that they would strike Gaza even if they lose their hostages in the process.

[Communion]

3 minutes ago, Rebel Lion said:

I think she means Israeli citizens, not the Israel government.

Do Israeli citizens empathize with the Palestinians being subjugated in their name? Are Israeli citizens taking to the streets and calling for Palestinians to have the right of return and the end of apartheid?

Edited October 9, 2023 by Communion

[Rebel Lion]

Just now, Communion said:

Do Israeli citizens emphasize with the Palestinians being subjugated in their name? Are Israeli citizens taking to the streets and calling for Palestinians to have the right of return and the end of apartheid?

Yes. It's just not show in the media. And it's not cute to generalize all Israelis like that. Enjoy your WP

Edited October 9, 2023 by Rebel Lion

[Rebel Lion]

2 minutes ago, airplane said:

Omg you need to stop being a hypocrite like the IDF didn’t just say that they would strike Gaza even if they lose their hostages in the process.

Well that's what Hamas said last time until there was an agreement to cease fire from both sides. Also I don't see any demands from Hamas. Seems like they're carrying out their plans from last time.

[i spit on haters]

30 minutes ago, Rebel Lion said:

Completely agree with her on this.

No you don't. Shut up. 

[sweetblindness]

[Communion]

1 minute ago, Rebel Lion said:

Yes. It's just not show in the media. And it's not cute to generalize all Israelis like that. Enjoy your WP

It's generalizing to say that the Israeli government subjugates Palestinians for the benefit of Israeli citizens?

 

When Israel bulldozes down Palestinian homes, who gets offered to own and live in the new settlements built in their place?

 

Of course a citizen could reject said offer, and doing so would be a sign of solidarity, similarly to refusing to serve in the IDF. And I'm sure there's many progressive Israelis who do so and feel so. But the government of Israel is also indeed a far right one and the dehumanization of Palestinians is rampant within Israel. 

 

I asked a very simple question whose answer would illuminate the political pulse in Israel: up until this week, was there any meaningful movement calling for not just the easing of apartheid now that the government has radicalized further right but to allow the UN mandated right of return? Yes or no?

[BletaRexher]

I was so scared to open this based off the title but she finally doesn’t sound like an idiot for once

[Relampago.]

1 minute ago, Communion said:

Do Israeli citizens emphasize with the Palestinians being subjugated in their name? Are Israeli citizens taking to the streets and calling for Palestinians to have the right of return and the end of apartheid?

..Surely you’re not villainizing an entire country love?  There is/was a growing distaste for Netanyahu and his government, particularly among young Israeli citizens. Obviously this is not going to help that movement, but who knows. 

 

Did Russians citizens take to the streets to stop Putin from the invasion of Ukraine? Did Chinese citizens take to the streets to end the genocide of Uyghurs in concentration camps? Did US citizens take to the streets to protest the War on Terror right after 9/11? Generally, no. But I don’t think these countries are a whole evil monolith that should be wiped off the map either. 

 

Obviously this is a result of Israel’s illegal occupation and genocide of Palestinians, so this retaliation was bound to happen and a consequence of decades of violence towards Palestinians. But to blame, and partially justify the slaughter of Israeli citizens is.. not helpful. There’s no way to justify the death of innocents, especially not to “ha, gotcha!” in an internet debate.

[brooklyndaddy]

26 minutes ago, Communion said:

Do Israeli citizens empathize with the Palestinians being subjugated in their name? Are Israeli citizens taking to the streets and calling for Palestinians to have the right of return and the end of apartheid?

Does that mean the Israeli citizens should be killed too though? How about we don’t advocate for anybody getting murdered! Israel is an oppressive aggressor… yes. We know this. 

[Communion]

8 minutes ago, Relampago. said:

..Surely you’re not villainizing an entire country love? 

Of course not, and any reading of the post you quoted that walks away with the conclusion you're alluding to would have to be due to someone not being able to follow quoted posts or is simply acting in bad faith, which is probably why the random attempt to report the post by whoever did so didn't work. 

 

My post is very clear. Going "well I wanna talk about the Israeli citizens, not the Israeli government" is an incoherent reply to the statement of where Palestinian suffering originates from.

 

Empathy is nice but it means nothing if the material source of the suffering is not addressed. Palestinians suffer being the Israeli government is objectively genocidal and pursuing ethnic cleansing. So if people empathize with Palestinians, what material action is being done to stop the Israeli government? A call to action by Israeli citizens? Condemnation by the international community and its leaders? The US conditioning its aid to Israel to end the human rights violations done by the country it finances? No? None of these? Even before this week?

 

Then where's the empathy? How actually bad does anyone feel for Palestinians if their continued subjugation is accepted as part of what has to happen in Israel's right to remain an ethno-state?

[Relampago.]

3 minutes ago, Communion said:

Of course not, and any reading of the post you quoted that walks away with the conclusion you're alluding to would have to be due to someone not being able to follow quoted posts or is simply acting in bad faith, which is probably why the random attempt to report the post by whoever did so didn't work. 

 

My post is very clear. Going "well I wanna talk about the Israeli citizens, not the Israeli government" is an incoherent reply to the statement of where Palestinian suffering originates from.

 

Empathy is nice but it means nothing if the material source of the suffering is not addressed. Palestinians suffer being the Israeli government is objectively genocidal and pursuing ethnic cleansing. So if people empathize with Palestinians, what material action is being done to stop the Israeli government? A call to action by Israeli citizens? Condemnation by the international community and its leaders? The US conditioning its aid to Israel to end the human rights violations done by the country it finances? No? None of these? Even before this week?

 

Then where's the empathy? How actually bad does anyone feel for Palestinians if their continued subjugation is accepted as part of what has to happen in Israel's right to remain an ethno-state?

Okay, yeah, I agree with this. I figured you weren’t advocating for the genocide of Israelis while advocating against the genocide that’s affected Palestinians for near a century now. It did read to me like a call for a “fight fire with fire” approach, in the sense that Israeli citizens should suffer for their evil government because they didn’t stop them themselves.

 

I agree with this clarification though. Anyone trying to sympathize with Israeli citizens but highlight the hundreds of their casualties compared to the tens of thousands are being disingenuous.

 

And before anyone tries it too, there’s a fine line between being anti-semitic and anti-zionist. Israel as a state cannot exist as in without the displacement and genocide of Palestinians, the sooner people in the West realize this and stop seeing Palestinian casualities and victims as meaningless fodder on the path to peace for Israel and only Israel, the sooner a solution can be reached. 

[kataraqueen]

She should quickly write some music while she's still in this post-nut-clarity-esque mindset

[besaid]

6 hours ago, DAP said:

We can empathize with civilians and acknowledge that the dynamics of power between Israel and Palestine are not equivalent. Hamas inflicting violence does not make the Israeli state any less of the aggressor that it has been in this struggle for the past 80 years and no amount of trivializing its role will make it so.

Holding Hamas to the ultimate account for what it has done and what it has been doing for years and standing with the victims i snot "trivializing" anyones role, but ok.

Edited October 10, 2023 by besaid

[besaid]

6 hours ago, Rebel Lion said:

I think she means Israeli citizens, not the Israel government.

That person you're quoting doesn't make difference between the Israeli people, the Israeli government or even just Jewish people from America on vacation in Israel. A rather extremist and dangerous attitude to have and shocking its allowed on this forum.

[DAP]

7 minutes ago, besaid said:

Holding Hamas to the ultimate account for what it has done and what it has been doing for years and standing with the victims i snot "trivializing" anyones role, but ok.

No but deflecting from the root cause of this struggle is. Especially considering how and why Hamas exists as it does today—that itself is probably one of the biggest indictments of Israel’s role as the aggressor.

[50thStateofMind]

Anyone who thinks there is a “right” and “wrong” side here are literally not intelligent, I’m sorry. 

[CroNich]

On 10/10/2023 at 7:14 AM, KatyPrismSpirit said:

One group is currently resisting an oppressive regime and making attempts in decolonization tho. So while there are innocent victims in both territories, the fight that is ongoing is ultimately rooted in Palestinians resisting zionism and genocide that has been ongoing for 80 years. That really doesn't make it a valid comparison. Especially considering the fact that the Palestinian death toll has been around 15 times higher than the Israeli death toll during the last 15 years of this Israel-Palestine conflict (UN data). And this isn't even taking into consideration the very sheer, inhumane living conditions the Israel government has let Palestinians live in as well.

 

Equalizing the Palestinian trauma with Israelis now that both sides are attacking just showcases both the hypocrisy of the media and actually shows you that YOU are the one brainwashed (or you are just a racist who doesn't care about the blood arabs shed)

 

This 100%. If we’re going to talk about propaganda in this situation, let’s discuss how all western mainstream media are painting Israel as the victims and Palestine as the aggressors when historically it’s always been the other way around.